Do Jews and Muslims pray to the one true God?

[Delta2]

I say that I pray to the same God as Abraham did, all those years ago. Was it some mirage that Moses spoke with face to face? I wouldn’t use such terms, myself. Were Elizabeth and Zechariah praying to a metaphor? These words are disturbing to me. God made a covenant with Abraham. He is the father of all who believe.

Rather, perhaps you mean that Psalm 145:3 Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; his greatness is unsearchable.

If we understood him, he would not be God.

Abraham when he was alive he didn’t understood all the mysteries of the plan of God, neither did he understood how his descendants should be numerous as the starts in heaven, or so bigger than grains in a sand of a beach

So what I was meaning is that God reveled himself to man gradually…in history, culminating in Jesus, being Jesus the pinnacle of God’s plan and promises

As for Islam, they just distorted either Judaism and Christians

The outsiders

 

[Pug]

So what I was meaning is that God reveled himself to man gradually…in history, culminating in Jesus, being Jesus the pinnacle of God’s plan and promises

Delta2, thanks for the clarification. This I understand, the gradual revelation of the plan. You mean like in Ephesians 3: 4 *By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
*

 

[planten]

However, would you admit there is a problem then? Because people are killed by means of Sharia-law all over the world but the Sharia law is not contained in the Quran. And if you as a Moslem dont see Hadith as a major authority for your life, then you are in the monority and you are not a good representative for Islam.

**The primary base is the Quran. I did not deny the importance of Hadith. But if you start giving references to Hadith against the teachings of Quran then it is bad. Do not say that Sharia law is not in the Quran. It is very much there.

The Hadith may only be explaining a few things of the Quran. There is nothing outside the Quran. The Hadith has to support and serve the Quran for its own authenticity.
Quran is not a leper that may need crutches. It stands on its own even without Hadith. But Hadith is also useful in the third place.to us Muslims
Please note it. Thanks.**

 

[planten]

Abraham when he was alive he didn’t understood all the mysteries of the plan of God, neither did he understood how his descendants should be numerous as the starts in heaven, or so bigger than grains in a sand of a beach

Wrong. Abraham knew everything. He prayed to his God and God revealed (replied) to him. How could it be possible that Abraham did not understand the message of God. The number being as gret the particles of sand can be under stood as a very great number. It need not be literal and please do not thing that Abraham was a dumb man. Thanks

So what I was meaning is that God reveled himself to man gradually…in history, culminating in Jesus, being Jesus the pinnacle of God’s plan and promises

**That is your idea. You are surmising. You are nobody in this field. God revealed things according to the capability of the men to understand things. And progress did not stop at the time of Jesus. Evolution continued.

Material and spiritual progress continued. Mankind was more capable to understand things in the time of Muhammad. That is why, hailing from the seed of Abraham, Muhammad was given a greater responsibility to preach and guide the whole mankind.

It is repeatedly mentioned in the Quran that Muhamamd should preach to the whole mankind. In the bible, we find only an obscure reference to such thing in the end part of four gospels, quite against the earlier part where it was utterly forbidden to preach to any non Jew. Jesus had said that it was not right to give the bread of the children to the dogs. Please read your bible carefully where Jesus was explicitly against saying even a word of advice to the non Jews.

The christians should do the same and not preach to any non Jew. They should do maximum preaching to improve the lot of their people who are going against the teachings of Jesus by indulging in wine and women and gambling…**

As for Islam, they just distorted either Judaism and Christians

The outsides

Not true.

 

[GraceDK]

GraceDK;3667631:

Grace, I am almost 49 years old. In my lifetime I have been proselytized by Christians numerous times, so many times that I could not count if I wanted to.

Good for you. Where do you live? I wanna come live there. Where I am the Christians are mocked. Christians are mocked by secular society and … Jews are mocked by the moslems… agh… my country is in a mess. Enough said.
However, you should know that Jehovah Witnesses are not regarded as Christians by the rest of the Christian world. Its like calling people Hindu who are in fact new agers and have some elements in their religion that differs enough from the mother religion to the extent that you can only call it a seperate religion.
I have also been proselytized to many times… mostly from atheists of course… but also from new agers and moslems and Jews… on Jew went as far as to tell me that Jesus was a bastard. Needless to say he should have gone back to his missionary school to learn a better tactiq.

In the last week alone, I have had Christians try to “share our faith” with me 4 times, not counting today outside Barnes and Noble, where a guy was handing out Chick tracts! Another was last week when a Jehovah’s Witness broke the law to obtain my home address to proselytize me.

Too bad… that was not nice of him/her… but hey, you gotta at least see the deed for what it was. It was done out of love. As I said, the JW are not Christians but it does not mean their intentions are not good at times. We have a story in the early desert fathers of a man who was wronged by another and had a case against him… I cant find it right now… but you have probably already guessed the outcome of the story.

Frankly, and I hope you won’t be offended at this, but if I never hear the name of Jesus again in my life I will be a very happy person. I have reached absolute saturation point with the “Christian message”. I know it inside and out, have studied the NT many times in my countermissionary work, and am so burned out by the Christian message that never hearing it again would suit me just fine.

HE why would I be offended. Come on. You talk to me as a Jew. I talk to you as a Christian. You sit here on a Catholic board …for a reason unknown to me. In your anti-missionary work I would think you would meet enough Christians so you would not have to sit here … where you will hear the Name Yeshua and Jesus all over again a million times. However… I do wonder. You say you read the NT many times in your countermissionary work. Did you ever attempt to read it objectively?
Anyway. Now that I got you here… I must admit I have only have one close orthodox Jewish friend in real life. She nearly became Christian at one time (not because of me though) but the rest of my Jewish friends are either Messianics or rather secular and most of the latter dont really have any knowlege about Sacred Scripture… needless to say that since they dont know their own they also dont know the NT.
Anyway… you have heard the Biblical prophesies about Christ from fellow Jews who are now messianics, right?.. and you have come to another conclusion than them. Thats valid…
I just gotta take the chance and ask you about the “miracle of the scarlet thread”. Since you know so much you will probably know exactly what I am talking about… if not, please tell me and I will explain. What is the Judaist approach to the scarlet thread and what happend around year 30?

Thanks for taking time to read this.
Shalom.

 

[GraceDK]

HashemEchad

Your religion would not exist if not for mine; your religion arose out of mine. Ours is the mother religion, yours is the daughter religion.

True enough… but again… the talk about religions is useless. Only Truth matters. But why do you call Christianity a daughter religion? You should rather call it a stranger and a parasite on Judaism, according to your beliefs, no?

**Yet somehow, your newer religion knows “the truth” that ours does not? **

We believe that the Messiah is a genuine part of Jewish revelation. So you have truth but the veil is yet to fall from your eyes. That is Christian belief. I dont mean to offend you… neither do I get offended if you say that I am a heathen or that my Lord is not the true Lord. Its sad that we dissagree, but I cannot blame you for these differences.

I think I gained a lot of insight on the thread where I asked people here what religion they would be if the Catholic religion did not exist.
Almost all of them said they would be Jews, many said, Orthodox Jews.

HE,
If the Catholic religion did not exist it would be because that the Messiah had not yet come. Now that He has come, people who were gentiles became Christians in the fullness of time just like Jews became fulfilled Jews (as we call those who believe in Yeshua).
Before Yeshua there was the old Israel… they had the very high Messiah-expectations at the time of the coming of Yeshua.
But until His death and ressurrection it makes no sense for gentiles to talk about being Jewish or Orthodox Jewish… before Christianity my ancestors were Vikings who believed in a multitude of deities. So whereas we do see Judaism as second best… it makes no sense to make this thought-experiement.

That was very revealing to me…it explained why Christianity wants so badly to be regarded as the “New Israel”, and why its so vital to them to “prove” that God has removed the chosen people status from the Jews (chas ve’sholom) and supposedly given it to Christians.

You say “Christianity wants so badly to be regarded as the “New Israel””… but you are wrong. We dont have to want something that we already are. We DO regard ourselves as the New Israel… even if it upsets you.
Also you are wrong to assume we teach that God is not faithful to Israel and the Jewish people… We believe that its against the very nature of God to not be faithful.

 

[Sam_777]

If the Catholic religion did not exist it would be because that the Messiah had not yet come. Now that He has come, people who were gentiles became Christians in the fullness of time

Thanks God The Most High for that.

 

[Delta2]

It is repeatedly mentioned in the Quran that Muhamamd should preach to the whole mankind. In the bible, we find only an obscure reference to such thing in the end part of four gospels,

You can’t just take a single verse from the bible

The Bible full denies the Quran, they are opposites

That’s why muslims says that was corrupted

It is the only way you find to justify a man like Muhammad

Islam cannot stand in front of intellectual questions because of contradictions in Koran, contradictions in Hadith, contradictions of false doctrines.

So they don’t want anybody to ask and to learn

quite against the earlier part where it was utterly forbidden to preach to any non Jew. Jesus had said that it was not right to give the bread of the children to the dogs.

He was testing that woman, the next verse He gave to that woman what She asked for

Why you ignore this ?

You just take a single verse from the bible to fit your faith in quran and that man Muhammad and that’s it

You even read the whole story, what intellectual discourse is this ?

The christians should do the same and not preach to any non Jew. They should do maximum preaching to improve the lot of their people who are going against the teachings of Jesus by indulging in wine and women and gambling

Again you have not read the bible, Jesus said :

(Matthew 28,19)
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Islam can’t face that and claims that that verse is corrupted or a later insertion…as always

Not true.

It’s true

You reject almost all verses of New Testament
You reject also the Talmud
The Jews only rejects the New Testament
The Christians don’t reject Talmud

You rely your fate, your soul, and your life, in a single crazy man and pedophile

I rely my fate, my soul, and my life not only because I believe in Jesus, but also because of the apostles, but also for all that saints who dismissed their lifes for Jesus, and also for all the martyrs who died in Coliseum of Rome by Nero Emperor

I rely my fate, my soul, in a community of saints and Jesus and God

 

[Nickkname]

Since God is the one true God, and Jews and Muslims believe in God, logically they pray to God.

 

[Delta2]

Since God is the one true God, and Jews and Muslims believe in God, logically they pray to God.

You should read this :

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

Lets put the things straight

If somehow they receive a Grace from God inviting them to the true path…and they deliberately say NO…they are condemned

**And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

Matthew, 12-32**

I think that grace is like a inner voice saying : come, come to me

There is some Catholics Apologetics in here, let them speak

 

[HashemEchad]

GraceDK:

This link should answer your question:

outreachjudaism.org/Yomkippur.html

 

[Nickkname]

MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS ADORE THE ONE GOD
Pope John Paul II​

**Like Christians and Jews, Muslims look upon Abraham as a model of submission to God’s will and know that in God we find our origin and end **

At the General Audience of Wednesday, 5 May, the Holy Father spoke about religious dialogue with Islam. While mentioning the point on which Christians and Muslims most differ, the mystery of the Trinity, the Pope also said that the two traditions “have a long history of study, philosophical and theological reflection, literature and science, which have left their mark on Eastern and Western cultures”, and “are called in one spirit of love to defend and always promote human dignity, moral values and freedom”. Here is translation of his catechesis, which was the 12th in the series on God the Father and was given in Italian.

1. Continuing our discussion of inter-religious dialogue, today we will reflect on dialogue with Muslims, who “together with us adore the one, merciful God” (Lumen gentium, n. 16; cf. CCC, n. 841). The Church has a high regard for them, convinced that their faith in the transcendent God contributes to building a new human family based on the highest aspirations of the human heart.

Muslims, like Jews and Christians, see the figure of Abraham as a model of unconditional submission to the decrees of God (Nostra aetate, n. 3). Following Abraham’s example, the faithful strive to give God his rightful place in their lives as the origin, teacher, guide and ultimate destiny of all beings (Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, Message to Muslims for the end of Ramadan, 1417/1997). This human docility and openness to God’s will is translated into an attitude of prayer which expresses the existential condition of every person before the Creator.

Christians and Muslims believe in the same God, the one God

Along the path marked out by Abraham in his submission to the divine will, we find his descendant, the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Jesus, who is also devoutly invoked by Muslims, especially in popular piety.

1. We Christians joyfully recognize the religious values we have in common with Islam. Today I would like to repeat what I said to young Muslims some years ago in Casablanca: “We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection” (Insegnamenti, VIII/2, [1985], p. 497). The patrimony of revealed texts in the Bible speaks unanimously of the oneness of God. Jesus himself reaffirms it, making Israel’s profession his own: “The Lord our God, the Lord is one” (Mk 12:29; cf. Dt 6:4-5). This oneness is also affirmed in the words of praise that spring from the heart of the Apostle Paul: “To the king of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen’”(1 Tm 1:17).

We know that in the light of the full Revelation in Christ, this mysterious oneness cannot be reduced to a numerical unity. The Christian mystery leads us to contemplate in God’s substantial unity the persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit: each possesses the divine substance whole and indivisible, but each is distinct from the other by virtue of their reciprocal relations.

1. Their relations in no way compromise the oneness of God, as the Fourth Lateran Council explains (1215): “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature… It does not generate, is not begotten and does not proceed” (DS 804). The Christian doctrine on the Trinity, confirmed by the Councils, explicitly rejects any form of “tritheism” or “polytheism”. In this sense, i.e., with reference to the one divine substance, there is significant correspondence between Christianity and Islam.

However, this correspondence must not let us forget the difference between the two religions. We know that the unity of God is expressed in the mystery of the three divine Persons. Indeed, since he is Love (cf. 1 Jn 4:8), God has always been a Father who gives his whole self in begetting the Son, and both are united in a communion of love which is the Holy Spirit. This distinction and compenetration (perichoresis) of the three divine Persons is not something added to their unity but is its most profound and characteristic expression.

Christians and Muslims must strive for peace and justice

On the other hand, we should not forget that the Trinitarian monotheism distinctive of Christianity is a mystery inaccessible to human reason, which is nevertheless called to accept the revelation of God’s inmost nature (cf. CCC, n. 237).

1. Interreligious dialogue which leads to a deeper knowledge and esteem for others is a great sign of hope (Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, Message to Muslims for the end of Ramadan, 1418/1998). The Christian and Muslim traditions both have a long history of study, philosophical and theological reflection, literature and science, which have left their mark on Eastern and Western cultures. The worship of the one God, Creator of all, encourages us to increase our knowledge of one another in the future.

In today’s world where God is tragically forgotten, Christians and Muslims are called in one spirit of love to defend and always promote human dignity, moral values and freedom. The common pilgrimage to eternity must be expressed in prayer, fasting and charity, but also in joint efforts for peace and justice, for human advancement and the protection of the environment. By walking together on the path of reconciliation and renouncing in humble submission to the divine will any form of violence as a means of resolving differences, the two religions will be able to offer a sign of hope, radiating in the world the wisdom and mercy of that one God who created and governs the human family.

To the English-speaking pilgrims and visitors the Holy Father said:

I extend a special welcome to the members of the Catholic Biblical Federation who are celebrating the Federation’s 30th anniversary, and I encourage you to do all you can to ensure that the inexhaustible riches of God’s word become ever more truly the heart of the prayer and daily lives of Christ’s faithful. Upon all the English-speaking pilgrims and visitors, especially those from England, the Philippines, Japan and the United States of America, I invoke the joy and peace of the risen Saviour.

---

Taken from:
L’Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
12 May 1999, page 11
L’Osservatore Romano is the newspaper of the Holy See.
The Weekly Edition in English is published for the US by:

The Cathedral Foundation
L’Osservatore Romano English Edition
320 Cathedral St.
Baltimore, MD 21201
Subscriptions: (410) 547-5315
Fax: (410) 332-1069
lormail@catholicreview.org

Source: ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MUSLM.HTM

 

[Pug]

**Material and spiritual progress continued. Mankind was more capable to understand things in the time of Muhammad. That is why, hailing from the seed of Abraham, Muhammad was given a greater responsibility to preach and guide the whole mankind.

It is repeatedly mentioned in the Quran that Muhamamd should preach to the whole mankind. In the bible, we find only an obscure reference to such thing in the end part of four gospels, quite against the earlier part where it was utterly forbidden to preach to any non Jew. Jesus had said that it was not right to give the bread of the children to the dogs. Please read your bible carefully where Jesus was explicitly against saying even a word of advice to the non Jews.

The christians should do the same and not preach to any non Jew.**

It seems that you are saying that there is a reference at the end of one of the four gospels that indicates that the disciples of Christ were to preach to the whole of mankind. Christians ought to follow this command. Here is the passage I think you may mean:

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Though, perhaps you mean:

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

I am uncertain which part you mean that takes place earlier in the gospels, but perhaps you mean the occasion where Jesus sends out the twelve on a specific mission, which is not to include the Samaritans or the Gentiles. It is like, a man could tell his son to go out fishing, and only return with flatfish, because it is for his mother, and she likes flatfish. But some years later, the mother dies. Now when the father sends his son out to fish, he does not ask for him to return with only flatfish. Instead, he wishes his son to return with any fish he catches that is good to eat. This is because the situation is now somewhat different. This is a very loose analogy.

Perhaps this other verse would be helpful to you. It is more in the middle of the gospels.

Mark 13:10 *The gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
*

 

[planten]

You should read this :

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

Lets put the things straight

If somehow they receive a Grace from God inviting them to the true path…and they deliberately say NO…they are condemned

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

Matthew, 12-32

I think that grace is like a inner voice saying : come, come to me

There is some Catholics Apologetics in here, let them speak

** Who is son of man in the above verse? And who is holy ghost please.??**

 

[planten]

It seems that you are saying that there is a reference at the end of one of the four gospels that indicates that the disciples of Christ were to preach to the whole of mankind. Christians ought to follow this command. Here is the passage I think you may mean:

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Though, perhaps you mean:

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

I am uncertain which part you mean that takes place earlier in the gospels, but perhaps you mean the occasion where Jesus sends out the twelve on a specific mission, which is not to include the Samaritans or the Gentiles. …
Perhaps this other verse would be helpful to you. It is more in the middle of the gospels.

Mark 13:10 *The gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
*

**There are contradictions. Jesus forbade his disciples to preach to any non Jew. That was the order of the day to the 12 disciples and also to the seventy preachers. We understand why he gave that order. It is easily understood. It was a divine command to him. He was a messenger of God and acting on the orders of God, as he mentioned it at many places that he was not doing anything from himslef but he was doing the will of God.

That was the will of God. He even did not like to preach or cure any non-Jew. The words he used were very clear (and bad words too) that it was not fair to give the bread of the children to the dogs. (Even though a true sentence but a bad analogy/ example.) It could not be any loving words.
As I said that there have been many manipulations in the bible for the last 2000 years (even today) and people found it necessary to add and open a gate to world-wide preachings which they were not really allowed by Jesus.

It was not the mission of Jesus to preach to any non Jew and he did never do it. Whatever he did not do himself then why he (Jesus) will tell his followers to do? That gate was opened by paul and he was nobody in that system…**

 

[Delta2]

** Who is son of man in the above verse? And who is holy ghost please.??**

“son of the man” is the title Jesus gave to Himself

Holy Ghost is the spirit of God

You believe in the verbatim word of God made text

We believe in the verbatim word of God made flesh

The unforgivable sin that throws a soul to hell is when someone, in some place feel something like a inner voice coming from inside of you

If your mind says Christianity is a hoax, but that inner voice says that it is not, and you keep insisting offending that inner voice…then you are in that verse

what only matters is loving God, the rest is superfluous

 

[Pug]

**He was a messenger of God and acting on the orders of God, as he mentioned it at many places that he was not doing anything from himslef but he was doing the will of God.

…

It was not the mission of Jesus to preach to any non Jew and he did never do it.**

Since Jesus only did the will of God, it must have been the will of God that he tell his disciples to *Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. *Jesus was not wrong to say this. He was obedient, and he would not have said this is if he were not supposed to. He did not lie or mislead his disciples.

Jesus did give his message to a non-Jew. He spoke with the woman at the well, who was a Samaritan. After their conversation, she went into the town and brought more Samaritans to hear the message, not from her, but directly from the source, and many of them came to believe from his word. The women at the well passage is found in John 4:1-32.

I’m worried, though, that this is straying too far from the topic of the thread.

 

[ralphinal]

Wow, this is some debate.

Jews are monotheistic. Muslims are montheistic. Same mono same theistic. The God of Abraham and Isaac is the same God that Muslims worship.

Jews are montheistic. Muslims are monotheistic. Christians are monotheistic. Here is were it gets more difficult. God cannot eb explained with human words nor comprehended with human understanding. WE can all agree on that. God the Father in Christianity is the same as the God worshipped by Muslims and Jews.

The Trinity is a human was to try to understand HOW God is. It fails as God is beyond us. We understand God to be One God with Three Divine Persons. That does not make sense in human terms, but we are discussing God. There is One God and only One God. Not three gods, not lesser gods or demigods. One and only One God.

A better question is if all three worship the same God, why are there different messages from Him and why do they seem so divergent at times?

 

[planten]

**As nickkname has written:

Like Christians and Jews, Muslims look upon Abraham as a model of submission to God’s will and know that in God we find our origin and end **. And…

Since God is the one true God, and Jews and Muslims believe in God, logically they pray to God.

That is very good. I feel that God is One. The Jews and Muslims believe it to be so. The christians are pressing ahead that God is only One. So no problem to me. That is all the best. We can agree that since God is One, the God of all, there is no other God, so that settles the matter for all of us. Thanks to that One God.

 

[GraceDK]

Wow, this is some debate.

Jews are monotheistic. Muslims are montheistic. Same mono same theistic. The God of Abraham and Isaac is the same God that Muslims worship.

Jews are montheistic. Muslims are monotheistic. Christians are monotheistic. Here is were it gets more difficult. God cannot eb explained with human words nor comprehended with human understanding. WE can all agree on that. God the Father in Christianity is the same as the God worshipped by Muslims and Jews.

The Trinity is a human was to try to understand HOW God is. It fails as God is beyond us. We understand God to be One God with Three Divine Persons. That does not make sense in human terms, but we are discussing God. There is One God and only One God. Not three gods, not lesser gods or demigods. One and only One God.

A better question is if all three worship the same God, why are there different messages from Him and why do they seem so divergent at times?

So what you are saying is that…
Well… Lets say I enter into the jungle and I find a group of half naked savages in there. They take me to the centre of their camp and show me a big oak. they say: "This is our god. There is no other god… We ask for rain and he gives rain…"etc. Now when you start interrogating them you find out that 300 years ago a caravan of Jews went through the forest. These Jews mentioned some names to the savages… the savages didn’t really understand much, but remembered the names and now they say: “yes-yes… also Adam and Abraham worshipped the one true god”. and then they bow down to the oak, sacrifice some children to it and pray to it for more rain.

Now the question is: Is that old oak tree the same god as that of the Christians and the Jews?
Know that if you say yes I find you no more illogical than when you say that Moslems worship the one true God.

See, its this simple. The son of filthy lies sent out a lying spirit around year 600 and that lying spirit posessed a man named Muhammed. Now you call his god the same as the Christian God… frankly I find that highly disturbing…