Do conservative Christian teachings on homosexuality cause hatred and violence against the LGBT community?

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

… but instead of it providing dignity and legitimacy for its members, as it appears to, when looked upon more profoundly, you will find it akin to a “leper community” or a “bulimic community”. It is a community of deceived people living disordered lives and basking in this false self-identity as individual and community.

…

“Secret Catholic”, you could have worded this better.

I don’t know about all bulimics - maybe there are some whose goal is to spiral each other ever downwards - but at least some are gathering together specially to help each other up.

As sexuality by its essence is private, we wouldn’t know who the LBGTs are. However it is others that have told them they are a caste, and I took the OP’s question as based on de facto observation of a group many of whose members may be well willing (i.e not agents provocateurs) deep down in themselves.

Many of the members of such a group which is being made visible are probably like my friend’s 9 (yes that’s a nine) year old, they were told what they were told, they were told it often, and by many people.

The culture and laws of most countries outside India and the fundamental teachings of the Christian faith (by contrast with its practice in some - only some - quarters) oppose the recognition of castes.

 

[RPRPsych]

People who are all to eager to use violence against anyone, even in the name of religion, are just people who are bullies and who have found religion to be an especially useful club to bully others.

Very true. Their religion is a pretext, not a deeply held belief.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

… I’ve seen plenty of Catholics trying to say that unlike fornication homosexuality is intrinsically disordered and therefore a special kind of evil, but the fact is that fornication is also intrinsically disordered and also “unnatural” (in the natural law sense). I’ve also seen Catholics claim that identifying as gay is evil and that gay people have to make themselves not attracted to the same sex via reparative therapy and such.

These are extremely interesting points.

Particularly in regard to the last sentence I think it is an authority problem.

In the authority vacuum that is the Catholic Church together with the prevalent dumbing-down we get in the Catholic Church, someone who should have every right to set up on a web site and state what they want, can’t easily be critiqued and nuanced (shown up) by the rest of us who have not been equipped by a more-watertight, more-comprehensive and more-consistent account of Christian teaching.

There are pockets where it has hung on in a few schools and parishes (well represented among CAF members) but the Catholic faith has been too dumbed down for too long on too wide a scale to survive easily.

On the abuse.wikia.com website dumbing down is listed as a form of psychological manipulation. What was that all about then?

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

… The culture and laws of most countries outside India and the fundamental teachings of the Christian faith (by contrast with its practice in some - only some - quarters) oppose the recognition of castes.

Sorry I should have added: laws of countries opposed … until recently.

 

[philipl]

Hey everyone. I have heard the argument that conservative Christian teachings on homosexuality have contributed to hatred and violence against the LGBT community. Is this true? Please note that I did say “conservative Christian teachings” and not simply “Catholic teachings” because I want to include conservative Protestant beliefs about homosexuality in this discussion as well but I also don’t want Catholic beliefs to be excluded.

But anyway, is it possible to hold a middle ground of condemning the sin of homosexual unchastity and “gay marriage” while not allowing this condemnation to incite hatred and violence against LGBT people?

no

 

[Solmyr]

Don’t be naïve. A person cannot be separated from what he/she practices. To call certain practices unnatural, disgusting, sick, evil, perverted and other such “loving” labels WILL have effects on others. You cannot “wash your hands” and assert that “you were only talking about the practices and not the person”. The phrase “hate the sin, love the sinner” is hypocritical.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

Don’t be naïve. A person cannot be separated from what he/she practices. To call certain practices unnatural, disgusting, sick, evil, perverted and other such “loving” labels WILL have effects on others. You cannot “wash your hands” and assert that “you were only talking about the practices and not the person”. The phrase “hate the sin, love the sinner” is hypocritical.

Eventually we must all say the truth. For instance if your kid gets in a fight, wouldn’t you correct the kid and possibly punish him in some way?

 

[Nixbits]

philipl:

no

There were two questions in the original post that you quoted. To which of these questions does your response relate? Or does your response apply to both?

 

[Nixbits]

JB Brother 4446:

For instance if your kid gets in a fight, wouldn’t you correct the kid and possibly punish him in some way?

If the ‘fight’ was a sporting match between two persons who gave informed consent to the contest, why would you punish them? Or did you think that your analogy was a relevant one taken at face value?

 

[Lea101]

We can safely assume that if Christian teachings accept homosexuality, there would be a lot less hatred against homosexuals/bisexuals/basically anyone in the lgbt community.

However, it’s not the christian teachings, but human nature. It’s the “I’m not gay, but you are. I’m better than you!” mindset.Even if the straight person is battling with fornication. Some people also don’t understand how can one be attracted to the same sex. People hate what they don’t understand

IMO “conservative christian OPINIONS on homosexuality” is more accurate.

 

[truetofaith]

I don’t think Christianity is the cause. I think it is the sickening feeling a heterosexual gets when seeing homosexuals hugging, kissing or wearing bizarre clothing.

Of course, a sane person just turns the other way…but a nut job gets violent.

 

[phil19034]

Don’t be naïve. A person cannot be separated from what he/she practices. To call certain practices unnatural, disgusting, sick, evil, perverted and other such “loving” labels WILL have effects on others. You cannot “wash your hands” and assert that “you were only talking about the practices and not the person”. The phrase “hate the sin, love the sinner” is hypocritical.

“Hate the sin, love the sinner” is not hypocritical… It is the perfect balance of Mercy and Justice (or Divine Law).

For example, I hate the sin of maturation. But do I hate myself every time I give into the sin? No.

I hate the sin of fornication, but do I hate fornicators? No
I hate the sin of co-habitation, but do I hate my sister who has been co-habituating for 8 years? No

I hate the sin of murder, but do I hate all murders? No

I hate the sin of abortion, but do I hate women who had an abortion? No

I hate the sin of promoting sin (pro abortion advocates, etc), but do I hate all pro abortion activists? I admit I have trouble with this one.

“Hate the sin, but live the sinner” is an ideal. Sometimes as people, we fall short of the ideal.

Some people love the sinner, but have a hard time hating the sin because of their love for the sinner. And other times we hate the sin so much it’s hard for us to love the sinner like we should.

But this doesn’t mean you don’t strive for the ideal.

God Bless

 

[RPRPsych]

“Hate the sin, love the sinner” is not hypocritical… It is the perfect balance of Mercy and Justice (or Divine Law).

For example, I hate the sin of maturation. But do I hate myself every time I give into the sin? No.

I hate the sin of fornication, but do I hate fornicators? No
I hate the sin of co-habitation, but do I hate my sister who has been co-habituating for 8 years? No

I hate the sin of murder, but do I hate all murders? No

I hate the sin of abortion, but do I hate women who had an abortion? No

I hate the sin of promoting sin (pro abortion advocates, etc), but do I hate all pro abortion activists? I admit I have trouble with this one.

“Hate the sin, but live the sinner” is an ideal. Sometimes as people, we fall short of the ideal.

Some people love the sinner, but have a hard time hating the sin because of their love for the sinner. And other times we hate the sin so much it’s hard for us to love the sinner like we should.

But this doesn’t mean you don’t strive for the ideal.

God Bless

Excellent!

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

If the ‘fight’ was a sporting match between two persons who gave informed consent to the contest, why would you punish them? Or did you think that your analogy was a relevant one taken at face value?

Oh come on! Check the context.

Seriously, I think most people would have a problem with John the Baptist if he came on this forum. “How much can you condescend?” “Are you that bigoted?” Cause apparently it is bigoted to say the truth.

 

[Jake_Parker]

I have always been disgusted by the term “Love the sinner, hate the sin.” It is very insincere, and thrown around too much. I understand a person’s intention is to tell others that the sinful things they do are hurting them and their relationship with God, but really, it seems to mean something else entirely to many people when they hear it.

I think this article really does a great job of explaining why this useless phrase really is more ineffective than beneficial.
redeeminggod.com/love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin/

To label someone a “sinner” is to imply that they are outside of God’s grace and unless they clean up their act, cannot be forgiven.

To label someone a “sinner” reveals an “us vs. them” mentality, where you are the “righteous” person looking down your nose at the poor, wretched, ignorant “sinners” down below who just cannot get their act together. If only they would listen to what you tell them to do…

We Christians pay lip service to the idea that “We are all sinners” but we reveal that we do not really believe this when label someone else a “sinner.”

By labeling them a “sinner,” we condemn the sin of someone else as worse than our own.

 

[johnnyc176]

Hey everyone. I have heard the argument that conservative Christian teachings on homosexuality have contributed to hatred and violence against the LGBT community. Is this true? Please note that I did say “conservative Christian teachings” and not simply “Catholic teachings” because I want to include conservative Protestant beliefs about homosexuality in this discussion as well but I also don’t want Catholic beliefs to be excluded.

But anyway, is it possible to hold a middle ground of condemning the sin of homosexual unchastity and “gay marriage” while not allowing this condemnation to incite hatred and violence against LGBT people?

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘conservative Christian teachings’ but when you say Catholic teachings you mean the teachings of Jesus, correct?

Of course when one upholds the teachings of Jesus in today’s world often they will be called hater, bigot, homophobic, sexist and any other word that seeks to bury the Truth in relativism.

 

[Lion_IRC]

I have always been disgusted by the term “Love the sinner, hate the sin.” It is very insincere…

And yet this is exactly what we see when Jesus forgives a sinner and tells her to go and sin no more. Does that disgust you?

Don’t be naïve. A person cannot be separated from what he/she practices.

Not ever? Really?
Wicked act = Wicked person.
That would seem to make a person inherently evil. (Born that way.)

…To call certain practices unnatural, disgusting, sick, evil, perverted and other such “loving” labels WILL have effects on others.

I think abortion (murdering babies) is evil.
And in calling it evil, hopefully the “effect on others” will be that less evil is perpetrated.

…You cannot “wash your hands” and assert that “you were only talking about the practices and not the person”.

I don’t ever want to wash my hands when it comes to holding onto truth. And the truth is
In the bible. Namely, that people make free choices whether or not to sin - God does not create people who are inherently evil. Because if He did, we would not “love the sinner” at all. We would hate both the sin, the sinner AND the God who created such a person.

It’s precisely because God loves the sinner that He wants them to turn away from sin.

…The phrase “hate the sin, love the sinner” is hypocritical.

No. This leaves no room for Grace and/or Forgiveness - salvation.

If you are right, and if we cannot separate the person from the action, because they are inherently connected, then we MUST hate the sinner and we MUST accept that they can never be forgiven.

If it’s hypocritical for God to “love the sinner and hate the sin”, then presumably the alternative is that God must start to love both the sinner and the sin.

 

[Lion_IRC]

The corollary of the Op;

Do conservative Christian teachings on homosexuality cause hatred and violence against the LGBT community?

Would be…

Does blaming the Orlando gay nightclub massacre on Christianity cause hatred and violence against Christians?

I find it pretty hateful when I’m accused of having Orlando LGBT blood on my hands.

 

[meltzerboy]

“Hate the sin, love the sinner” is not hypocritical… It is the perfect balance of Mercy and Justice (or Divine Law).

For example, I hate the sin of maturation. But do I hate myself every time I give into the sin? No.

I hate the sin of fornication, but do I hate fornicators? No
I hate the sin of co-habitation, but do I hate my sister who has been co-habituating for 8 years? No

I hate the sin of murder, but do I hate all murders? No

I hate the sin of abortion, but do I hate women who had an abortion? No

I hate the sin of promoting sin (pro abortion advocates, etc), but do I hate all pro abortion activists? I admit I have trouble with this one.

“Hate the sin, but live the sinner” is an ideal. Sometimes as people, we fall short of the ideal.

Some people love the sinner, but have a hard time hating the sin because of their love for the sinner. And other times we hate the sin so much it’s hard for us to love the sinner like we should.

But this doesn’t mean you don’t strive for the ideal.

God Bless

You are able to differentiate between the sin and the sinner. But I would wager that many do not think in such a nuanced manner (as you indicate) and care not to separate the sin from the sinner. That is when problems arise.

 

[JonNC]

“Hate the sin, love the sinner” is not hypocritical… It is the perfect balance of Mercy and Justice (or Divine Law).

For example, I hate the sin of maturation. But do I hate myself every time I give into the sin? No.

I hate the sin of fornication, but do I hate fornicators? No
I hate the sin of co-habitation, but do I hate my sister who has been co-habituating for 8 years? No

I hate the sin of murder, but do I hate all murders? No

I hate the sin of abortion, but do I hate women who had an abortion? No

I hate the sin of promoting sin (pro abortion advocates, etc), but do I hate all pro abortion activists? I admit I have trouble with this one.

“Hate the sin, but live the sinner” is an ideal. Sometimes as people, we fall short of the ideal.

Some people love the sinner, but have a hard time hating the sin because of their love for the sinner. And other times we hate the sin so much it’s hard for us to love the sinner like we should.

But this doesn’t mean you don’t strive for the ideal.

God Bless

Jon