Do Jews and Muslims pray to the one true God?

[planten]

**
I have read all the posts. The post by the Cath-Philosopher is very good. So is the rewording of the question by Hashem_Echad. The three religions have basis in the teachings of Abraham and in his geneology. The Jews and the christians stem from the Issac, the son of Abraham. The muslim stem from Ishmael, the eldest son of Abraham. They are all blessed according to the bible Ot and according to the Quran.

The Quran has openly stressed and emphasised the blessings to all children of Abraham. In addition, the Quran has told that prophets were sent in every nation, i.e. many other nations who did not stem from Abraham. They may be Hindus or Budhists etc.

God is One. Whether the Muslims or Jews or christians understand him or not. It is true that Muslims and Jews obey and pray and worship the One and only God. Jews may call him YHWH and Muslims may call him Allah. The christians have the same God because God is only One. But they describe him differently. Description is not the same as that of the Jews and Muslims.

The christians strictly believe in Trinity. i.e. some three faced God. Muslims and Jews do not have such understanding of God. In Muslim theology, there is Kalimah, “La Ilaha Illa Allah”. meaning there is no god (none worthy of worship) except Allah/YHWH. To the Muslims, Jesus seems to be an Ilah ( some kind of God). Islam rejects all Ilah. The problem is there with the christians because they are hanging on to two opposite things, i.e. One God and Three Gods. And they want the Muslims to believe it. But they cannot explain how can there be three gods and one god.

So the Muslims have to decode the christian technology. Either christians believe in One God, the same as Muslims and jews. Or teh christians believe in three gods, for themselves only. In that case they will part ways with the Jews and the Muslims.

The church has got many complex theories which are not possible / understandable. They give more than one status to Jesus. That he is a man amd a son of man and a god and a son of a god and a prophet and a messenger and a teacher and a human, all at the same time.

The Muslims (and the Jews also, I hope) do not believe that man can be god or god can become a man unless symbolically / metaphorically. The God and the Men and the angels belong to different category. But christians have got it all mixed up. This things has to be clarified. If a man can be God then all is upset and there is no monotheism in christianity.

The Jews and Muslims have same understanding of the One and true God. The christians should join hands with them. They are already halfway on the right track because they say “God is only One.” So they should stop there. But then they say that Jesus is a God and that Jesus created the heaven and the earth and everything else. So the church parts way with the Jews and the muslims in that belief.**

 

[Irenaeus07]

You are the same as your Islamic prophet, humiliating others…

I am Christian, thank you very much.

 

[GraceDK]

Come on brother. If you were Muslim before, you were definitely an ignorant Muslim. One of the things I dislike, is dishonesty.

A Muslim is suppose to be just, a Christian is suppose to be just.

Yet if we speak of the same Justice then how is it that I shiver at the justice of Muhammed?

They brought a thief to Muhammed. What did he do? he cut of first his right hand, then his left hand, then one foot, then the other… as an example… Muhammed was a terrorist and an liar and a murderer… a son of darkness… Yet you want to call him an angel… a messenger from the one true God. Shame on you.

Then there is Judas… the thief… what does Jesus do? He calls him “my friend” and He lets him take care of the treasure-box.

If you believe in the new covenant, the law of Love, that came with Christ, you cannot also call a man who behaves acts, and speaks like a demon, a messenger from God…

I could make my own religion any day… say that I only believe in one god and that its the god of abraham… but it certainly would not make my religion true…

Catholic brothers and sisters… really! who has bewitched you?

 

[Sam_777]

They brought a thief to Muhammed. What did he do? he cut of first his right hand, then his left hand, then one foot, then the other… as an example… Muhammed was a terrorist and an liar and a murderer… a son of darkness… Yet you want to call him an angel… a messenger from the one true God. Shame on you.

Then there is Judas… the thief… what does Jesus do? He calls him “my friend” and He lets him take care of the treasure-box.

Enough said.

 

[planten]

I am Christian, thank you very much.

Yes, I believe that the friend Irenaeus07… is a christian. There is no need to doubt the declared faith of any person here. But the posts of Irena… are very good. At least they are honest and appealing and peaceful and more near to the way of Jesus.

That is the good way. The posts of Sam777 would not hurt any one if they were based on truth (honesty). We Muslims would welcome any fruitful, constructive blames from any one. But it should be honest report. Similarly, we Muslims should not blame the christians for something that is untrue. Thanks to Irenaeus07 for given us a good lesson.

 

[GraceDK]

You have it all backward. Jews and Muslims worship the One True God, in fact we are known for being genuine monotheists!

The real question has been, are CHRISTIANS worshipping only One God, since they believe in a trinity!

Dear HashemEchad

This verse is dedicated to you: Proverbs 30,4:

"Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who gathered up the winds in the hollow of His Hands? Who wrapped up the waters in His cloak? Who established the ends of the earth?
What is the name of Him, and what is the name of His Son. You know it!"

Jewish friend. Christian theology teaches us that the Jews will be blinded a little while for the Gentile to have the chance of Salvation… Salvation coming from the Jews in the Person of Yeshua. However, the Jewish people is the first Ecclesia and will never be forgotten until the day of the coming of the Messiah. That is the second coming for us… the first one for the Jews.

In the book of Zacharias it is written: (and please dont be scared):
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitantsof Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication,. They will look on Me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only Child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn child."

We believe this will be the day of the second coming. And there will mourning in us all… also in His won people. But we await the day with longing… such as you do yourself too…

Tell me Hashem Echad… is it not true that the Talmud foresees a messiah who is, among many titles called, “Ben Yosef”?

Baruch Hashem!

 

[planten]

Yet if we speak of the same Justice then how is it that I shiver at the justice of Muhammed?

They brought a thief to Muhammed. What did he do? he cut of first his right hand, then his left hand, then one foot, then the other… as an example… Muhammed was a terrorist and an liar and a murderer… a son of darkness… Yet you want to call him an angel… a messenger from the one true God. Shame on you.

Quite untrue post. There is no truth in it. Absolutely false.

Then there is Judas… the thief… what does Jesus do? He calls him “my friend” and He lets him take care of the treasure-box.

Quite wrong, illogical and unnatural behaviour being attached to Jesus. He was kind and wanted to follow the law of Moses and he did it too. But the rest is all untrue.

If you believe in the new covenant, the law of Love, that came with Christ, you cannot also call a man who behaves acts, and speaks like a demon, a messenger from God…

That is unture. Niether Moses nor Jesus nor Muhammad were possessed by the demon. The person writing here may be possessed by the demon. That is more likely.

I could make my own religion any day… say that I only believe in one god and that its the god of abraham… but it certainly would not make my religion true…

Naturally, if you were not appointed by God and you had no communion from God then your declaration would be untrue and even God will not let you flourish. God will deal sternly with you if you were an imposter speaking for God.

Catholic brothers and sisters… really! who has bewitched you?

Let the Catholic brothers and sisters reply if they have been bewitched. We do not feel that they are under any spell. Most of them are learned honest God fearing people on this forum.

 

[HashemEchad]

Dear HashemEchad

This verse is dedicated to you: Proverbs 30,4:

"Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who gathered up the winds in the hollow of His Hands? Who wrapped up the waters in His cloak? Who established the ends of the earth?
What is the name of Him, and what is the name of His Son. You know it!"

Jewish friend. Christian theology teaches us that the Jews will be blinded a little while for the Gentile to have the chance of Salvation… Salvation coming from the Jews in the Person of Yeshua. However, the Jewish people is the first Ecclesia and will never be forgotten until the day of the coming of the Messiah. That is the second coming for us… the first one for the Jews.

In the book of Zacharias it is written: (and please dont be scared):
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitantsof Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication,. They will look on Me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only Child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn child."

We believe this will be the day of the second coming. And there will mourning in us all… also in His won people. But we await the day with longing… such as you do yourself too…

Tell me Hashem Echad… is it not true that the Talmud foresees a messiah who is, among many titles called, “Ben Yosef”?

Baruch Hashem!

I am very familiar with those passages; missionaries use them quite a bit. I have been a volunteer countermissionary for 30 years; I’ve heard all the arguments, been “witnessed” to more times than I care to remember (including as recently as last week), and its all old hat to me, truly.

I could answer everything here but not only would it take this thread off topic, it would take up way too much typing time. In the meantime, check out: messiahtruth.com for the replies to the verses you quoted.

As for your last question, that is from the Zohar, something Christians do not acknowledge as inspired. And you have grossly misunderstood it, as Christians do with all of our sacred scriptures.

Tell me, how would Christians feel if Jews or Muslims took the NT, mistranslated it from the Greek and/or distorted it out of context, and then tried using it to convert Christians to our religions?

You’d be very annoyed, wouldn’t you? As you would have a right to be! Well, that is how we feel when you do the exact same thing to us and our scriptures.

 

[Valke2]

Dear HashemEchad

Tell me Hashem Echad… is it not true that the Talmud foresees a messiah who is, among many titles called, “Ben Yosef”?

Baruch Hashem!

Ben Yosef is believed to be a minor messiah who may or may not appear before “The Messiah” comes.

 

[Irenaeus07]

Yet if we speak of the same Justice then how is it that I shiver at the justice of Muhammed?

They brought a thief to Muhammed. What did he do? he cut of first his right hand, then his left hand, then one foot, then the other… as an example… Muhammed was a terrorist and an liar and a murderer… a son of darkness…

I am not familiar with any such tradition among the Muslims. We as Christian should critisize Muslims for what they actually believe and how they understand each verse and hadith which we quote against them. It is wrong to ramdomly quote verses or hadiths and to interpret them based our understanding of them.

It is the belief of the Sunni Muslims, that Muhammad never killed anyone by his hand.

It is the belief of the Christian that Jesus never picked up a sword, as this was expressed by my priest.

While the Muslims argue this and the Christian argue this, Christian tell Muslims, well even if we accept that is true, many people have died under his command.

We Christian argue the above, yet Jesus may not have picked up a sword, but told His disciples to sell their garments to buy swords.

The point is, we can argue anything and explain away anything but, should argue with truth and with objectivety as much as possible. And be just. Just as we can take things out of context, so can muslim take the bible out of context as well.

Yet you want to call him an angel… a messenger from the one true God. Shame on you.

Well,

1- I don’t call him an angel,

2- I don’t call him a messenger of God, in fact, I question his prophethood within the Judai-Christian tradition.

If you believe in the new covenant, the law of Love, that came with Christ, you cannot also call a man who behaves acts, and speaks like a demon, a messenger from God…

I don’t think the law of Muhammad is any less or more brutal than the Law of Moses, if you would actually sit down and study the Law of Moses, and how the Jews understood and implimented those laws.

The Law of Moses dictates that a person who unable to make restitution for the things they have stolen are to be sold into slavery.

If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep. … If he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. – Exodus 22:1-3

The Quran says that we should cut off their hands.

As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. – Quran 5:38

So which is more brutal???

If you ask me, I would rather have my hands cut off than to be sold into slavery.

We must be just in our argumentation. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and Light. And you cannot be of Jesus unless you are truthful.

And our Lord Knows best.

 

[GraceDK]

Brother Catholics… I see that you defend idols in order to preserve peace?

To HashemEchad:
There is nothing new in my post… Very well. Then why are you disturbed? Dont you know that we as Christians have been commanded to love and to show our love therein that we spread the Good News of Salvation? You know that we are missionaries everyone of us according to our calling, so why be offended when I show you passages that I know well wont change your mind, but just to stir the trinity-debate a little bit…? Why dont you give me the Jewish explanation for the passages that offended you… istead of pointing me to other teachers. YOU can tell me who the “son of god” is in that passage… and “me whom they have pierced”… I too have studied some in Jewish apogetics against the case of Yeshua, but have found it unsufficient. However insulted you may be now - and I’d say dont go to a page like this if you cant stand a Christian - my point was rather to say I look forward to the day of the coming of the Messiah where we as Jews and Christians can celebrate together. You must be able to amen at least that, as a Jew.

To the Moslems… okay… you accuse me of lying. But lying has to be done deliberately … I am only quoting your own tradition which I learned from ex-islamists.
If you want to argue against that then talk to them… since they are the ones spreading venom about the religion they used to have:

**Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:

Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.” Allah’s Apostle said, “I recommend that you sh ould join the herd of camels.” So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails, which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died.

And from Partial Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4339

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) Said: The blood of a Muslim man who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle should not lawfully be shed except only for one of three reasons: a man who committed fornication after marriage, in which case he should be stoned; one who goes forth to fight with Allah and His Apostle, in which case he should be killed or crucified or exiled from the land; or one who commits murder for which he is killed.

The more I read the more I questioned the sense of Justice of Muhammad. The following is very disturbing. I dare to say that any man who reads it and is not taken aback with disgust has a long way to go to become a human.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

I felt the above story was a manifest injustice. Muhammad condoned a man killing a pregnant mother and his own unborn child just because he said that she insulted the Prophet!

(Arabs used to sleep with their maid slaves. Quran perpetuates this tradition Q.33: 52 Muhammad himself slept with Mariyah the maid slave of Hafsa his wife without marrying her.)

Forgiving someone for killing another human being just because he said she insulted Muhammad is unacceptable. What if that man was lying to escape punishment? What does this story say about Muhammad’s sense of Justice? During the past 1400 years, how many husbands escaped punishment for killing their innocent wives by accusing them of blaspheming the prophet of God and this Hadith made them get away with it?

Here is another one:
Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4349

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.**

The sources for this was taken from islam-watch.org

 

[planten]

**
GraceDK, please do not indulge in Hadith too much. Come to the Quran. Hadith is only slightly better than the bibleNT in reliance and status. It is man made. Much care had been taken in the collection of the Hadith. But still, soon after the prophet passed away, there was political struggle and people became divided.

Some groups invented and inserted or activated the Hadith amongst people. Imam Bukhari had collected many Hadith and it is known that he kept a good record of thousands of false Hadith. So you can imagine that it is not necessary to indulge in doubtful / complicated Hadith which do not reflect the real life of the prophet. The real life of the prophet is very much described in the Quran and his entire life was a practice of the Quran.

So please drop all your arguments which you have based on the Hadith. Take up something from the Quran.**

 

[GraceDK]

**
GraceDK, please do not indulge in Hadith too much. Come to the Quran. Hadith is only slightly better than the bibleNT in reliance and status. It is man made. Much care had been taken in the collection of the Hadith. But still, soon after the prophet passed away, there was political struggle and people became divided.

Some groups invented and inserted or activated the Hadith amongst people. Imam Bukhari had collected many Hadith and it is known that he kept a good record of thousands of false Hadith. So you can imagine that it is not necessary to indulge in doubtful / complicated Hadith which do not reflect the real life of the prophet. The real life of the prophet is very much described in the Quran and his entire life was a practice of the Quran.

So please drop all your arguments which you have based on the Hadith. Take up something from the Quran.**

However, would you admit there is a problem then? Because people are killed by means of Sharia-law all over the world but the Sharia law is not contained in the Quran. And if you as a Moslem dont see Hadith as a major authority for your life, then you are in the monority and you are not a good representative for Islam.

 

[HashemEchad]

Brother Catholics… I see that you defend idols in order to preserve peace?

To HashemEchad:
There is nothing new in my post… Very well. Then why are you disturbed? Dont you know that we as Christians have been commanded to love and to show our love therein that we spread the Good News of Salvation? You know that we are missionaries everyone of us according to our calling, so why be offended when I show you passages that I know well wont change your mind, but just to stir the trinity-debate a little bit…?To the Moslems… okay… you accuse me of lying. But lying has to be done deliberately … I am only quoting your own tradition which I learned from ex-islamists.
If you want to argue against that then talk to them… since they are the ones spreading venom about the religion they used to have:

Grace, I am almost 49 years old. In my lifetime I have been proselytized by Christians numerous times, so many times that I could not count if I wanted to.

In the last week alone, I have had Christians try to “share our faith” with me 4 times, not counting today outside Barnes and Noble, where a guy was handing out Chick tracts! Another was last week when a Jehovah’s Witness broke the law to obtain my home address to proselytize me.

Frankly, and I hope you won’t be offended at this, but if I never hear the name of Jesus again in my life I will be a very happy person. I have reached absolute saturation point with the “Christian message”. I know it inside and out, have studied the NT many times in my countermissionary work, and am so burned out by the Christian message that never hearing it again would suit me just fine.

 

[Delta2]

No, both muslims and jews pray to a metaphor of the True God, i.e., their God is a mirage of the True God

They know Him, but blindly, they don’t know the way catholics do

 

[HashemEchad]

No, both muslims and jews pray to a metaphor of the True God, i.e., their God is a mirage of the True God

They know Him, but blindly, they don’t know the way catholics do

Let me get this straight: Catholics (who believe in a trinity, or 3-part deity), are somehow true monotheists, but Orthodox Jews and Muslims, who believe in One God with NO parts or persons, are somehow NOT true monotheists?

 

[Delta2]

Let me get this straight: Catholics (who believe in a trinity, or 3-part deity), are somehow true monotheists, but Orthodox Jews and Muslims, who believe in One God with NO parts or persons, are somehow NOT true monotheists?

Can a Dog understand the nature of a Human Being ?

So, you can’t understand the nature of God and the Trinity Concept

You pray to God of Abraham, and that’s great, Jewish do the same

But Jesus revealed more secrets about God that was hidden since prehistoric times

You are stuck in that time, whatsoever

 

[HashemEchad]

Can a Dog understand the nature of a Human Being ?

So, you can’t understand the nature of God and the Trinity Concept

You pray to God of Abraham, and that’s great, Jewish do the same

But Jesus revealed more secrets about God that was hidden since prehistoric times

You are stuck in that time, whatsoever

My religion was the first monotheistic faith. It is known as Judaism.

Your religion would not exist if not for mine; your religion arose out of mine. Ours is the mother religion, yours is the daughter religion.

Yet somehow, your newer religion knows “the truth” that ours does not?

I think I gained a lot of insight on the thread where I asked people here what religion they would be if the Catholic religion did not exist.

Almost all of them said they would be Jews, many said, Orthodox Jews.

That was very revealing to me…it explained why Christianity wants so badly to be regarded as the “New Israel”, and why its so vital to them to “prove” that God has removed the chosen people status from the Jews (chas ve’sholom) and supposedly given it to Christians.

 

[Pug]

No, both muslims and jews pray to a metaphor of the True God, i.e., their God is a mirage of the True God

They know Him, but blindly, they don’t know the way catholics do

I say that I pray to the same God as Abraham did, all those years ago. Was it some mirage that Moses spoke with face to face? I wouldn’t use such terms, myself. Were Elizabeth and Zechariah praying to a metaphor? These words are disturbing to me. God made a covenant with Abraham. He is the father of all who believe.

Rather, perhaps you mean that Psalm 145:3 Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; his greatness is unsearchable.

If we understood him, he would not be God.

 

[Delta2]

My religion was the first monotheistic faith. It is known as Judaism.

Your religion would not exist if not for mine;

Definitely

neither Islam would ever existed

You have a better understanding of God than Islam

your religion arose out of mine. Ours is the mother religion, yours is the daughter religion.

yes, again, didn’t said the contrary

Yet somehow, your newer religion knows “the truth” that ours does not?

Sometimes the youngsters understands far better the modern world that the previous generation, this can be applied to Islam if they were not so heretics - they are the outsiders, a bad-formed baby of the mother Judaism

I thing, because I sincerely don’t know, that we share precisely the same books of the Old Testament

And this what I was meaning

I think I gained a lot of insight on the thread where I asked people here what religion they would be if the Catholic religion did not exist.

Me, probably could have been Jew, or Agnostic

Never muslim