Do illegal immigrants sin mortally by living a lie?

[blackforest]

Instead of trying to make their house better they run away from the consequences of their decisions,

They decided to allow gangs to gun down their loved ones?

Their children, after being born on our soil, then have the ability to vote despite having no ties to our country, do.

Their ties are being born here, which makes them enfranchised citizens, not “foreigners” as you called them above. The concept of jus soli has been around since 1790 and isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

 

[upant]

I understand that many illegal immigrants, who have gotten into this country unlawfully, often at risk to their lives and those of their families, find themselves in a situation where they have to “live a lie” — using fake or stolen social security numbers, forged documents, lying about their immigration status, not paying taxes lest they betray their illegal status, and so on.

edited because someone flagged the comment and since there is no way to know what was flagged I deleted the entire comment. this flagging system is flawed.

 

[po18guy]

I have enough trouble answering for my own sins.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Since this country is so blessed with resources, I assume that God is substituting Godless citizens with God-fearing Hispanics.

That is very possible. Perhaps the meek inheriting the earth?

Keep in mind, too, that those who are more open to life, who accept more children, grow in numbers exponentially. Those who contracept so as to have one or two children with a “perfect” life (or no children at all) will eventually be outnumbered by those who have more children, are glad to have them, and are content to live simply and in less than perfect circumstances.

We can’t rely on immigration for population growth, letting people born of foreign nationals dictate the direction of our nation is suicide.

I thought this country was all about being free to be whatever you want to be. If you choose to assimilate, fine. If you choose to retain more of your native customs, folkways, food and drink, cultural attitudes, and so on, that should be fine too, it should be accepted as enriching and deepening our social fabric. We haven’t been a monoculture for some time now, and thank God for that.

Me too. I see only three main solutions to our current immigration problem:

1. Deport 12 million+ people.
2. Find a way to regularize their status.
3. Do nothing.

Is option one really viable, economical, or even moral? I don’t believe so. Doing nothing doesn’t solve anything either. So I think the only viable option is to find a way to regularize their status. Whether through a path to citizenship or by permanent residency. Then, they can transition into society smoothly, start paying taxes, etc. In the end, I believe this would help the economy.

We have a poor country next door with a long, easily traversed border (or at least it used to be that way), and we failed to safeguard it the way we should have. 12 million people got here. By and large they are giving far more than they take, and they enrich our country and its social fabric. Entire towns have been revitalized — Siler City, North Carolina is just one example. (Yes, that Siler City, the nearest metropolis to Mayberry.) And we really, really need people to offset a birthrate that would otherwise be declining. Rounding up 12 million people and sending them back would be sheer idiocy. Admitting that yes, you got us, your desire to come here was stronger than our border, would be the way to go. Then they should be summarily regularized, and we should tighten up our border (a physical wall the entire length of the border is not necessary) so that it doesn’t continue to happen, while at the same time making visas easier to get, so that the problem with illegals isn’t exacerbated.

 

[Trishie]

A blanket statement isn’t applicable.
As always, God alone knows the mind and true need of any person.

 

[Theo520]

No, the same reason stealing food when you are starving is acceptable.

But by en large, they are middle class in their home countries, they weren’t starving.

 

[HumbleIOughtToBe]

Hispanic immigrants are more likely to be Catholic and have more kids than their locally born counterparts.
What is politically convenient for us?

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Mark 12:17

“And Jesus answering, said to them: Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.”

We must obey Just Laws. That includes the Immigration Laws of a specific country.

All the land belongs to God, even Caesar was only a temporary custodian on God’s land.

Because there were no immigration laws hundreds of years ago, white people could take pretty much any land they wanted in America. Some historians are saying that the native Americans had undergone; the worst sustained human holocaust the world had ever witnessed.

How can you build a just law on immigration, when much of the land was taken by force in the first place?

 

[poche]

I read an essay written by the translator on the immigration raid in Iowa. In it he said that many of those who ewre arrested were illiterate and thought that the ‘fake’ documents that they had were legitimate.

 

[DIERM]

Their children, after being born on our soil, then have the ability to vote despite having no ties to our country, do.

“No ties”? They have the same ties that all Americans have…its called the Constitution:

Section 1, Clause 1, of the Fourteenth Amendment, reads: All persons born or naturalized in the United States , and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

 

[Maximus1]

Obviously " illegal aliens" are not fungible. Each is unique. Their history, their families etc.
First thought that popped into my head( an admission not an excuse) was Jesus.
The edict of Herod the Great to commit infanticide in Bethlehem, followed with an angel that came to Joseph and a quick departure into Egypt.
I guess you could call Mary, Joseph and baby Jesus refugees in today’s parlance.
They likely had little to nothing in terms of possessions. They crossed the border of a sovereign nation. They apparently lived there for a number of years while Jesus grew.
Of necessity Joseph would have had to earn a living and they would have had to have been welcome, at least locally.
Taxes were due in the Empire and the census would have revealed Jesus age and place of birth. Where Herod had ordered him dead. Some people welcomed the stranger.
Is there a sin involved here?

 

[godisgood77]

Yes
10 characters

No… as you say the laws are unjust. A family trying to get by is about a sin - venial or mortal. Of course their are criminals, but we have those everywhere; not limited to immigrant population

 

[godisgood77]

But by en large, they are middle class in their home countries, they weren’t starving.

Reference?

 

[CTBcin]

I thought this country was all about being free to be whatever you want to be. If you choose to assimilate, fine. If you choose to retain more of your native customs, folkways, food and drink, cultural attitudes, and so on, that should be fine too, it should be accepted as enriching and deepening our social fabric. We haven’t been a monoculture for some time now, and thank God for that.

I by no means believe in a sort of “monoculture”. I was responding to another posters concerns that immigrants wouldn’t be able to integrate into life in a new country. Or, more specifically, the concern of foreign-born people taking over or messing up our nation’s political system, or some nonsense like that.

We have a poor country next door with a long, easily traversed border (or at least it used to be that way), and we failed to safeguard it the way we should have. 12 million people got here. By and large they are giving far more than they take, and they enrich our country and its social fabric. Entire towns have been revitalized — Siler City, North Carolina is just one example. (Yes, that Siler City, the nearest metropolis to Mayberry.) And we really, really need people to offset a birthrate that would otherwise be declining. Rounding up 12 million people and sending them back would be sheer idiocy. Admitting that yes, you got us, your desire to come here was stronger than our border, would be the way to go. Then they should be summarily regularized, and we should tighten up our border (a physical wall the entire length of the border is not necessary) so that it doesn’t continue to happen, while at the same time making visas easier to get, so that the problem with illegals isn’t exacerbated.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Vico]

…

We can only properly judge that an act is in itself a grave offense.

Catechism

Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

 

[signit]

HomeschoolDad:

I understand that many illegal immigrants, who have gotten into this country unlawfully, often at risk to their lives and those of their families, find themselves in a situation where they have to “live a lie” — using fake or stolen social security numbers, forged documents, lying about their immigration status, not paying taxes lest they betray their illegal status, and so on.

Is it okay to steal someone’s social security number? does it matter if you are an illegal or can you do it just because you are poor?

if it is so bad that they need asylum, why are they only taking part of their family and sending support back to the rest? if the country is so bad why aren’t they bringing everyone over the border and stopping at the first safe space as the law calls for? why leave anyone behind to face the violence?

let’s be real, a lot of the people are coming for economics. does worldly gain justify using fake or stolen social security numbers, forged documents, lying? I’m glad I don’t have to judge.

When it comes to illegal immigration, I admit I’m somewhere to the right of Trump.

But I have never suggested in my many posts here that what they’re doing is a “sin” or whether the person is morally responsible for it.

I can say, as a matter of policy, what I think the U.S. policy should be regarding illegal immigration (generally no illegal immigration, and giving Americans priority over illegal immigrants for our resources).

But I can’t say that the specific individual who stole a SSN to obtain U.S. resources or who came over here to get health care and stick us for the cost of it is a “sinner” because I don’t know what that person is thinking. That person may think there’s a moral justification for it, especially if they think they’re doing it for their children.

 

[blackforest]

I, too, would like to see some data to back this claim.

 

[Sarcelle]

But that is easy for me to sit back and say, in that I am a US citizen living a comfortable life, and not having to commit continuous venial sins to keep my life from falling apart, and the lives of those I care about.

As a legal immigrant I can say the same thing.

I also know how stressful being an illegal immigrant is since I know quite a few. It’s like a sword that hanging over you that could drop on you any time. You could also be more vulnerable to predators who will take advantage of you.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I also know how stressful being an illegal immigrant is since I know quite a few. It’s like a sword that hanging over you that could drop on you any time. You could also be more vulnerable to predators who will take advantage of you.

I know people whose immigration status may be questionable. They don’t talk about it, and it is none of my business. I’ve found that they are very reticent to talk about their families, where they live, or where they come from in Mexico. One time I tried to strike up a conversation in Spanish (which I speak very poorly, but far better than most Anglos in the US) with a lady who I thought was one of my friend’s sisters, in the dollar store near my friend’s hair salon. It scared her to death! She may have thought I was an undercover ICE agent.

Would you want to live in the shadows like that? I wouldn’t.

So much is made in this forum about not “judging” people (even though it is a question of judging the objective sinfulness of behavior and its objective gravity, not the people’s souls). I don’t presume to judge people who live their lives on constant tenterhooks, fearful of being arrested and losing everything they have. I’m sure it’s no picnic.

 

[Sarcelle]

All of the people I know or used to know, who are here illegally, aren’t from Mexico.

They’re from Ireland, New Zealand and Canada and since they don’t fit the illegal immigrant who’s Mexican trope they’re for the most part not bothered by others.

They overstayed their visas but they have all since left the country.