Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?

[Marybeloved]

Yes Muslims and Christians worship the same God, but Muslims are not descendants of Ishmael and Abraham, they claim to be, but there is no historical precedence for this. Second, Islam is not revealed by God, there are too many contradictions with Judaism and Christianity for it to be so, and all the elements it has from Christianity are from heretical sects like the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas which is the basis for their nativity narration. So what is the conclusion? Either Muhammad was possessed by Satan or he made the whole thing up, there is no other way. On that note, Islamic Heaven seems to be Satanic in origin, it is nothing more than an orgy, complete with an Islamic brothel where men can choose from virgins or males to engage in sexual deviancy. After they die, good Muslims are rewarded with 72 virgins and 28 young boys to have at their leisure.

Hallo, Discipulo!

Actually, there is a third explanation. Perhaps Mohammed was both innocent of deliberate deception or demonic visitations. Perhaps he was schizophrenic! Have you ever seen this movie-* ‘A Beautiful Mind’*?. It’s the True story of a Genius who suffered from Schizophrenia for years before anyone discovered it. Perhaps Mohammed did “see” a being who spoke to him and said all the things Mohammed claimed…except that what he saw was a projection of his own mind! Aspects of himself that he couldn’t differentiate from reality. If you haven’t seen the movie, go see it- It’s eye opening!

‘The personalities’ that the schizophrenic sees are so powerful and convincing! As real as anything else he sees in the world and he can’t separate projections of his own mind from reality. And not just the ‘personalities’ but the experiences and adventures he goes through are so real and vivid to the schizophrenic, that you can’t convince him they are not real. Worst of all, he will live with them for years without anyone ever having a clue about it, and basically believing the schizophrenic’s stories for the simple reason that… well… they are not really lies! So you can’t catch him switching stories, feeling guilty, or otherwise showing any signs of deception- He is utterly convinced himself! Until something happens that clearly shows he believes unreal things, and then psychiatrists are involved.

The adventures that the schizophrenic “picks” for himself are also such that give him a very central and very important and indispensable role in the grand scheme of things. In the movie, the schizophrenic (a Princeton/MIT Genius) believed he worked for a top secret department of the Pentagon, where he deciphered hidden ‘codes’ of the enemy’s messages to its agents in the common newspapers (it was during the cold war). His wife believed this for years! He even “attended” meetings, was “visited” by and “conversed” with his “immediate boss” countless times, even narrowly escaped his ‘enemies’ “pursuits” a few times as well an “attempted shooting” once!

Now imagine the Schizophrenic lives in 7th Century Arabia without the benefit of modern Psychiatry, in an environment rife with superstitions of all kinds. Imagine that the Schizophrenic is ‘visited’ by “an angel” rather than approached by Pentagon Top Secret Personnel, He’s given the job of ‘a Prophet’ rather than a Top secret code-decipher-er, He does this job faithfully for years, delivering poetic verses (always in response to his circumstances- never in anticipation of future circumstances, by the way). He has fantastic adventures where he travels on a very special type of horse/bird/animal/creature to Heaven and Hell, Jerusalem, and witnesses all these amazing things!!! He even travels to the very edge of the universe where (as I understand it) he apparently witnesses the sun set into a muddy hole). Many people believe him, though not one single person apart from the schizophrenic ever sees/witnesses any of these things! (Once, during one of this alleged “adventures”, his own wife testifies that he never left their bedroom! ). Now, remember, this is 7th Century Arabia, not MIT in the 20th Century! as it was in “A beautiful Mind”. And the man is very very convincing, because he himself is completely sold!

PS- The Heaven doesn’t necessarily show demonic activity, but much more the vivid imagination of a very carnal man.

Now what do you make of my theory? Far fetched??- Let me know.

Peace!

 

[Discipulo]

I think that there is Biblical evidence for Arabs being the descendants of Ishmael, and genetic evidence that Jews and Arabs are closely related.

I stand corrected, The book of Jubilees places the location and identity of the Ishmaelites as the Arab peoples residing in Arab territories.

On the one level, the logic is sound, but on the other it does not account for the advances toward God that descendants of the ‘wild donkey’ Ishmael have made under Islam.

I tend to see things that way that Salim Mansur has expressed it that Mohammed introduced the God of the Bible to the descendants and the conquested peoples of the sons of Ishamel. To the extent that the wisdom of the Bible and the traditions of Judaism and Christianity have been rejected by these sons of Ishmael, the Islamists have strayed from God too.
I think that there is a lesson in that for us Christians too, when it comes to our relationship with the Jews.

This is perfectly valid, sin has blinded the Jews from recognizing the Messiah, and Satan has seemed to have blinded the Ishmaelites as well with Islam.

 

[apfrita]

THE catechism (no matter what you think) states that GOd does have a plan of salvation for the Muslims . They worship the Father in the trinity whether they know it or not . There are three divine persons in the trinity (Matt 28:19) They worship the first divine person as the Jews do . GOd the father is who they worship . They believe that the Torah and the Gospels are corrupt yes and also believe that the Quran is the perfection and last revelation. Either the Devil came to Muhammad or he made it up . The Quran is false and everyone in their right mind that has read it knows it . Still does not change the fact that they worship the same part of God as the Jews do. Hopefully this was not too deep for you .

The Catechism only says that Muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham, meaning the same God the Father that Christians worship and the Jews worship. But it does not make any statement on what they profess is true or not. For Muslims the most important person is Muhammed who claims that Jesus is a true prophet only and not God’s Son. Since Jesus himself said that he is God and that is there in the gospels very clearly, so by going against this fact, Muhammed makes Jesus a false prophet and still he calls him true - a very big contradiction. Any person who understands even a bit about human logic can easily catch this.

The Jews on the other hand rejected Jesus fully, they don’t even consider him as a prophet because according to their canon of Scripture, the last prophet was Malachi who lived few centuries before Jesus. So the Jews did not accept the revelation of God that Jesus gave so they are stuck to the revelation of God the Father only. Since Jesus calls the God of the Jews as his Father, he does not contradict the Jews.

Logical conclusion:

1. The Christians do not contradict the Jews. They only add more revelation to the revelation of God to the Jews
2. The Muslims fully contradict the Christians. So if they claim that they worship the same God as the Christians they are wrong. At best their God must have to be a different God to avoid the above said contradiction.

But Yes, God does have a plan for the salvation of the Muslims like he has a plan for the salvation of every other human being and that plan is for them to either accept Jesus as the only means of salvation and be saved or reject him and be condemned (Read John 3:17-21 given below for quick reference from the NRSV)

*17 ‘Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed. 21But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.’ **

 

[MorningSong51]

Let us say that once upon a time, there were two tribes who lived in different lands and had different cultures but both of them worshiped the Sun.

One day, while on a hunting expedition, the two tribes met and eventually discussed about what they believed.

Tribe A said to Tribe B “Our Sun is your Sun”.

But Tribe B said “The Moon is the child of the Sun”

Tribe A however argued that the Sun has no child.

Tribe B replied “The Moon is the child who the Sun sacrificed in order to atone for the sins of all of the people who lived on Earth”.

Tribe A however said “The Sun does not need to sacrifice anything at all because it is always ready to forgive the sins of all of the people it shines it’s light on”.

Unfortunately, these two tribes could not agree on whether or not the Moon is really the child of the Sun… but the good news is that they did agree that they both worshiped the same Sun.

And so you see, this seeming “contradiction” between the different belief of two faiths is actually very simple to understand once you view it in it’s proper perspective.

Hi Hamba2han,

Very nice simile – even with the once upon a time. However, I think, you can sometimes lose the reader with an explanations that is too simplistic (oversimplifying) as you can with over complicating the message.

There’s a metaphor about the bitter waters of Merrah, Moses cried out to the Lord, and the Lord showed him a tree, so he cut down a palm-tree and tossing it into bitter water, and the made the water sweet but on another note, in the story of Elisa - II Kings 2:19– 22—the residents of Jericho confided to Elisha that their city was a pleasant place to live, but the water was “naught.” Elisha went to the city’s springs, where he cast “salt” into water. The waters were thus healed “unto this day.”

So the opposite effect, one was made more palatable to drink, fresh and less bitter, by casting a tree into the water - sweetness and in the other, salt has the power to alter whatever it touches…healing, this being very symbolic to the Word of God, even the bitter soul becomes sweeten by the Word of God, “Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.” - as Salt, can be described as being purifying – “but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with each other.” Mark 9:50

This explanation wasn’t so complicated to understand even when God purifies ourselves through the hearing of His word, it allows us to be transformed- God’s word sweeten the soul. What happened afterwards in Exodus, God gave Moses the statute and law, and there did he test him and in ending statement " for I am the Lord your healer."

The whole point to this post is what one can take in and accept (and grasp) between the two faiths – giving your example of the sun and moon as one illustration, to differentiate belief of the two tribes – the moon is a reflection of the sun, as it give off light even to the stars, but initial it reflect off the Sun. The sun is not only much larger than the moon, as to its size, additionally, it generates its own light. In other words, and the verse that comes to mine, "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.” Normally if or when you read from both the Old and the New Testament, you would know that the differences between the two, as one shines its lights onto the other, is more than how you describe it.

 

[Marybeloved]

Originally Posted by Darryl1958
I think that there is Biblical evidence for Arabs being the descendants of Ishmael, and genetic evidence that Jews and Arabs are closely related.

And

I stand corrected, The book of Jubilees places the location and identity of the Ishmaelites as the Arab peoples residing in Arab territories.

Well, I actually I find none of this convincing. Arabs and Jews are Semites, of course they are genetically related. Doesn’t mean Arabs are Ishmael’s descendants. The Semites are a large group of people of Middle Eastern origin with a common ancestry and similar languages consisting of ,many many groups, (some have disappeared) not just Hebrews and Arabs. See the Wikipedia page on the subject en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic#Ethnicity_and_race

In particular,this paragraph is informative:

*In contrast, some recent genetic studies found that analysis of the DNA of Semitic-speaking peoples suggests that they have some common ancestry. Though no significant common mitochondrial results have been yielded, Y-chromosomal links between Semitic-speaking Near-Eastern peoples like Arabs, Hebrews and Assyrians have proved fruitful, despite differences contributed from other groups (see Y-chromosomal Aaron). The studies attribute this correlation to a common Near Eastern origin, since Semitic-speaking Near Easterners from the Fertile Crescent (including Jews) were found to be more closely related to non-Semitic speaking Near Easterners (such as Iranians, Anatolians, and Caucasians) than to other Semitic-speakers (such as Gulf Arabs, Ethiopian Semites, and North African Arabs).9][10]
*

Besides, Abraham didn’t fall from the sky, he came from some people in the middle East. And Hagar and Ishmael didn’t live alone…Otherwise Ishmael would have died w/out descendants. Did everyone else (including Abraham’s native people) just die and left room for Ismael’s descendants alone? I don’t think so. That article seems to imply that the gulf Arabs (N.African Arabs as well) and Near- Eastern Arabs have a greater genetic gulf between them than the gulf that exists between Near-Eastern Arabs (+ Jews) and non-Semites!

Perhaps Ishmael’s true descendants are only one particular group among the Arabs or one of the several other Semites, including Ethiopians (Remember, they say the genetic studies are far from over) - It’s not like Ishmael’s descendants kept a record of their ancestry like the Jews did. Why pick the Arabs- Who seem to be a collection of different groups themselves? Just because a member of one of group in this large group of peoples heard the genesis story in the 6th/7th Centuries and claimed that ancestry for his own people in order to legitimize a religion he was starting??

This is perfectly valid, sin has blinded the Jews from recognizing the Messiah, and Satan has seemed to have blinded the Ishmaelites as well with Islam.

It would be valid if Mohammed had shown up in Saudi Arabia before Jesus was born. But to come after Christians have been told that God has spoken once and for all in his son, after they’ve been warned of future false prophets whose chief sign is the very denial of the Christ…No! His message cannot be taken to be valid in the least. Why would God send a “Prophet” after coming to Earth in the flesh, after discontinuing any more Jewish revelations and bringing to an end the worship in the Temple? Most importantly, why would he inspire anyone to reject the entire message that he had come to Earth himself to bring?? This is the work of God’s enemy, not God.

 

[MorningSong51]

No we don’t worship the same God

the God of islam has nothing to do with the real God

however ’ They (muslims) believe that they worship the same God

and we acknowledge that they confess that

but of course that does not mean that our God is theirs

our God said to us to love our enemies

the God of Islam said in 6:40

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone

and in 58:22

You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day having affection for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even if they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred. Those - He has decreed within their hearts faith and supported them with spirit from Him. And We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally. Allah is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him - those are the party of Allah . Unquestionably, the party of Allah - they are the successful.

and of course not only in loving your enemies is the problem but even on what is heaven , and who is God to us for example we call God our Father

while the God of Islam address that showing how confused he is in understanding our teachings

5:18

But the Jews and the Christians say, “We are the children of Allah and His beloved.” Say, “Then why does He punish you for your sins?” Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination

and in 21:17 he confirm what he said

Had We intended to take a diversion, We could have taken it from [what is] with Us - if [indeed] We were to do so

according to islamic commentary like al jalalin and ibn kather Allah means , God can take from the virgins in his host and marry them if he want

and in 6:101 he confirm this again

The Ever-Innovating of the heavens and the earth-however does He have a child, and He has no female companion, and He created everything, and He is Ever-Knowing of everything?

in conclusion , we are not talking about the same God , and this is not the God of Christianity !This is a god goes against the God of the bible

Hi Arabic Catholic,

I really understood your post - really well…

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone

The comment that you posted sounds comparable to a divorce between the two peoples - talaq, the formula of repudiation, three times. The first two times the talaq is pronounced, it may be withdrawn. But the third time it is pronounced, the divorce is irrevocable.

 

[MorningSong51]

You have given a lengthy and rather complex answer to what is basically a very simple question that I had pose i.e. Do Christians worship the God that Abraham (pbuh) worshiped?

If the answer is ‘Yes’, then this means that Christians worship the same God that Muslims worship.

On the other hand, if their answer is ‘No’, then this certainly means that these Christians need to re-evaluate their faith by reading and understanding both the Old and New Testament.

Well actually, even if Christians answer ‘Yes’, they still would need to read and understand everything that both the New and Old Testament teaches regarding the attributes and description of the God that Abraham (pbuh) worshiped.

I think that this question has been answered on another post - and I’m going to give you the first of the complexity between the two:

Originally posted by Marcarios (as I hope they don’t mind me recopying):

I am Orthodox Christian , and I have to say “No” . No I do not worship the same God as Muslims do. I can give several reasons for this. The obvious reason being that God is Trinity, One in Essence and Undivided. Islam Rejects this , in essence the rejection of the Trinity is a rejection of God’s Nature . Muslims reject the Divinity of Christ , I embrace the Divinity of Christ, as well as the Crucifixion.Muslims deny free will. that “allah” is determinate" and that basically according to their “theology” one is a slave to “allah”. these are all aspects of whom God is not . God revealed himself through the Prophets of the Old Testament and then was Incarnated from the Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit. and revealed the fullness of Truth to the Apostles and the Church. This Truth was expounded by the Holy Fathers and the Ecumenical Councils who in their teachings speak Infallibly concerning the Nature of God . Looking at this all then how can one say that God , is the 'allah" mentioned in the Koran or by Muslims? Christ being God (God speaking) said “There will be many who say I am Christ etc” There have been many false prophets since the time of Christ , why then is Mohammed any different? Why would the Archangel Gabriel who came to announce the tidings to the Theotokos and Ever Virgin , then contradict himself by speaking to Mohammed ? If this is all the case then God would be a liar? The Neo Ecumenists would like everyone to believe this is not the case that we worship the same God but all the evidence says otherwise.

and then what I posted - which you thought was lengthy and rather complex answer to what is basically a very simple question that I had pose i.e. Do Christians worship the God that Abraham (pbuh) worshiped?

There is still a break down on divinity points of the mysticism - as to understand that Christians are not getting into areas that are personifying God, but understanding and interpreting scripture as being presented, noting the scriptural text, 11 "Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; and 16 “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.” We understood this in Genesis and in Isaiah 2:3 “the law went forth”…The word of power went forth, much like creation (adding - that the Word of God was the first cause of creation - and that God spoke and creation came into being) . In John 8:42, “I proceed forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but “He” sent me.” Jesus is the anointed flesh and bones which God brought forth to life by His own Holy Spirit - so we understand, as each as being within one God - (adding: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). The mystery of three in One God - This is so illustrated in God’s creation with Adam and Eve, let us make man in “our” own image, God’s image to create wisdom, compassion, mercy, judgment, and the ability for woman to bare children - to create another human being. There are subdivision to each attribute that was listed - yet man was created but Christ was formed - and went forth out of the Mouth of God (which being is the law) In the way creation started, God said and life began, God called - and it was named :

Hamba2han, Abraham believed in the promises that God made and so it was added to his righteousness - it is a matter of what one believes to be the truth and has faith in promises that God made, that being, the road or path to Salvation - as all the nations shall be blessed from Abraham’s seed. So it is rather alarming to ask if a people (the Muslims) believe in the same God. How one shares within the faith and believes to be the truth, one will act on that faith - and how that faith gets interpreted and expressed is a different ball park.
l

 

[MorningSong51]

continue:

Jesus Christ Emptied Himself:

In this self-emptying which profoundly characterizes the truth about Christ, true man, we can say that it re-establishes it and restores it. When we read that the Son “did not regard equality with God something to be grasped,” we cannot but see in these words an allusion to the first and original temptation to which Adam and Eve yielded in the beginning: “You will become (that is, you will be) like God, knowing good and evil” (Gen 3:5). They yielded to the temptation to be like God, even though they were only creatures. He who is God the Son “did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.” In becoming man, “he emptied himself” and by that choice he restored all human beings, however poor and deprived, to their original dignity.

To express this mystery of Christ’s kenosis St. Paul also used another phrase: “He humbled himself.” He used this expression in the context of the reality of the redemption. He wrote that Jesus Christ “humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross” (Phil 2:8). Here Christ’s kenosis is described in its definitive dimension. From the human point of view it is the dimension of the self-emptying by means of his passion and cruel death. From the divine point of view, it is the redemption effected by the merciful love of the Father through the Son, who freely obeyed out of love for the Father and to save humanity. In that moment there was a new beginning of God’s glory in human history, the glory of Christ, his Son made man. The Pauline text says, “Because of this, God greatly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name” (Phil 2:9). LINK - vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19880217en.htm

 

[MorningSong51]

MorningSong51;8395498:

Well yes you are right, but Muslims took it as proper noun.So no one is allowed to take the name Allah because they took it as the name of their God.

Hmmmmm…rain_bow,

In Western countries - is it more common to hear Muslim using the term but in the Arab countries it is widely used. In general, and to quote, “Allah” is simply the Arabic word for “God” - and there is only One God. Let there be no doubt - Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus - peace be upon them all. However, it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims - like Jews - reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation.thereligionislam.com/religiousdialogues/whoisallah.htm

In Iran, Khuda Hafiz (Perso-Arabic: خُدا حافِظ, Devanāgarī: ख़ुदा हाफ़िज़, Eastern Nagari: খ়ুদা হাফ়িজ়)It can be translated as “May God be your Guardian”: Khuda, which is Persian for God (and also an Indo-European cognate of the English word God), and hāfiz from Arabic hifz “protection”. The phrase is a loanword from Persian into the Kurdish, Urdu, Hindi, and Bengali languages. Khuda in Farsi " Persian word for “Lord” or "(monotheistic) God, however, in Persian, Allah means "Eizad

reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khuda_Hafiz

In the Punjab region of India and Pakistan, the phrase Rab Rakha (Punjabi: ਰਬ ਰਖਾ (Gurmukhi), رب رکھا (Shahmukhi), रब रखा (Devanagari)) is also used as a parting phrase and conveys the same meaning, “May God protect you.”

 

[Defender1]

The Catechism only says that Muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham, meaning the same God the Father that Christians worship and the Jews worship. But it does not make any statement on what they profess is true or not. For Muslims the most important person is Muhammed who claims that Jesus is a true prophet only and not God’s Son. Since Jesus himself said that he is God and that is there in the gospels very clearly, so by going against this fact, Muhammed makes Jesus a false prophet and still he calls him true - a very big contradiction. Any person who understands even a bit about human logic can easily catch this.

The Jews on the other hand rejected Jesus fully, they don’t even consider him as a prophet because according to their canon of Scripture, the last prophet was Malachi who lived few centuries before Jesus. So the Jews did not accept the revelation of God that Jesus gave so they are stuck to the revelation of God the Father only. Since Jesus calls the God of the Jews as his Father, he does not contradict the Jews.

Logical conclusion:

1. The Christians do not contradict the Jews. They only add more revelation to the revelation of God to the Jews
2. The Muslims fully contradict the Christians. So if they claim that they worship the same God as the Christians they are wrong. At best their God must have to be a different God to avoid the above said contradiction.

But Yes, God does have a plan for the salvation of the Muslims like he has a plan for the salvation of every other human being and that plan is for them to either accept Jesus as the only means of salvation and be saved or reject him and be condemned (Read John 3:17-21 given below for quick reference from the NRSV)

*17 ‘Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed. 21But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.’ **

FOr Muslims the most important person is ALLAH (GOd in Arabic )The point I am making is that they worship GOd The father (first divine person in the trinity )LEts not go making mountains out of mole hills .

Mohammad confirms that Christ was a prophet but minimizes him to the level of moses and not actual God .

THE Jews reject Christ however still whether they know it or not worship God the Father and Jesus of course does not contradict the Torah .

no need to quote scriptrue I got a steel chamber memory its already there .

I spend a good portion of my time on the computer in debate with muslims from the middle east . I know their Quran in English and when debating an American Muslim and NOI muslims I know it more then they do .

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

I just put this thread in “Hot Topics” for the week.
Don’t make me reget doing it.
Ya’ll are doing fine, just keep it respectful.

 

[twinc]

so then did Gabriel get it wrong and all confused at Lk 1:27,32&37and right at Sura 19 - it seems Luke got his info direct from Mary - so who is more likely to have the correct information - this of course is possible since the Muslims have a Jesus but not the Christian Jesus - they are pro a Jesus but anti Jesus Christ the son of God - so lets enquire if Jesus Christ was not the son of God,who’s son was He and who was His Father,was it Gabriel- This would or should make Him and Mary greater than Mohammed and honoured as such as only Christians do - twinc

 

[Marybeloved]

so then did Gabriel get it wrong and all confused at Lk 1:27,32&37and right at Sura 19 - it seems Luke got his info direct from Mary - so who is more likely to have the correct information - this of course is possible since the Muslims have a Jesus but not the Christian Jesus - they are pro a Jesus but anti Jesus Christ the son of God - so lets enquire if Jesus Christ was not the son of God,who’s son was He and who was His Father,was it Gabriel- This would or should make Him and Mary greater than Mohammed and honoured as such as only Christians do - twinc

Hey Twinc,

Since Discipulo won’t answer my post #180 on page 12, about Mohammed being a possible schizophrenic , would you mind sharing your own thoughts on the… ummh…“theory”?

 

[jakasaki]

so then did Gabriel get it wrong and all confused at Lk 1:27,32&37and right at Sura 19 - it seems Luke got his info direct from Mary - so who is more likely to have the correct information - this of course is possible since the Muslims have a Jesus but not the Christian Jesus - they are pro a Jesus but anti Jesus Christ the son of God - so lets enquire if Jesus Christ was not the son of God,who’s son was He and who was His Father,was it Gabriel- This would or should make Him and Mary greater than Mohammed and honoured as such as only Christians do - twinc

Muslims claim that allah gave them the koran to clarify previous scriptures because man corrupted the Jewish & Christian books.



We can talk/debate about this until we turn blue…

 

[twinc]

Muslims claim that allah gave them the koran to clarify previous scriptures because man corrupted the Jewish & Christian books.



We can talk/debate about this until we turn blue…

you mean Gabriel was correcting Gabriel - but evev if not whose son was He and was He born out of wedlock - even to Muslims He is the word of God and so so greater than Mohammed so why not - twinc

 

[jakasaki]

you mean Gabriel was correcting Gabriel - but evev if not whose son was He and was He born out of wedlock - even to Muslims He is the word of God and so so greater than Mohammed so why not - twinc

Was Gabriel correcting Gabriel …??

I don’t believe so…

As I’ve mentioned before, the “spirit” which “attacked” Mohamad in the cave did not identify itself.

See here in Luke - Gabriel was sent from God to Mary - The very first words out of Gabriel’s mouth was “do not be afraid”…

None of this happened to Mohamad in the cave… And as I’ve mentioned before…

It was Mohamads wife’s uncle who told Mohamad that it was Gabriel…

This uncle was not a witness to the event - so his claim is false…

Luke 1:

26In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,

27to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary.

28And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”c

29But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be.

30And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.

 

[jakasaki]

you mean Gabriel was correcting Gabriel - but evev if not whose son was He and was He born out of wedlock - even to Muslims He is the word of God and so so greater than Mohammed so why not - twinc

I don’t believe muslims think that Jesus whom they call Isa was greater than Mohamad…

He was just a mere human prophet who performed miracles and preached the word of God

To muslims, Mohamad is higher that Isa.

Now… if you continue reading Luke 1:

**31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.

32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,

33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
**

But silly me… You already know Luke 1 as we all know it…!!

 

[twinc]

contd:-

31 - Behold thou shall conceive in thy womb and shall bring forth a son,and thou shall call His name Jesus 32-He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High 35 the Most High shall overshadow thee and therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the son of God - twinc

 

[twinc]

so then did Gabriel get it wrong and all confused at Lk 1:27,32&37and right at Sura 19 - it seems Luke got his info direct from Mary - so who is more likely to have the correct information - this of course is possible since the Muslims have a Jesus but not the Christian Jesus - they are pro a Jesus but anti Jesus Christ the son of God - so lets enquire if Jesus Christ was not the son of God,who’s son was He and who was His Father,was it Gabriel- This would or should make Him and Mary greater than Mohammed and honoured as such as only Christians do - twinc

correction;- LK.1:27,31,32,35 - twinc

 

[apfrita]

FOr Muslims the most important person is ALLAH (GOd in Arabic )The point I am making is that they worship GOd The father (first divine person in the trinity )LEts not go making mountains out of mole hills .

Mohammad confirms that Christ was a prophet but minimizes him to the level of moses and not actual God .

THE Jews reject Christ however still whether they know it or not worship God the Father and Jesus of course does not contradict the Torah .

no need to quote scriptrue I got a steel chamber memory its already there .

I spend a good portion of my time on the computer in debate with muslims from the middle east . I know their Quran in English and when debating an American Muslim and NOI muslims I know it more then they do .

Defender1, please don’t get annoyed that I have quoted John 3: 17-21 in my post. Since the replies to the posts are read by everyone it was for the benefit of those who are not so well versed in Scripture like maybe yourself. Having the Scripture readily given in the post itself has the advantage that you don’t have to go searching for it if you don’t immediately recollect it. Did not intend to be impolite at all.