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stinkcat_14
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And that makes it constitutional?
Do Democrats Know How Radical Bernie Sanders' 'Medicare For All' Plan Is?
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stinkcat_14
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I appreciate your honesty. You look at welfare for others as a bad thing, but welfare for yourself is good. You feel that the current generation of workers should sacrifice for you, even though you have done nothing for them. Yet when it comes to their healthcare, they are on their own. There is nothing to redistribute to them because you demand all the redistribution going your way. It is refreshing to see such honesty.
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Ridgerunner
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No one truly “deserves” Medicare benefits. The real question is whether the situation and need of the poorer elderly is such that society should consider it a duty to provide that benefit for them. Unfortunately, what seemed so easy to accomplish sixty years ago has now become a terrible burden on those who are trying to make a living by their own labor.
It has long seemed to me that like any welfare program, which Medicare truly is, it should be means tested. Same with social security retirement benefits.
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ProVobis
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It already is somewhat through the tax code. The more outside income you make (including “tax-free” interest) the more taxable are the social security benefits. Look at the 1040 form and instructions.
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Ridgerunner
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You’re correct, and that might be called “means testing…sort of”. But if, say, a person has outside income of $100,000, what is the compelling reason he should also receive SS retirement income paid by someone making, say, $40,000?
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stinkcat_14
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I agree that something should be done for people who have absolutely no alternative, although there are many ways to accomplish this which would be more consistent with the principle of subsidiarity. For example, many people in the US retire way too early. They are capable of working, they just choose not to because of social security and medicare. We could also look at having children take responsibility for their parents healthcare.stinkcat_14:
No one truly “deserves” Medicare benefits. The real question is whether the situation and need of the poorer elderly is such that society should consider it a duty to provide that benefit for them. Unfortunately, what seemed so easy to accomplish sixty years ago has now become a terrible burden on those who are trying to make a living by their own labor.
It has long seemed to me that like any welfare program, which Medicare truly is, it should be means tested. Same with social security retirement benefits.
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ProVobis
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Okay but you would have to wait until the end of the year to determine how much SS one should have received for that year. (The ACA has that same problem with the premiums.) A little messy if you ask me. So either you pay back the benefits or pay increased taxes on them, which is what is done now. I don’t know which nets you more.
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o_mlly
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Except for the Medicare-Medicaid claimants in my state, Medicare will never use my taxes to fund an abortion. People over 65 rarely, if ever, get pregnant.
The Church condemns abortions. Bernie and his ilk want abortions for all. http://feministing.com/2017/08/02/bernies-medicare-for-all-plan-must-include-abortion-coverage/
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o_mlly
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If I buy an insurance policy then am I not entitled to claim its benefits?
Remember Social Security is more correctly called the Federal Insurance Contribution Act and Medicare was a designed insurance scheme meant to be self-funding. That both programs are in fiscal difficulty is a strong reason not to trust the federal government launching a single payer scheme.
Medicare covers less than half of beneficiaries medical costs.
No part of Medicare pays for all of a beneficiary’s covered medical costs and many costs and services are not covered at all. The program contains premiums, deductibles and coinsurance, which the covered individual must pay out-of-pocket. A study published by the Kaiser Family Foundation in 2008 found the Fee-for-Service Medicare benefit package was less generous than either the typical large employer Preferred provider organization plan or the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program Standard Option.
How Does the Benefit Value of Medicare Compare to the Benefit Value of Typical Large Employer Plans?: A 2012 Update | KFF
This study compares the value of Medicare's fee-for-service benefits last year with the value of benefits in two large employer health plans -- a large health plan serving federal employees and a typical large employer Preferred Provider Organization (PPO) plan.
www.kff.org
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stinkcat_14
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Except of course, that neither is an insurance policy. The courts have consistently ruled that both are welfare programs. Also, about 75% of the cost of Medicare part B and 78% of the cost of part D are covered by the taxpayer. That is from the general tax revenue of the government. There is a premium that recipients pay, but it is far from covering the full cost of those programs. Medicare recipients are placing a big obligation on their grandchildren. I don’t know how they sleep at night, because it is a pretty selfish thing to do if you ask me.Ridgerunner:
If I buy an insurance policy then am I not entitled to claim its benefits?
Remember Social Security is more correctly called the Federal Insurance Contribution Act and Medicare was a designed insurance scheme meant to be self-funding. That both programs are in fiscal difficulty is a strong reason not to trust the federal government launching a single payer scheme.
Medicare covers less than half of beneficiaries medical costs.
No part of Medicare pays for all of a beneficiary’s covered medical costs and many costs and services are not covered at all. The program contains premiums, deductibles and coinsurance, which the covered individual must pay out-of-pocket. A study published by the Kaiser Family Foundation in 2008 found the Fee-for-Service Medicare benefit package was less generous than either the typical large employer Preferred provider organization plan or the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program Standard Option.
How Does the Benefit Value of Medicare Compare to the Benefit Value of Typical Large Employer Plans?: A 2012 Update | KFF
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o_mlly
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So you are firmly against a federal government “single payer” scheme which does pay for itself on day one?
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stinkcat_14
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Yes. Why would you think otherwise?
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ProVobis
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This would be true if all prices for services are fixed. But we know Medicare negotiates prices for coverage, a lot less generally than anyone else.
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o_mlly
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Should have posted:
So you are firmly against a federal government “single payer” scheme which does not pay for itself on day one?
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stinkcat_14
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I am against single payer, whether it does or does not pay for itself.o_mlly:
Should have posted:
So you are firmly against a federal government “single payer” scheme which does not pay for itself on day one?
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ProVobis
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To keep the discussion going, what would be the ideal healthcare program in your opinion?
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stinkcat_14
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Take part of the Medicare payroll tax and put it in an HSA for workers. Also get rid of excessive regulation that drives up healthcare costs. I mean why should a pay to see a physician for something a nurse is capable of doing. Move towards more catastrophic type insurance policies.
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o_mlly
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That’s incorrect. Do you have a reference citing your claim that courts ruled otherwise? Both are failing insurance schemes.
We use the word “premium” for insurance.
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stinkcat_14
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http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/21/why-entitlement-programs-arent-really-entitlements/stinkcat_14:
That’s incorrect. Do you have a reference citing your claim that courts ruled otherwise? Both are failing insurance schemes.
You need to include my full quote. I said that recipients pay a premium for part B, but that it only covers about 25% of the cost of part B. So the question is, why should seniors have their part B coverage subsidized?
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o_mlly
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Not only does your reference not support your claim:
It states the opposite:
“Benefits” applies to insurance schemes.
How is it that if the premiums paid do not cover claims that magically the contract ceases to be one of insurance? Your logic escapes me.
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