Do Homosexuals Have The Equal Rights in the USA?

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Since my last gay in the military thread went so well, and since it got moved here, I figured I’d start another thread on the more broad topic of homosexual rights in the USA.

So, some things to think about
  • Are homosexuals marginalized in society? (ie, freedom of expression)
    • How and where if at all?
  • Are homosexuals marginalized by the law?
    • If so with respect to what?
What I tend to see on this board is one of two things, either a disconnect that gays are a marginalized minority group, or belief that gays have an overarching agenda to corrupt and plunge society into moral decay which makes it moral to discriminate against them. Tell me what you think!
 
I think that they have equal rights in the sense that they can have a job, have health insurance, vote, buy a house, a car, get an education, etc. In other words, they have equal rights to do all those things that everyone else does. What they don’t have a right to is to be treated differently or treated with kid gloves and be pandered to just because they didn’t get their way at the courts. I know that not all homosexuals are this way. Most live fairly normal lives. However, there are some that are very loud and obnoxious. They act like whiny brats who want their way and when they don’t get it, they whine and cry to mommy or daddy who wears black robes. This is what I don’t like. I also think that they do tend to shove their lifestyles down everyone’s throat.

Do you realize how many “scholarly” dissertations, articles, books, etc are on the subject of everything homosexual? Do you realize that in an scholarly journal on the subject of human sexuality, 95% of the articles are on some aspect of homosexuality? Do you not further realize how much it has seeped into literary theory, historical topics, psychology, etc? Argh, its everywhere. This is what I find most disturbing. Apparently we are supposed to read literature, plays, poetry, history, art, etc in light of queer theory now :mad:.

I work at a university library in the interlibrary loan department so I have a good gauge as to what is being studied right now :(. UGH!
 
they have equal rights to do all those things that everyone else does.
Off the top of my head, homosexuals cannot serve in the military and have a civil union in Hawaii. Do you still believe the quoted statement is true?
 
I agree with rapunzel. They can live normal lives in society as long as they do 4 things:
  1. don’t look at me
  2. don’t touch me
  3. stay away from my children
  4. keep their sexual orientation to themselves
Being gay is nothing to be proud of. But if I were to start a “straight pride” rally, I would be automatically labeled as a “nazi” and “intolerant”. The obnoxious gays and lesbians don’t seem to understand the difference between “equal rights” and “silencing any views contrary to their own”.
 
Gays have the same rights as everyone else. Their problems start when they throw their lifestyles in the face of everyone else, and complain when other people object to TMI.
 
Hi Lynx. If you are asking the simple question as to whether they have equal rights, I would say yes. They have equal rights qua persons. If your question is whether they should have equal rights as persons, then I believe they should. Rights come from human nature and the perfection of it, as well as from God (as the constitution says rightly). The state serves as a means to the common good. Every person has the natural right to marriage, because it is perfective of the human nature and form, as well as as the race as a whole. Even homosexuals, properly speaking, have the right to marriage when we define marriage as a procreative union between a man and a woman. They also have the negative right to not get married. No person has a natural and inalienable right to commit immoral acts, because by definition immoral acts will be contrary to their nature. Because of this, the state would be acting in contradiction to its function by creating a positive law to protect “rights” which do not exist, and thus it should not do so.
 
They are marginalized, but they still have equal rights. They have the same rights guaranteed under the constitution as all citizens. They have the same inalienable rights, endowed by their creator, as everyone else.

Overweight people have full rights, but they are often marginalized too. These two ideas (rights and marginalization) should be seperated.
 
Gays have the same rights as everyone else. Their problems start when they throw their lifestyles in the face of everyone else, and complain when other people object to TMI.
Well said.

I think it’s important to remember we are all children of the creator, and He loves everyone. Sometimes people of faith, sadly, look down their nose at homosexuals and forget that God loves them.

Having said that, I agree with Catholic1954-TMI is TMI-keep private things private.
 
I agree with rapunzel. They can live normal lives in society as long as they do 4 things:
  1. don’t look at me
  2. don’t touch me
  3. stay away from my children
  4. keep their sexual orientation to themselves
Being gay is nothing to be proud of. But if I were to start a “straight pride” rally, I would be automatically labeled as a “nazi” and “intolerant”. The obnoxious gays and lesbians don’t seem to understand the difference between “equal rights” and “silencing any views contrary to their own”.
Being gay is nothing to be proud or ashamed of. Same thing with being straight. It’s essentially an involuntary orientation. The actions committed however are a different story. However, an unrepentant and fornicating straight person is much much worse off than a celibate gay person. Indeed, one is certain to go to hell, while the other, having correct faith, would not.
 
To be honest about it, they seem to have more “rights” and “special attention” than “normal” people.

When was the last time you saw a “Straight Pride” parade? And, would such an event even get permission without enduring flak from the “Gay Rights” crowd?

At the public university I recently attended, the LGBT group was quite large and forceful, enjoying a lot of backing by the university hierarchy; on “Gay Day” everyone was urged to wear a “rainbow button” to show acceptance, endorsement and support; if I were to have worn a “I hate queers” button when I was there doing my grad-level work, I probably would have failed a couple of classes.

If Perez Hilton was an “ordinary” (straight-oriented) gossip journalist (my apologies to the real journalists who might be reading this), would he have the same audience as he does as a very vocal homosexual?

I don’t find my answer among the poll choices offered…
 
Yes-they have the same rights as do all Americans regardless of race, creed, gender or country of nationl origin
 
To be honest about it, they seem to have more “rights” and “special attention” than “normal” people.

When was the last time you saw a “Straight Pride” parade? And, would such an event even get permission without enduring flak from the “Gay Rights” crowd?

At the public university I recently attended, the LGBT group was quite large and forceful, enjoying a lot of backing by the university hierarchy; on “Gay Day” everyone was urged to wear a “rainbow button” to show acceptance, endorsement and support; if I were to have worn a “I hate queers” button when I was there doing my grad-level work, I probably would have failed a couple of classes.

If Perez Hilton was an “ordinary” (straight-oriented) gossip journalist (my apologies to the real journalists who might be reading this), would he have the same audience as he does as a very vocal homosexual?

I don’t find my answer among the poll choices offered…
Remember though-if you did wear the kind of pin you mentioned, that would be wrong as well.

I agree with what you said, it’s just important to remember not to sink to that level.
 
  • Are homosexuals marginalized in society? (ie, freedom of expression) - How and where if at all?
Rather, they, by their actions and behaviors, marginalize themselves.
  • Are homosexuals marginalized by the law?
    • If so with respect to what?
Is there a law which protects heterosexuals from hate crimes? If not, why not? I see ‘hate crimes’ laws, which seek to protect or defend those with SSA, as actually marginalizing them via providing legal protection for them - in practice endorsing certain forms of aberrant behavior. Thus, their sin becomes obvious to others.
What I tend to see on this board is one of two things, either a disconnect that gays are a marginalized minority group, or belief that gays have an overarching agenda to corrupt and plunge society into moral decay which makes it moral to discriminate against them. Tell me what you think!
Those who act on their SSA marginalize themselves, just as those who sin excommunicate themselves. It cannot be said in a blanket statement that SSA groups actively seek the decline of society, but their behavior and legal power feed this perception. This is the law of unintended consequences.

As a practical matter, the more emboldened any sinner becomes, the greater will be the backlash. How could ‘gay bashing’ exist if no one knew who was gay?

The Catholic teaching is that SSA activity is a sin, just as the act of stealing or assaulting someone is a sin. Now, a thief may be inclined to steal, but if he does not, does he sin? No. Does a violent man sin if he does not assault another? No. The argument is about controlling our baser urges and disordered desires.
 
Off the top of my head, homosexuals cannot serve in the military and have a civil union in Hawaii. Do you still believe the quoted statement is true?
There are all sorts of rectrictions as to who can be in the military. Serving in the Militray is not a “right” People who enage in homsoexual behavior have the exact same right to get married as do all Anmercans regardless of race, creed, gender or sountry of national origin
 
Being gay is nothing to be proud or ashamed of. Same thing with being straight. It’s essentially an involuntary orientation. The actions committed however are a different story. However, an unrepentant and fornicating straight person is much much worse off than a celibate gay person. Indeed, one is certain to go to hell, while the other, having correct faith, would not.
“It’s essentially an involuntary orientation.”? It is? How do you know that? Can you provide scientific information to back that up?

Thanks,
Ed
 
Off the top of my head, homosexuals cannot serve in the military and have a civil union in Hawaii. Do you still believe the quoted statement is true?
Homosexuals most certainly can serve in the military and, we are told, do. What they cannot do is openly express their homosexuality to their fellow soldiers.

People argue (and have in here) that since heterosexuals can tell their fellow soldiers that they have, e.g., a girlfriend or wife, that the government (the armed forces in this case) should officially adopt the position that homosexuality and heterosexuality are equivalent.

I am personally persuaded that the latter argument is absurd on its face because they are quite obviously not equivalent. One is a sexual perversion and the other isn’t. Of course, some argue that homosexuality is not a sexual perversion; that one’s belief that it is, is dictated by religion, etc, etc. But once one begins endorsing perversion from that which is natural, it seems to me there is no logical end to it. Ruth Bader Ginsburg seems to have endorsed the idea that the age of consent to sexual activity ought to be 12. Well, that’s quite possibly her belief, but it’s regarded as a perversion by most. Should soldiers be able to bring their underage lovers to live in base housing with them? Should those who like sex with animals be entitled to put Lassie on their allotments, or take Lassie to social events for couples?

If a soldier happens to be a member of one of those Mormon sects that believe in plural marriages, should that be acceptable if he brings his eight wives to social events for couples? Should they all be accommodated on base housing?

If a male soldier wants to be in drag all the time on base, should that be okay if it’s his sexual compulsion? Should that be his “right”, or should there be some semblance of societal standards applied?

For that matter, if a soldier wants to inform others on a more or less constant basis, that he performs repulsive acts with his girlfriend; let’s say sadism or some extremely degrading thing, should that soldier be allowed to do that? Should he be allowed to bring her to social events in chains, perhaps, and smeared with filth, just because his sexual compulsions drive him to do and display such things?

There has to be a line somewhere. Homosexual activists want the “normal” line to be moved to include their sexual proclivities, and, in wanting the abolition of “don’t ask, don’t tell”, they want the government to endorse the normalcy of their perversion. But once done, (and this government will probably do it) it will actually push other people onto the other side of the line. Perhaps it’s okay with some if the more traditional-minded people in this country discourage their sons or daughters from joining the military (or simply pass it up themselves) because sexual perversion is officially endorsed there, and because they will, in the military, be obliged to pretend, against their own beliefs, and against the beliefs of most in society, that it’s normal themselves. It’s hard for me to think it’s okay.

And what, precisely, would civil unions in Hawaii do for homosexuals that they cannot do contractually? I guess it would depend on how one wrote the law. But that isn’t the point, though, is it? Recognition of civil unions (or “gay marriage” for that matter) is, again, governmental endorsement of a sexual compulsion, of which there are many others. It is reasonably clear to me that “official sanction” in society is the objective, not the achievement of some kind of “right”.
 
“It’s essentially an involuntary orientation.”? It is? How do you know that? Can you provide scientific information to back that up?

Thanks,
Ed
Hi Ed. Did you choose to be straight? If not, then you can’t be held responsible for your orientation, since all acts of moral responsibility must be voluntary. Thus you should not feel proud or ashamed of it. I’m not sure why people would choose to be gay if they face so much ridicule, and have no other choice but to be celibate. If they could just go straight, allowing them to experience pleasure and still live moral lives, why would they choose otherwise? While the orientation is disordered, it is in no way immoral or should bring guilt upon the person. The Church teaches this exactly. Moreover, there are many gay Catholics who live highly moral lives celibately, under grace. Our very own Father Vincent Serpa interviewed one as an example for believers here:
catholic.com/thisrock/2009/0903fea1.asp

As for scientific evidence, read the wikipedia article on “Homosexuality”.
 
Hi Ed. Did you choose to be straight? If not, then you can’t be held responsible for your orientation, since all acts of moral responsibility must be voluntary. Thus you should not feel proud or ashamed of it. I’m not sure why people would choose to be gay if they face so much ridicule, and have no other choice but to be celibate. If they could just go straight, allowing them to experience pleasure and still live moral lives, why would they choose otherwise? While the orientation is disordered, it is in no way immoral or should bring guilt upon the person. The Church teaches this exactly. Moreover, there are many gay Catholics who live highly moral lives celibately, under grace. Our very own Father Vincent Serpa interviewed one as an example for believers here:
catholic.com/thisrock/2009/0903fea1.asp

As for scientific evidence, read the wikipedia article on “Homosexuality”.
Although wikipedia can be a good starting point for research, it cannot always be regarded as reliable.

There is serious concern in this country about orienting children toward certain sexual behaviors during a period in their lives where they are not yet physically or emotional or psychologically mature enough to fully comprehend.

catholicinsight.com/online/political/homosexuality/article_1001.shtml

Here is a statement from the Catholic Medical Association regarding homosexuality:

narth.com/docs/hope.html

God bless,
Ed
 
I agree with rapunzel. They can live normal lives in society as long as they do 4 things:
  1. don’t look at me
  2. don’t touch me
  3. stay away from my children
  4. keep their sexual orientation to themselves
Being gay is nothing to be proud of. But if I were to start a “straight pride” rally, I would be automatically labeled as a “nazi” and “intolerant”. The obnoxious gays and lesbians don’t seem to understand the difference between “equal rights” and “silencing any views contrary to their own”.
How would you know if someone gay looked at you or was by your children? The rights of gays is a serious issue, not just a “silence any contrary view”. What are you basing this off of?
Gays have the same rights as everyone else. Their problems start when they throw their lifestyles in the face of everyone else, and complain when other people object to TMI.
Example?
Hi Lynx. If you are asking the simple question as to whether they have equal rights, I would say yes. They have equal rights qua persons. If your question is whether they should have equal rights as persons, then I believe they should. Rights come from human nature and the perfection of it, as well as from God (as the constitution says rightly). The state serves as a means to the common good. Every person has the natural right to marriage, because it is perfective of the human nature and form, as well as as the race as a whole. Even homosexuals, properly speaking, have the right to marriage when we define marriage as a procreative union between a man and a woman. They also have the negative right to not get married. No person has a natural and inalienable right to commit immoral acts, because by definition immoral acts will be contrary to their nature. Because of this, the state would be acting in contradiction to its function by creating a positive law to protect “rights” which do not exist, and thus it should not do so.
Interesting position. So, in short, to preserve existing marriage legal dogma gays can’t be married to each other because it would infringe on their right to also marry non gay partners. Perhaps, marriage, recognized by law, should be done away with and let civil unions replace it. In this instance, all individuals could be partnered and receive the same benefits as everyone else, while at the same time reserving marriage to the religious institutions. Currently, this is not the case, and gays cannot marry each other due to archaic religious dogma.
They are marginalized, but they still have equal rights. They have the same rights guaranteed under the constitution as all citizens. They have the same inalienable rights, endowed by their creator, as everyone else.

Overweight people have full rights, but they are often marginalized too. These two ideas (rights and marginalization) should be seperated.
I disagree, rights and marginalization can easily go hand in hand. Example, in the early 1900’s blacks were marginalized which made it easier to deny them basic civil liberties, such as marrying a white partner. Gays have equal rights in that they all must follow a heterosexual culture in order to obtain them. Is this moral, I think not. Why should society have to change to support the minority? Probably the same reason white culture had to change to accommodate black civil liberties, an understanding of moral and societal responsibility.
Well said.

I think it’s important to remember we are all children of the creator, and He loves everyone. Sometimes people of faith, sadly, look down their nose at homosexuals and forget that God loves them.

Having said that, I agree with Catholic1954-TMI is TMI-keep private things private.
Which homosexuals do you talk to that openly discuss their sex life?
 
Hi Ed. Did you choose to be straight? If not, then you can’t be held responsible for your orientation, since all acts of moral responsibility must be voluntary. Thus you should not feel proud or ashamed of it. I’m not sure why people would choose to be gay if they face so much ridicule, and have no other choice but to be celibate. If they could just go straight, allowing them to experience pleasure and still live moral lives, why would they choose otherwise? While the orientation is disordered, it is in no way immoral or should bring guilt upon the person. The Church teaches this exactly. Moreover, there are many gay Catholics who live highly moral lives celibately, under grace. Our very own Father Vincent Serpa interviewed one as an example for believers here:
catholic.com/thisrock/2009/0903fea1.asp

As for scientific evidence, read the wikipedia article on “Homosexuality”.
Let me just point out that I don’t think anyone with an average IQ thinks homosexuals just woke up one day and conciously chose anything. Due to this, you are right that having a homosexual orientation is not in itself a sin, just the acts. However being openly homosexual and taking it as a positive part of yourself is at least imprudent because it is sexually disordered.
 
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