Do Democrats Know How Radical Bernie Sanders' 'Medicare For All' Plan Is?

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

I’m not even sure what “contractual obligation” means. The fact is that after the Sixteenth Amendment, Congress’s powers to tax were greatly expanded. Now you might be right that the Founding Fathers might have found such income redistribution programs violated their notions of the Federal Government’s rightful powers, but things changed quite a bit in the intervening years.

I agree that things have changed quite a bit.

But you know, I’m pretty confident that if “Medicare for all” (which probably really means “Medicaid for most, private insurance for some”) was taxed in the same manner as is Medicare, i.e. taxes on all wages, it wouldn’t stand a chance of passage. Tell people their Medicare tax is going to double or treble, and the resulting howl would be loud enough to cause the capitol dome to collapse. It’s one thing to vote yourself a benefit at someone else’s expense. It’s quite another to vote to pay for it yourself.

That may be true, but the one thing that isn’t true is that it violates the Constitution.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That may be true, but the one thing that isn’t true is that it violates the Constitution.

I never claimed it did. But even if it does,(about which I’m agnostic) the courts are very unlikely to ever rule that it does.

 

[MonteRCMS]

How will a GINORMOUS bureaucracy that cannot be evaded … how will that improve things?

 

[stinkcat_14]

How will a GINORMOUS bureaucracy that cannot be evaded … how will that improve things?

We already have a GINORMOUS bureaucracy serving medicare, which is a program that you support. So what makes the GINORMOUS bureaucracy associated with medicare for some good and the GINORMOUS bureaucracy associated with medicare for all bad?

 

[Ridgerunner]

We already have a GINORMOUS bureaucracy serving medicare, which is a program that you support. So what makes the GINORMOUS bureaucracy associated with medicare for some good and the GINORMOUS bureaucracy associated with medicare for all bad?

It could certainly get worse. Right now, the only healthcare program the government actually administers is VA. Insurance companies administer all the rest of them, because the government doesn’t have the ability. So if we’re really going to have “government health care”, an enormous private network is going to have to become federal.

 

[stinkcat_14]

It could certainly get worse. Right now, the only healthcare program the government actually administers is VA. Insurance companies administer all the rest of them, because the government doesn’t have the ability. So if we’re really going to have “government health care”, an enormous private network is going to have to become federal.

I have no doubt that the bureaucracy will get worse, it is just the inconsistency of those who support the current medicare program and yet bring up all kinds of reasons why medicare for all is bad. What few will admit (you being the exception) is that the current medicare program is a massive redistribution program. We can’t afford it and our grandchildren will pay a massive penalty just because of that program alone.

 

[MonteRCMS]

True that the Veterans Administration healthcare is generally awful, although some like it.

The Bureau of Indian Affairs sort of administers a medical “system”. It is allegedly not very good.

 

[stinkcat_14]

And yet even people who supposedly support small government support Medicare.

 

[ProVobis]

I’m beginning to think Medicare is more of a cost-control program which is tolerable only for those of a certain age range. Providers of course would rather set their own prices, which they could not at all if everyone were on Medicare. Government theoretically could make all services free, thus saving taxpayers money, but who would provide free services?

 

[JimG]

What few will admit (you being the exception) is that the current medicare program is a massive redistribution program. We can’t afford it and our grandchildren will pay a massive penalty just because of that program alone.

Well, I will admit it as well. Medicare is a massive redistribution program, and I’m a beneficiary of it. I was happy with my previous private plan, but when I became Medicare eligible, the insuror notified me that they would automatically become my supplement/secondary plan.

Why should the younger generation, some of whom are paying huge ACA premiums, have to support the Medicare of elders who often have more assets and income available than do their grandchildren?

Ironically, it seems the ultimate beneficiaries are the medical providers who are guaranteed a steady customer base, with the government fixing prices.

 

[ProVobis]

Why should the younger generation, some of whom are paying huge ACA premiums, have to support the Medicare of elders who often have more assets and income available than do their grandchildren?

Hopefully they’ll inherit some of it.

Unless they use it up on some nursing home costing $5,000 a month.

At least we should give them credit on not counting on Medicaid for that.

 

[JimG]

Well, I hope they realize that planning on an inheritance does not constitute a financial plan. Potential inheritances can easily be wiped out by end of life medical and nursing home expenses. They need to start planning for their own retirement.

 

[MonteRCMS]

So, why is it that Bernie is against people making their own health care choices?

Why are we prohibited from selecting our very own medical payment insurance?

Why is Congress and labor unions and government employees exempt from ACA / also known as ObamaCare?

Why not just throw open the gates and let people choose their own?

 

[stinkcat_14]

So, why is it that Bernie is against people making their own health care choices?

Why are we prohibited from selecting our very own medical payment insurance?

Why is Congress and labor unions and government employees exempt from ACA / also known as ObamaCare?

Why not just throw open the gates and let people choose their own?

Does the current version of medicare prevent people from making their own health care choices? If not, then how will Bernies plan be different?

 

[Catholicos]

I know a few Catholics who are fans of Sanders. This is a good opportunity to not only learn about politics but also learn more about what your Catholic faith teaches about Socialistic ideology.

The Church gives great guidance and I think with an open mind and heart you should listen to Her, Do not be swayed by false narratives so prevalent in the political realm . Read up on G.K Chesterton The Catholic teachings always offer something better simply because it teaches and reasons with morality and fairness. The Church really is like your earthly mother when you were young. You won’t like what she tells you, but ultimately what she tells you is for your better good.

 

[stinkcat_14]

What socialist policies does Bernie propose that violate Church teaching on socialism. Medicare for all certainly doesn’t violate Church teaching, since we already have the program for some and the Church has never condemned it. So was are his problematic policies from a catholic point of view?

 

[Catholicos]

It’s not one particular issue that would be at odds with the Catholic faith. So it’s not one particular policy proposed by Bernie Sanders
It’s the big picture and the overall framework of the Socialist ideology that becomes problematic, and if we look at that Big picture, it would include not just Bernie, but Obama and the rest that share this ideology.

In a nutshell, and in how different Popes have taught . Socialism puts the the State at a level that’s far above everything else, especially the Church. It really does become a true separation of Church and state.

Really, even this separation of Church and State is really a heretical belief, but that’s a whole nother topic altogether. The most glorious time for Christianity and the world happened not when the Church was separated from the State, but when the 2 worked together. Much like there are checks and balances in our democracy today that make sure no branch of government overwhelms another branch. The Christian society of the Middle Ages allowed the Church to be the moral conscience of the State. It did not give the State free reign to impose it’s morality, it’s beliefs, its interpretation on rights unabated and unchallenged by a moral authority.
And of course the private property and the right of the individual to decide is a big thing with Catholic teaching, this is another area where Socialism becomes very problematic along with the truly secular aspect that’s intrinsically built into Socialism. This is not to imply Capitalism is immune from many of the same things.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...C/w530-h495-n-rw/Pope+John+Paul+Socialism.jpg

The HHS mandate that Obamacare imposed is a perfect example of when the state decided to impose it’s view on a moral issue like contraceptive to all of society. The Church rightly challenged it,and fortunately now Trump has sided with the Church. Well meaning laws when left unchallenged brings the disorder that Pope St. Leo XIII rightly identified decades before Socialism was implemented. He could almost see into the future. Pope Leo really laid the foundation for how we are to understand Socialism.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0qqMRgOtJ1Y/Wdq1hkX9MiI/AAAAAAAAMwM/FijGut4pcK8HqutddQcangDx3Y7LQBr6wCJoC/w530-h530-n-rw/leoXIII-2.jpg

 

[MonteRCMS]

There is also the HUMONGOUS bureaucracy that we are inheriting from ObamaCare. I mean, like, the Internal Revenue Service, ALONE has added tens of thousands of additional agents to help enforce the mandates contained in ObamaCare.

The bureaucracy in all of its manifestations helps no one.

But it does add giant delay and high costs AND slows down the process of innovation.

 

[stinkcat_14]

There is also the HUMONGOUS bureaucracy that we are inheriting from ObamaCare. I mean, like, the Internal Revenue Service, ALONE has added tens of thousands of additional agents to help enforce the mandates contained in ObamaCare.

The bureaucracy in all of its manifestations helps no one.

But it does add giant delay and high costs AND slows down the process of innovation.

Once again, there is a HUMONGOUS bureaucracy supporting medicare, a program which you support. So what makes the HUMONGOUS bureaucracy with medicare good and Obamacare bad? I notice you tend to duck the difficult questions, especially the ones that expose you as a supporter of the big government welfare state.

 

[MonteRCMS]

I have been paying for it for almost 50 years.