Do Faeries exist?

[danaemariejoan]

If you believe in faeries then they do exist. The question is, is believing in faeries wong? And which fairies are you talking about the ones with wings, or the elves of J. R. R. Tolkien?

 

[MegaTherion]

I’m going to address only the first point in your post because there is too much here to address at once.

First quoted paragraph: Believers also frequently assert that others may have the same experiences, just as lovers assert that others may in fact fall in love. Say to God, “Help me to know You; forgive me of my sins; help me to follow You and live for You,” and let’s see what happens.

No one is disputing that people have what are commonly referred to as “religious experiences.” Writings of mystics from all cultures and religions seem to attest to kinds of unusual states of consciousness that result from devotional practices, meditation, concentration of the mind, etc.

That such phenomena occur regardless of which gods or belief systems are employed – and often without a god, as in Buddhism – suggests that the experience is not dependent on any supernatural “being” and may, in fact, be a natural, universal experience.

In other words, the experience is proof of the experience, not proof that the source of the experience is what you think.

To make an analogy: I have the exprience of watching the moon shrink and then vanish during a lunar eclipse. That experience is real. But just because the experience is real does not mean that it corresponds to reality outside of me – that is, it does not mean that the moon is really shrinking and disappearing.

How do I know what is really going on? Evidence – independently confirmable, repeatedly verifiable evidence.

Speaking of which, there have indeed been experiments done that demonstrate that activating certain parts of the brain can trigger these “spiritual” experiences.

We are talking about neural activity…the experience is quite real, but there’s no evidence whatsoever that the experience corresponds to an entity outside of yourself. Different test subjects call the experience “Jesus” or “Elijah” or “Great Spirit” or whatever (depending on which belief system they have)…but it’s just your own emotional enthusiasm and brain chemistry.

If you ask “help me to know you, God” with a belief, you’ll likely get an answer in the form of your own brain waves. That doesn’t prove anything other than the fact that stirring up strong emotions produces strange experiences in the brain.

 

[cpayne]

I’m going to address only the first point in your post because there is too much here to address at once.

No one is disputing that people have what are commonly referred to as “religious experiences.” Writings of mystics from all cultures and religions seem to attest to kinds of unusual states of consciousness that result from devotional practices, meditation, concentration of the mind, etc.

That such phenomena occur regardless of which gods or belief systems are employed – and often without a god, as in Buddhism – suggests that the experience is not dependent on any supernatural “being” and may, in fact, be a natural, universal experience.

In other words, the experience is proof of the experience, not proof that the source of the experience is what you think.

To make an analogy: I have the exprience of watching the moon shrink and then vanish during a lunar eclipse. That experience is real. But just because the experience is real does not mean that it corresponds to reality outside of me – that is, it does not mean that the moon is really shrinking and disappearing.

How do I know what is really going on? Evidence – independently confirmable, repeatedly verifiable evidence.

Speaking of which, there have indeed been experiments done that demonstrate that activating certain parts of the brain can trigger these “spiritual” experiences.

We are talking about neural activity…the experience is quite real, but there’s no evidence whatsoever that the experience corresponds to an entity outside of yourself. Different test subjects call the experience “Jesus” or “Elijah” or “Great Spirit” or whatever (depending on which belief system they have)…but it’s just your own emotional enthusiasm and brain chemistry.

If you ask “help me to know you, God” with a belief, you’ll likely get an answer in the form of your own brain waves. That doesn’t prove anything other than the fact that stirring up strong emotions produces strange experiences in the brain.

So let’s try it and see.

I am aware that all human experiences have physiological correlates. The reduction of human experience to these correlates, however, is philosophically untenable. However, as you correctly note, that would be a really long post, and it’s getting a bit late. Perhaps tomorrow? Best, cpayne

 

[warpspeedpetey]

For good examples of this, just go back in this thread and read the first ten posts or so. It doesn’t matter what sort of arguments are used for God’s existence, some people will simply say, “That logic doesn’t work for me.” Or they’ll just say something else. ANYTHING else, just to avoid God.

true, but i keep hoping

 

[LegoGE1947]

true, but i keep hoping

Of course you know “Bob Hoping” passed away a few years ago.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Of course you know “Bob Hoping” passed away a few years ago.

thats bad, thats very bad.

 

[cheeto1]

For some reason, just seeing this question caused me to
re-think my beliefs of faries. I’ve always just thought, “no”,
but then why do some people believe? Well, we don’t know
how big angels are, what if some are very small? Of course,
the devil has his “angels” too. If I had to choose which of these
the faries might be, I’d probably lean to the side of the devil,
and stay very far away from them. (that is if they exist)

 

[LegoGE1947]

For some reason, just seeing this question caused me to
re-think my beliefs of faries. I’ve always just thought, “no”,
but then why do some people believe? Well, we don’t know
how big angels are, what if some are very small? Of course,
the devil has his “angels” too. If I had to choose which of these
the faries might be, I’d probably lean to the side of the devil,
and stay very far away from them. (that is if they exist)

Walt Disney’s “Tinkerbell” was quite small about the size of a hummingbird.

 

[LegoGE1947]

thats bad, thats very bad.

It was the best I could do on such short notice:shrug:

 

[cheeto1]

Walt Disney’s “Tinkerbell” was quite small about the size of a hummingbird.

Yes I think you are right. I haven’t seen that movie in many
years since I am convinced that God wants us to stay away
from “magical” powers of any kind. It is not good to get
de-sensitized to an evil spirit world, and think it is all fun and
games.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Yes I think you are right. I haven’t seen that movie in many
years since I am convinced that God wants us to stay away
from “magical” powers of any kind. It is not good to get
de-sensitized to an evil spirit world, and think it is all fun and
games.

Just like halloween. So many people think that is just fun and games. But I’ve heard from some Messianic Jews I know that there are people who sacrifice animals in some of the public parks near here on October 31. That doesn’t sound like “fun and games” to me!

 

[cheeto1]

Just like halloween. So many people think that is just fun and games. But I’ve heard from some Messianic Jews I know that there are people who sacrifice animals in some of the public parks near here on October 31. That doesn’t sound like “fun and games” to me!

Absolutely, people should keep their animals in that night
and the night before, and keep a close watch on their children!
Halloween is a night celebrated for the devil and those who
work for him, despite those who think the things of evil are
fun and games. Incidentally, I see there are a few athiests
here. I once did not know that God was real, and I found out
about the devil first. There is nothing anyone can do for you
if you are an atheist, but if you decide to seek God out, you
will find that He is real, and better than your wildest dreams.
He is the Only one who can save you from the works of the
devil, remember that. You can’t save yourself by not believing.
Bless you all

 

[LegoGE1947]

Absolutely, people should keep their animals in that night
and the night before, and keep a close watch on their children!
Halloween is a night celebrated for the devil and those who
work for him, despite those who think the things of evil are
fun and games. Incidentally, I see there are a few athiests
here. I once did not know that God was real, and I found out
about the devil first. There is nothing anyone can do for you
if you are an atheist, but if you decide to seek God out, you
will find that He is real, and better than your wildest dreams.
He is the Only one who can save you from the works of the
devil, remember that. You can’t save yourself by not believing.
Bless you all

I used to live neighbors to a biker and his lady friend. Just looking into his eyes a person could see the devil. He would try to attack me sometimes because he would violate the city cerfew on noise by playing loud music late at night in his apartment. When I confronted him about it one night he come out his back door like a house afire grabbed me by the shirt and backed me up against a wall and began calling me every sort of name except “sweetheart” if you Know what I mean! one time we were having another “discussion” in the front yard of our apartment bldg when suddenly some Christian friends of ours happened to drive by and saw what was happening. They stopped and asked if there was a problem and suddenly the neighbor backed off from me real quick. Incidentally the Christian man had been a biker one time in his life so he was knowledgeable of such things. Needless to say I was sure glad to see him at the moment!

 

[MindOverMatter]

The fairies told my uncle that all the scriptures of the world are false, inspired by the unseelie court in an attempt to convince the world that fairies don’t exist. The fairies have told other members of my family this, and they’ve told me the same thing in dreams as well.

The Devil tells people alot of things. The Devil doesn’t want you to believe in God. He often decieves people by munipulating their egotistic desires. One way of doing this (which is Devils favorite) is by making them think that they have found some kind of specail truth, that they are specail, and its their destiny to overthrow the lies of Christianity.

The lust for power has conquered many.

If you can agree that there is a first cause, why can’t you see that fairies are the true First Cause? What argument could you possibly use against what I’ve written above? (and I haven’t even mentioned the numerous fairy prophecies that have come true)

Show me why a first cause necessitates the existence of a fairy?

 

[chrisb]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

My daughter likes faeries… she thinks they are angels who came down to earth to live.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

My daughter likes faeries… she thinks they are angels who came down to earth to live.

I think faeries are just as probable as angels. If God created Faeries, who are we to say that those who saw them are insane?
I think the existence of any being is compatible with God so long as it does not contradict Gods nature to create them. The only reason we have for doubting them is that we have not seen them ourselves and neither is there any ethical or theological reason that compels us to accept their existence. In the grand sceme of things, the existence of faeries is not anywhere near as important as the existence of God; but i don’t think there is anything wrong with thinking that such beings are angels. We all have guardian angels; perhaps those faeries are really sightings of angels.

 

[MindOverMatter]

I used to live neighbors to a biker and his lady friend. Just looking into his eyes a person could see the devil. He would try to attack me sometimes because he would violate the city cerfew on noise by playing loud music late at night in his apartment. When I confronted him about it one night he come out his back door like a house afire grabbed me by the shirt and backed me up against a wall and began calling me every sort of name except “sweetheart” if you Know what I mean! one time we were having another “discussion” in the front yard of our apartment bldg when suddenly some Christian friends of ours happened to drive by and saw what was happening. They stopped and asked if there was a problem and suddenly the neighbor backed off from me real quick. Incidentally the Christian man had been a biker one time in his life so he was knowledgeable of such things. Needless to say I was sure glad to see him at the moment!

I have had experiences like this. Fear is the Devils number one weapon; but fear can also be positive since it gives us reason to call out to God. It can bring our stuborn hearts back to God. If you know what i mean.

 

[LegoGE1947]

:yup:

I have had experiences like this. Fear is the Devils number one weapon; but fear can also be positive since it gives us reason to call out to God. It can bring our stuborn hearts back to God. If you know what i mean.

:tiphat: A tip of the hat to you!

 

[PRmerger]

If someone who lost a leg were to grow back a completely normal, healthy and functioning limb, then I would call that a miracle.

That doesn’t happen, hasn’t happen and will never happen, because medical miracles are not the result of divine intervention.

If they were the result of divine intervention, at least one person would have grown back a complete limb by now.

Although presumably seeker777 cannot see this post, the above comment does warrant a response.

It was beautifully addressed in July '08 (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3981043&highlight=regenerative#post3981043)
by Nullasalus here:

The question is often given as ‘Why does God hate amputees?’ On the grounds that God is credited for a variety of miracle healings, but amputees are never cured.

1. First off, it’s not true that human amputees are never cured or that such things are impossible. We have regenerative abilities in the womb, and for a time after birth (I forget the exact age range, forgive me) fingertips/toes are able to grow back as well. You can call this natural* as opposed to miraculous, but it’s worth pointing out.

We’ve also had people whose limbs were severed, but then re-attached and healed. If there was a low, or no expectancy of the re-attachment working, would this count as a miracle? I’m going to guess the skeptic would argue ‘no, a natural cause is still more reasonable’.

What we’re talking about, then, are more mature humans not regrowing/reattaching their limbs miraculously.

1. But we’ve had reports of limbs growing back as well. The miracle of Calanda, Jesus reattaching the ear of a slave during his arrest, etc. Again, we can see the objection: Not recent enough, not certain enough. So it’s not ‘Why doesn’t God heal amputees?’ or even ‘Why doesn’t God heal mature amputees?’ but 'Why doesn’t God regrow the limbs of mature amputees with enough frequency/documentation?'
2. But what’s the proper frequency? I don’t think even the devoutly religious would argue that every instance of a claimed miraculous healing is truly necessarily miraculous. And ‘miracle healings’ are rare enough as is. So here alone, we’re actually at an impasse - miracles of any kind are by their nature rare and exceptional.** But we not only want a miracle, but a specific type of miracle (regrowing a limb), under specific conditions (independently verifiable by trusted parties both before and after the healing), and quite possibly multiple (because a single report isn’t enough - again, Calanda).**
3. But would even getting this be enough to prove a miracle? Frankly, no. Because we already know regeneration exists in the animal kingdom (salamanders, etc) and within humans (in the womb, limited degree out of the womb, etc). And we’re now working on technologies to allow the regrowth of limbs, with some claimed success in fingertips as is. A skeptic could just as easily turn around and say, ‘This was no miracle. At most it’s a mystery. It’s not a miracle when some lizards regrow their tails, after all. This could be entirely natural and explicable without recourse to God in the same way.’ Again, we’re highlighting that limb regrowth isn’t ‘impossible’ at all. What’s being called impossible is miraculous limb regrowth at most.

For me, what the topic highlights is that the line between ‘miracle’ and ‘nature’ is blurry even for believers, not to mention skeptics. And I don’t think any person ever prays for an out and out miracle: A person with cancer prays that they’re cured. Whether it’s naturally (through a new medication) or miraculously (the cancer simply vanishes) does not and should not matter to them. The same goes for amputees: They don’t pray for God to fashion a limb for them ex nihilo. If their limb can be re-attached, if a treatment can be given to grant them use of their limb again, etc, they’ll be satisfied. The only utility of an inexplicable or miraculous healing is in its testimony. “There are forces at work in the world beyond what we can immediately explain.”

What the skeptic is asking for, then, is mind-bogglingly narrow. Not just a claimed miracle, but a claimed miracle of a very specific type, investigated thoroughly enough and happening frequently enough to stave off questions of whether it is in fact happening, with the stipulation that it can’t have a ‘natural’ explanation. But since you can appeal to ‘unknown natural’ as a skeptic, what they’re asking for IS impossible.

• (And just because something is ‘natural’ does not mean ‘not in the debt of God’. Remember the Problem of Evil claims: If God exists, He permits evil, and is responsible for it. But that holds insofar as God is responsible for good as well. So even natural healings, technological advances, etc are one more thing for theists to give thanks to God about.)

 

[LegoGE1947]

Although presumably seeker777 cannot see this post, the above comment does warrant a response.

It was beautifully addressed in July '08 (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3981043&highlight=regenerative#post3981043)
by Nullasalus here:

The question is often given as ‘Why does God hate amputees?’ On the grounds that God is credited for a variety of miracle healings, but amputees are never cured.

1. First off, it’s not true that human amputees are never cured or that such things are impossible. We have regenerative abilities in the womb, and for a time after birth (I forget the exact age range, forgive me) fingertips/toes are able to grow back as well. You can call this natural* as opposed to miraculous, but it’s worth pointing out.

We’ve also had people whose limbs were severed, but then re-attached and healed. If there was a low, or no expectancy of the re-attachment working, would this count as a miracle? I’m going to guess the skeptic would argue ‘no, a natural cause is still more reasonable’.

What we’re talking about, then, are more mature humans not regrowing/reattaching their limbs miraculously.

1. But we’ve had reports of limbs growing back as well. The miracle of Calanda, Jesus reattaching the ear of a slave during his arrest, etc. Again, we can see the objection: Not recent enough, not certain enough. So it’s not ‘Why doesn’t God heal amputees?’ or even ‘Why doesn’t God heal mature amputees?’ but 'Why doesn’t God regrow the limbs of mature amputees with enough frequency/documentation?'
2. But what’s the proper frequency? I don’t think even the devoutly religious would argue that every instance of a claimed miraculous healing is truly necessarily miraculous. And ‘miracle healings’ are rare enough as is. So here alone, we’re actually at an impasse - miracles of any kind are by their nature rare and exceptional.** But we not only want a miracle, but a specific type of miracle (regrowing a limb), under specific conditions (independently verifiable by trusted parties both before and after the healing), and quite possibly multiple (because a single report isn’t enough - again, Calanda).**
3. But would even getting this be enough to prove a miracle? Frankly, no. Because we already know regeneration exists in the animal kingdom (salamanders, etc) and within humans (in the womb, limited degree out of the womb, etc). And we’re now working on technologies to allow the regrowth of limbs, with some claimed success in fingertips as is. A skeptic could just as easily turn around and say, ‘This was no miracle. At most it’s a mystery. It’s not a miracle when some lizards regrow their tails, after all. This could be entirely natural and explicable without recourse to God in the same way.’ Again, we’re highlighting that limb regrowth isn’t ‘impossible’ at all. What’s being called impossible is miraculous limb regrowth at most.

For me, what the topic highlights is that the line between ‘miracle’ and ‘nature’ is blurry even for believers, not to mention skeptics. And I don’t think any person ever prays for an out and out miracle: A person with cancer prays that they’re cured. Whether it’s naturally (through a new medication) or miraculously (the cancer simply vanishes) does not and should not matter to them. The same goes for amputees: They don’t pray for God to fashion a limb for them ex nihilo. If their limb can be re-attached, if a treatment can be given to grant them use of their limb again, etc, they’ll be satisfied. The only utility of an inexplicable or miraculous healing is in its testimony. “There are forces at work in the world beyond what we can immediately explain.”

What the skeptic is asking for, then, is mind-bogglingly narrow. Not just a claimed miracle, but a claimed miracle of a very specific type, investigated thoroughly enough and happening frequently enough to stave off questions of whether it is in fact happening, with the stipulation that it can’t have a ‘natural’ explanation. But since you can appeal to ‘unknown natural’ as a skeptic, what they’re asking for IS impossible.

• (And just because something is ‘natural’ does not mean ‘not in the debt of God’. Remember the Problem of Evil claims: If God exists, He permits evil, and is responsible for it. But that holds insofar as God is responsible for good as well. So even natural healings, technological advances, etc are one more thing for theists to give thanks to God about.)

Did you know that atheists have a holiday? It’s called April Fools Day.