Do illegal immigrants sin mortally by living a lie?

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Fr. Ciszak used forged documens to enter Russia. He did so under instruction by the metropolitan of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in order to scout opportunities for evangelization in the communist nation. Did he sin?
 
CCC 2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
not paying taxes lest they betray their illegal status
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I just want to point out that most of them DO pay taxes, their taxes are withdrawn just like yours and mine. They may not file tax returns due to their status, and that likely means, they get no refund, since most of them are working poor.
 
Three conditions for sin to be mortal. Matter, knoweldge and free will. I cannot even fathom that someone who is running for their life and that of their family would be exercising free will.
 
FrancisFan43 said:
If a family of people broke into your house without your permission and than told you to feed them and pay for their education you would let them? I think not.
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Under ordinary circumstances, no. But a country is not a house. If my household had space and resources proportional to those of the U.S., and the family pledged themselves and their descendants to help keep the whole household prosperous in the future, then it might well be a good investment to provide for them for a time and educate the children so they can contribute to the family business.
 
godisgood77 said:
Reference to the avg cost of the trip? Is that coming from Mexico, other parts of Central or South America? Or simply flim flam statistics?? 😉
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Look it up yourself, there are sites that track the cost. It’s well above what people in poverty can pay.

Why don’t you instead try support the claim I disputed, that illegal immigrants come to the us because they are starving back home.
 
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Please either provide data proving that migrants are primarily middle class or admit that you don’t have any.

If we’ve discussed it before, provide it again. I read hundreds of posts on this forum and can’t possibly be expected to memorize all of them.
 
Theo520 said:
Look it up yourself, there are sites that track the cost. It’s well above what people in poverty can pay.

Why don’t you instead try support the claim I disputed, that illegal immigrants come to the us because they are starving back home.
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I tried… Couldn’t find any reference to the $8k that you put forward. I find it to be good practice to provide a source if you are going to put stats out there.

Relative to your point about reasons immigrants come to the US… I do not have stats to back up my opinion, but my sense is that you have mixed reasons. Economic poverty is certainly one. Fleeing oppression, war torn areas, governmental instability, seeking a better life/better opportunities and reuniting with family are other reasons I see… I tend to believe that these are the reasons people have always come to the US and part of the fabric of the country.
 
I’d worry more about our cooperation with how our immigration policies violate Matthew 25, honestly. The Final Judgment is all about how we have treated those who have not when we were the haves. Granted, we’re in the position of having two major parties that both seem to want to make some segment of the vulnerable they ought to be protecting into scapegoats. Still, I think it is a great mistake to waste any time wondering if strangers in this country are committing mortal sins by violating laws meant to turn them away. We ought to be wondering if our legitimate sovereign control over our borders is being maintained in a way that is consistent with Matthew 25. That’s the ball that is in our court.
 
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Living a lie is better than not living at all.
When your choice is to flee a country where you will be killed, your only choice is to seek refuge wherever you can, even if that means breaking immigration laws.
 
That is more strict than the Church’s teaching. Which is simply: there is no theft, if a reasonable person would give them the food.
 
godisgood77 said:
I tried… Couldn’t find any reference to the $8k that you put forward. I find it to be good practice to provide a source if you are going to put stats out there.
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I wasn’t the one who asserted they were starving

Your google skills are sorely lacking. First hit was NYT showing 6.5k in the first couple paragraphs.

That’s probably a year’s wages (middle class wages), something only the middle class can afford.

We don’t provide food aid to mexico because they don’t need it, their people aren’t starving. You are aware most illegals come from there, right?

EDIT - found the site that tracks this
Unauthorized Mexican immigrants usually pay $4,000 to cross the border on foot or $9,000 by boat [29] and there are an estimated 6.6 million of them living in the U.S. as of 2010. [30] The smuggling fee for unauthorized Central Americanimmigrants is currently between $7,000 and $10,000. [31] In 2010, there were an estimated 1.5million unauthorized immigrants from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras residing in the U.S. [32] Human smuggling fees | Open Borders: The Case
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Theo520 said:
First hit was NYT showing 6.5k in the first couple paragraphs.

That’s probably a year’s wages (middle class wages), something only the middle class can afford.
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Nice try. How about you try actually reading the article that you pulled up?. What It Costs to Be Smuggled Across the U.S. Border - The New York Times
It was an almost inconceivable amount of money for someone who earned just a few dollars a day picking coffee beans back home. But he wasn’t weighing the benefits of a higher-paying job. He was fleeing violence and what he said was near-certain death at the hands of local gangs.

“There’s no other option,” Mr. Cruz said. “The first thought I had was, ‘I just need to get out of here at whatever cost.’”
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And further down:
He usually earned $15 to $20 a week.
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Doesn’t sound terribly “middle class” to me.
 
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If someone comes to me hungry and I am able, I will feed them. If they work for someone I hire to do a job, I don’t check their ID. If they need healthcare I will help them to a hospital. If a mother needs something to care for their child, I will help them if I can. I believe that is what my Lord wants me to do.
I don’t believe He is asking me to pass judgment on them.
 
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blackforest said:
Nice try. How about you try actually reading the article that you pulled up?.
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Good to see you acknowledge my numbers were accurate.

They come to the US for $$$, not because of gangs, gangs don’t target coffee workers. But they have learned what to say to increase their chance of assylum

Remember that sad picture of the man who drowned with his baby girl? He exemplifies the motives, he came to the US to work for a couple years so he could buy his own house. He was employed and doing fine before he left. From their perspective it’s the Cali gold rush, and that’s why they take such risks.
 
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Theo520 said:
They come to the US for $$$, not because of gangs, gangs don’t target coffee workers.
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Coffee harvesters making $15.00 per week aren’t middle class.

Why would middle class people come to the U.S. for money? I’m middle class and would just apply for a job across town.
Theo520 said:
Remember that sad picture of the man who drowned with his baby girl?
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Anecdotes aren’t data. Show some data, please. Please prove to us that these migrants are “primarily middle class.”
 
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