Do illegal immigrants sin mortally by living a lie?

[HomeschoolDad]

not paying taxes lest they betray their illegal status

Please forgive me, nobody with a master’s degree in business (which I do have) has any excuse for being so ignorant about something like that. I was thinking of jobs which knowingly hire illegals and pay them “under the table”. I do realize that an illegal with a fake SSN and fake documents, working for a legitimate employer (who does not know that the SSN and the documents are fake), will have various taxes withheld, and could not get a refund if they didn’t file a tax return. I don’t know how the IRS handles those situations (and I’m sure there are many of them), and I should. Theoretically, tax compliance is voluntary, but try not filing a 1040 this year and see what happens. I need to read up on this. (And in any event, they pay sales tax. That, too, is a tax.)

Still, I think it is a great mistake to waste any time wondering if strangers in this country are committing mortal sins by violating laws meant to turn them away.

I just don’t want to see them burn in hell, and I honestly don’t think they will, I certainly hope not. One person committing one mortal sin, and dying with it unrepented (which means resolving not to commit it in the future), is worse than all the poverty and hardship on the planet put together.

Fr. Ciszak used forged documens to enter Russia. He did so under instruction by the metropolitan of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in order to scout opportunities for evangelization in the communist nation. Did he sin?

There is a school of thought that says lying to one’s oppressor, or to an unjust aggressor, is no sin. This is the same school of thought that defends the liceity of, for instance, lying to the Nazis about not hiding Jews in your house (when that is what you are doing), or creating fake documents to allow refugees to flee to safety. I am not going to make the assumption that the UGCC or Fr Ciszek sinned in so doing. Those who defend what the illegal immigrants are doing, could well respond that they are doing what they have to do, in the face of an unjust regime that turns away people in grave need, or that has occupied lands that they (arguably) have no right to occupy and “oppress” (by not allowing the lands to be repatriated). Using that line of reasoning, an irredentist Mexican could say “the real border is between (let us say) Texas and Oklahoma, and I don’t see any guards or any walls there, do you?”. To any American I would say “suppose Canada had taken Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, and Wyoming as the spoils of a hypothetical war 100 years ago, how would you feel about that?”.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

We don’t provide food aid to Mexico because they don’t need it, their people aren’t starving. You are aware most illegals come from there, right?

This also brings up another important point. We are all made to feel like heels at the prospect of not allowing Mexicans to come to the US to work, even if they come here illegally. But fact is, Mexico is not in the worst economic shape of any country in the world. It isn’t Liberia, it isn’t the DR Congo, it isn’t Niger. (Just as a side note, the safer and more correct pronunciation of that country’s name is “nee-ZHAIR”, to rhyme with “Pierre”. Their official language is French.) There is no mass starvation. There aren’t wars of ethnic cleansing or widespread humanitarian crises. It is just a country, by and large, of very modest means, compared to the US. If they didn’t have the rich neighbor next door — if the Rio Grande were a 2000-mile wide ocean between Mexico and Canada — would they still have such grave reasons for leaving? The key issue here may be “you’re next door, you’re rich, we’d like to come and work there, and make a better life for ourselves”. What if, for instance, there were jobs in Canada that paid $1000 per day with little if any skills required, and it were possible to sneak into Canada illegally, lie like a rug to avoid being caught and deported, live in the shadows, and make money hand over fist to send back home? Would some Americans try to do it? People living in poverty in central and southern Appalachia? People who have been laid off and have lost their homes? Would they risk their lives? You tell me.

That may be more of an analogue to the situation with illegal, undocumented immigrants, than the prevalent stereotype of the noble, industrious worker who is fleeing grinding poverty. I try to be as compassionate as I possibly can, but I also try to see things as they really are.

 

[Theo520]

What if, for instance, there were jobs in Canada that paid $1000 per day with little if any skills required, and it were possible to sneak into Canada illegally, lie like a rug to avoid being caught and deported, live in the shadows, and make money hand over fist to send back home? Would some Americans try to do it?

The gold rush and settlement of the western US was all about making money and a better life, they too took great risks and at great expense for the chance it offered. They weren’t fleeing abject poverty (those people too couldn’t afford the trip, a kitted wagon was expensive).

A modern example would be mostly young males going off to work in the oil patch. While they are legal, they take huge risks for personally great reward vs what they could earn at home.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

What if, for instance, there were jobs in Canada that paid $1000 per day with little if any skills required, and it were possible to sneak into Canada illegally, lie like a rug to avoid being caught and deported, live in the shadows, and make money hand over fist to send back home? Would some Americans try to do it?

Over 30 years ago, I had the choice of either staying where I was, and making very little money in a depressed part of the country, with no prospect of bettering my circumstances, or risking it all and moving to a prosperous area (metropolitan Washington DC), using my modest savings as a grubstake to get started. I did the latter and it worked out very well. So I kind of understand the concept of leaving everything behind with no assurance of success — it wasn’t dangerous, but I ran the risk of having to return home penniless with no job waiting for me when I got back.

 

[Theo520]

Over 30 years ago, I had the choice of either staying where I was, and making very little money in a depressed part of the country, with no prospect of bettering my circumstances, or risking it all and moving to a prosperous area (metropolitan Washington DC), using my modest savings as a grubstake to get started. I did the latter and it worked out very well. So I kind of understand the concept of leaving everything behind with no assurance of success — it wasn’t dangerous, but I ran the risk of having to return home penniless with no job waiting for me when I got back.

I did something similar, I went to Hong Kong to get my first regular job after college. Bought a plane ticket without any jobs lined up, just an assurance from some friends that you could find one once you got there. I wanted the experience of working abroad, the young take risks.

 

[Anrakyr]

Anecdotes aren’t data. Show some data, please. Please prove to us that these migrants are “primarily middle class.”

That’s surprising common actually. The thing is the further away the refugees come from the more likely it is. Many of these families give whatever they have left to coyotes to make it to the US. The poorer ones have to make it on their own.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Some end up in “indentured servitude” aka modern slavery to pay coyotes.

 

[Bernoulli]

Keep in mind, too, that those who are more open to life, who accept more children, grow in numbers exponentially. Those who contracept so as to have one or two children with a “perfect” life (or no children at all) will eventually be outnumbered by those who have more children, are glad to have them, and are content to live simply and in less than perfect circumstances.

This is why Japan, for example, doesn’t accept much immigration. Even if they suffer a low birthrate, they don’t want to be outnumbered by taking immigrants, who may grow faster.

 

[pnewton]

We must obey Just Laws. That includes the Immigration Laws of a specific country.

It would include just immigration laws, not unjust. This begs the question.

As to the OP, there is no “state of sin” for lying. If a lie is confessed, it is forgiven.

 

[phil3]

You can not be obligated to give to charity. I may very well be obligated to help, but that person is just as obligated to return the help.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Over 30 years ago, I had the choice of either staying where I was, and making very little money in a depressed part of the country, with no prospect of bettering my circumstances, or risking it all and moving to a prosperous area (metropolitan Washington DC), using my modest savings as a grubstake to get started. I did the latter and it worked out very well. So I kind of understand the concept of leaving everything behind with no assurance of success — it wasn’t dangerous, but I ran the risk of having to return home penniless with no job waiting for me when I got back.

Very similar to what I did. Things didn’t go as I had hoped, and I was reduced to seeking out jobs in retail clerking — not exactly what I had left home to pursue. Thankfully a human resources officer from a financial services company took pity on my foolhardiness and gave me an entry-level clerical job. This put me in a position to learn everything I could, and to build a career, which while never phenomenal, lasted 30 years.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Keep in mind, too, that those who are more open to life, who accept more children, grow in numbers exponentially. Those who contracept so as to have one or two children with a “perfect” life (or no children at all) will eventually be outnumbered by those who have more children, are glad to have them, and are content to live simply and in less than perfect circumstances.

Then Japan is going to age and shrink. Their call.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

As to the OP, there is no “state of sin” for lying. If a lie is confessed, it is forgiven.

I am referring to being obligated to tell lies over and over again, to construct a fake identity of sorts, to keep from getting in legal trouble or getting deported.

You didn’t say this, but I am not willing to concede that breaking the immigration laws, in itself, is any sin at all. A case can be made that they are unjust laws that can be broken, if one is willing to accept the consequences if they get caught (“purely penal laws”).

 

[pnewton]

You didn’t say this, but I am not willing to concede that breaking the immigration laws, in itself, is any sin at all. A case can be made that they are unjust laws that can be broken, if one is willing to accept the consequences if they get caught (“purely penal laws”).

It is interesting that you point this out. In the catechism, even when it does speak of breaking unjust laws, it does say there should be a willingness to accept punishment should it occur. This is something that a lot of youth forget when the protest or do various acts of civil disobedience.

One thing I would add to the OP, since no one should be playing conscience to another, if this issue is really one that the person is facing, case by case counselling should come from one’s priest.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

You didn’t say this, but I am not willing to concede that breaking the immigration laws, in itself, is any sin at all. A case can be made that they are unjust laws that can be broken, if one is willing to accept the consequences if they get caught (“purely penal laws”).

I’m not trying to form anyone’s conscience. I would say that confessors to illegal immigrants address these issues all the time.

 

[PetraG]

I just don’t want to see them burn in hell, and I honestly don’t think they will, I certainly hope not. One person committing one mortal sin, and dying with it unrepented (which means resolving not to commit it in the future), is worse than all the poverty and hardship on the planet put together.

People from lots of countries with lots of different circumstances and lots of different reasons violate immigration law. No, I don’t think overstaying a visa is a grave matter, per se. Yes, I think it is theoretically possible for a violation of national sovereignty to be a grave matter. For instance, supporting yourself by smuggling addictive substances across a border would be a grave matter. (Whether it is a mortal sin of course depends on whether the other aspects of a mortal sin are present.)

Mileage varies.

 

[Annie]

Christ told us we are obligated to help those in need. Consider the story of Lazarus and the rich man who never even noticed him.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I just don’t want to see them burn in hell, and I honestly don’t think they will, I certainly hope not. One person committing one mortal sin, and dying with it unrepented (which means resolving not to commit it in the future), is worse than all the poverty and hardship on the planet put together.

As I said above, I am not willing to assume automatically that breaking immigration laws is any sin at all. Some people think they are unjust laws, at least as applied to a poorer country bordering a much wealthier one, and the wealthy country not being willing to take in as many immigrants as they, in justice and charity, arguably should — “why are you so stingy with your bounty when your neighbors could use some help?”. Even if they are just laws, they could be seen as “purely penal laws” (not binding in conscience, but accepting the penalty is binding in conscience if one is caught breaking them). Americans tend to make the mistake of assuming that “what is legal is moral, and what is illegal is immoral”. Anyone who breaks the law is seen as a bad person.

I am only entertaining the possibility that the lies illegals have to tell (claiming to have an SSN that is not theirs, producing fake documents that say they are legal when they are not, possessing fake identification and using it to deceive others, etc.) are sinful, and if so, how sinful are they? We have to presume that they tell the lies because they have to, not out of some frivolous wish to deceive for light reasons.

Simply overstaying one’s visa is not lying, as long as no lies are told about one’s visa status. People from some countries get lawful visas, then come to the US not as tourists, but to work illegally sub rosa. They overstay their visas, then when they get ready to leave, they are basically told to get out (which they are doing anyway). I don’t think there is any civil or criminal penalty for overstaying a visa. Good luck getting one the next time, though — some might say “getting one visa, overstaying it, and having money to take back home with me, is better than not getting a visa at all”. I have had “friends of friends” and extended family who have done precisely that. The most the US can do is make it harder for people from those countries to get visas.

 

[upant]

claiming to have an SSN that is not theirs, producing fake documents that say they are legal when they are not, possessing fake identification and using it to deceive others, etc.

no one wants to acknowledge the bad aspects of illegal immigration. it seems many are wearing rose color glasses.

 

[blackforest]

I am referring to being obligated to tell lies over and over again, to construct a fake identity of sorts, to keep from getting in legal trouble or getting deported.

Here’s an interesting article on ethics of lying. Is It Ever Right to Lie? | Catholic Culture

Some moralists have argued that we are obliged to state the strict truth no matter what the consequences, on the principle that the end does not justify the means. But this makes a presumption that most thinkers would not admit: that the only reason to shy away from the truth is fear of an evil consequence. In the case of the murderous thugs, however, most people really believe it would be morally evil to reveal the location of the intended victim. It is, in fact, something that only an unimaginative coward would do.

A lie may therefore be justifiable if telling the truth, (“Actually, I’m undocumented. I broke an unjust immigration law to get here.”), would amount to greater evil, such as being returned to a deadly situation in one’s home country. In this case, the lie is largely one of justifiable self-defense, as well as defense of one’s spouse and children.