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MonteRCMS
Guest
Well, if we have a right to healthcare, does that mean that the government can draft or impress people into a medical service corps and force them to be doctors?
Do Democrats Know How Radical Bernie Sanders' 'Medicare For All' Plan Is?
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ucfengr
Guest
If healthcare is a right, how can you justify any sort of rationing?
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anon27816918
Guest
As Christians do we have the option not to give care to those we need it?
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ucfengr
Guest
If health care is a right, how can a Christian, or anybody else, justify any sort of rationing?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Yes indeed. Things have really changed for the better since the ACA, which put an end to charging uninsured patients the highest possible rate! Thank you Obama!
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Vonsalza
Guest
How do you mean?
We have rationing now… You realize that, right? You just don’t readily notice it because they’re at home rather than waiting in a queue that will actually, eventually get them care.
That’s still rationing.
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Vonsalza
Guest
Ah, no. I think I’ve referenced infant mortality, life expectancy and the WHO rankings of national healthcare systems. In all cases the US is ranked in the 20s or 30s. We simply have an inferior system.
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Vonsalza
Guest
Slippery-slope fallacies like this one that are meant to inspire fear are pretty well debunked when you take a quick gander at how the rest of the world seems to be handling the problem.
So to directly answer your question: “It seems that reality only manifests in people’s imaginations and not actual reality”.
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ucfengr
Guest
Rationing would imply that health care isn’t actually a right. It can be denied by the authorizing authority.ucfengr:
How do you mean?
We have rationing now… You realize that, right? You just don’t readily notice it because they’re at home rather than waiting in a queue that will actually, eventually get them care.
That’s still rationing.
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Vonsalza
Guest
I wasn’t aware anyone in the US was really pushing for a VA-style system.
At least, that’s certainly not what “single-payer” means…
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ucfengr
Guest
So when you say health care is a right, what you really mean is that the government, rather than the market, should determine who gets what health care. The only right being discussed is the right of the government to deny certain people health care.
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Vonsalza
Guest
Not following the argument…Vonsalza:
Rationing would imply that health care isn’t actually a right. It can be denied by the authorizing authority.ucfengr:
How do you mean?
We have rationing now… You realize that, right? You just don’t readily notice it because they’re at home rather than waiting in a queue that will actually, eventually get them care.
That’s still rationing.
So you’re saying that because we could run out of asphalt or bullets (as we must ration those too), the public interstates and armies should close down as well???
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Vonsalza
Guest
Not even remotely correct…
What I’m saying is that a single-payer model (similar to “Medicare for all”) is the best model for collectivizing (aka “insuring”) the healthcare costs of all people in a way that will get them access to care.
Under this model, you go to the same ole’ doctor you’ve always gone to. (Or you can change doctors, if you please. It won’t matter as they all take the same insurance.) They determine your care, just like they do now. No government official gets to determine what healthcare you get any more than your current private insurer gets to determine what kind of healthcare you get.
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ucfengr
Guest
I think the problem is that people have lost the idea of what it means to ration. During WW2, for example, a person a person was allowed to buy, say, 1 pound of hamburger per week, or 2 gallons of gasoline per week. When the hamburger was gone, or the fuel tank was empty, you couldn’t buy any more until the next week. Rationing means some authority artificially limits what you can buy based not on availability, but based on some edict. In a free market, nothing is rationed, you’re only limited by availability and ability to purchase.
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Vonsalza
Guest
…which is also rationing…
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ucfengr
Guest
As I said, you don’t understand what rationing is. Me not being able to afford a Ferrari doesn’t mean the Ferraris are rationed.
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Vonsalza
Guest
…ugh… yes it does. I’m guessing you’ve never had the benefit of “Intro to Microeconomics” from your local U. But that’s absolutely, objectively a form of rationing. You just don’t know it. Which is fine.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
'Not really responsive. Again, how would you ration healthcare?
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Vonsalza
Guest
I’d recommend identifying the 10 best healthcare systems in the world and cross-reference them to one another in comparative analysis in an effort to identify best-practices that they share between them and then replicate those best-practices.Sy_Noe:
'Not really responsive. Again, how would you ration healthcare?
Basically, what you do when you want to do anything as well as someone that currently does it better than you.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
You’re joking, right? Uninsureds are still charged “Reasonable and Necessary”, which is the highest rate. Of course, the provider will often reduce the charges if they have to go to too much trouble to collect. If they perceive that they can’t collect, they write it off.
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