Do LDS baptize converts immediately?

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca, I’m sorry you do not understand my words. I have tried to speak as plain as word can be. But the things of the spirit are understood by the spirit and in no other way. Also, if I quote scripture in what I say I will not apologize for it. They are in my head and the words of scripture are spirit and they are life.

It appears the days are indeed upon us of which Amos spoke, “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, That I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord” (Amos 8:11). It matters not if the words come from the Bible or the Book of Mormon. It appears one is outright rejected without a thought and the other is explained away.

In a like manner you will reject these words: “But the hour cometh, and now is when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him. For unto such hath God promised his Spirit, And they who worship him, must worship him in spirit and in truth” (John 4:23-24 Joseph Smith Translation).

Years ago, I was walking from my office to a restaurant for lunch, on South Temple, across the street from your temple. There was a man sitting on the edge of the planters they used to have there. He was dressed in robes, like he thought he was Jesus, or maybe thought a true disciple of Jesus should dress that way, who knows. He wasn’t sitting quietly, he was yelling at the crowds walking by him, the same kind of stuff you’ve posted here and in your post prior to, me.

Fast forward to a couple of years ago. I was working at a shared downtown office location. Where, there’s just cubicles and you pick one, so I pick one that happened to be nearby two men who were working together. i caught part of their conversation, where one was giving the other advise. Telling him that he is the one who has “the priesthood”, and so has special insight of the spirit, and should intervene to help a young woman who didn’t have this special, whatever it is you think you have.

This is what you are doing. You think you’re all that and a bag of chips, spiritually speaking, because of your beliefs, of course. But I’m here to tell you, the emperor has no clothes. You use Christian scripture, blaspheming, against the truth and think that is “the spirit”. Your use of scripture, and your orientation towards what you think is the spirit is nonsense, and your tone is of someone who is either high, or missing a few birds on the antenna.

All in charity!

-Rebecca

 

[twopekinguys]

missing a few birds on the antenna.

All in charity!

-Rebecca

Consider this officially STOLEN…LOL :tiphat:

 

[Janderich]

Years ago, I was walking from my office to a restaurant for lunch, on South Temple, across the street from your temple. There was a man sitting on the edge of the planters they used to have there. He was dressed in robes, like he thought he was Jesus, or maybe thought a true disciple of Jesus should dress that way, who knows. He wasn’t sitting quietly, he was yelling at the crowds walking by him, the same kind of stuff you’ve posted here and in your post prior to, me.

Fast forward to a couple of years ago. I was working at a shared downtown office location. Where, there’s just cubicles and you pick one, so I pick one that happened to be nearby two men who were working together. i caught part of their conversation, where one was giving the other advise. Telling him that he is the one who has “the priesthood”, and so has special insight of the spirit, and should intervene to help a young woman who didn’t have this special, whatever it is you think you have.

This is what you are doing. You think you’re all that and a bag of chips, spiritually speaking, because of your beliefs, of course. But I’m here to tell you, the emperor has no clothes. You use Christian scripture, blaspheming, against the truth and think that is “the spirit”. Your use of scripture, and your orientation towards what you think is the spirit is nonsense, and your tone is of someone who is either high, or missing a few birds on the antenna.

All in charity!

-Rebecca

Rebecca, Why have you stooped so low as to call me names? I have shared with you the plain truth. Paul when brought in front of Festus was also accused of being crazy, "Festus exclaimed, “You are out of your mind, Paul! Too much learning is driving you insane!” (Acts 26:24). I, like Paul, am simply speaking the sober truth.

Further, I do not consider myself above you. But I have been disappointed that you will not acknowledge the role of the Holy Ghost in conversion and baptism. You who are involved in the RCIA and should know these things.

 

[Stephen168]

. But I have been disappointed that you will not acknowledge the role of the Holy Ghost in conversion and baptism. You who are involved in the RCIA and should know these things.

The Holy Ghost has a big role in conversion. BUT

After hundreds of words you have not been able to tell how you know it is the Holy Ghost talking to you and not a warm feeling, or the devil himself.
No Mormon has been able to do so. I’ll have to give you create for being the only one to try. But in the end it is just incoherent ramblings, so far.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca, Why have you stooped so low as to call me names? I have shared with you the plain truth. Paul when brought in front of Festus was also accused of being crazy, "Festus exclaimed, “You are out of your mind, Paul! Too much learning is driving you insane!” (Acts 26:24). I, like Paul, am simply speaking the sober truth.

Further, I do not consider myself above you. But I have been disappointed that you will not acknowledge the role of the Holy Ghost in conversion and baptism. You who are involved in the RCIA and should know these things.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca, Why have you stooped so low as to call me names? I have shared with you the plain truth. Paul when brought in front of Festus was also accused of being crazy, "Festus exclaimed, “You are out of your mind, Paul! Too much learning is driving you insane!” (Acts 26:24). I, like Paul, am simply speaking the sober truth.

Further, I do not consider myself above you. But I have been disappointed that you will not acknowledge the role of the Holy Ghost in conversion and baptism. You who are involved in the RCIA and should know these things.

You and I aren’t talking about the same thing, when we discuss God, including the Holy Spirit.

You are discussing a feeling. But as has been pointed out, you can’t say what you know, other than what you feel.

It is the Holy Spirit who converts people to Christ. As I said, not to Joseph Smith. We can know, already, that all LDS claims are from a false prophet, so any claims of conversion are not to truth.

What I see, clearly, are attempts to legitimize a feeling by using scripture. But any one can use scripture, for any purpose. Joseph Smith shows you how to do use scripture, and I suspect any follower of Smith of collusion in his lies. Made tragic by a willingness to follow a man such as that, so easily. But, my sorrow for the predicament of Smith’s followers does.not mean, that I’ll sit here and pretend Mormonism has anything legitimate to say.

You are not Paul. Paul was not speaking about Mormons. As long as you keep up with the condescending remarks, like some crazed street preacher, I’ll call it what it is.

Be prepared always to explain your faith. Saying, ohhhhh, I feel it, is not an explanation.

 

[Telstar]

Rebecca, I’m sorry you do not understand my words. I have tried to speak as plain as word can be. But the things of the spirit are understood by the spirit and in no other way. Also, if I quote scripture in what I say I will not apologize for it. They are in my head and the words of scripture are spirit and they are life.

I beg to differ. I think Rebecca understands your words, perfectly. So do the rest of us. But as she said, quoting scripture or, in your case, using scripture passages as if they were your own words, is dishonest, at best. At worst, you’re just trying to make yourself sound like you’re ‘inspired by the Holy Ghost’ to belittle her, and everyone else reading this thread that disagrees with your views. Your condescension is palpable. And, it’s not only insulting to us, but it is extremely insulting to the Holy Ghost, also. So please, just stop it.

It appears the days are indeed upon us of which Amos spoke, “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, That I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord” (Amos 8:11). It matters not if the words come from the Bible or the Book of Mormon. It appears one is outright rejected without a thought and the other is explained away.

I do agree that they are upon us, indeed. But, I wholeheartedly disagree that it doesn’t matter if we’re discussing the BoM or the Bible, because they are entirely different. One is in fact the actual Word of God, while the other one is just a fictional book based on, and written to sound like scripture, but (IMHO) it most definitely is not the inspired words of God, no matter how hard JS (and his cohorts) tried to make it sound like scripture. In fact, it uses the same premise and mechanisms as your method of speaking in this thread, which is to make your words sound lofty and inspired, when you’re actually just using the same means of twisting the truth in order to promote your own agenda. You really aren’t fooling anyone, except, maybe yourself.

In a like manner you will reject these words: “But the hour cometh, and now is when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him. For unto such hath God promised his Spirit, And they who worship him, must worship him in spirit and in truth” (John 4:23-24 Joseph Smith Translation).

Exactly right, at least as Jesus said it, as quoted here from the Douay-Rheims Bible: “John[22] You adore that which you know not: we adore that which we know; for salvation is of the Jews. [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him. [24] God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth.”

That last line alone is a complete contradiction in Mormonism, because they teach that God the Father was once a man, and still has a physical body. Clearly, Jesus disagrees.

 

[kimg901]

Well, there was no baptised adult… The ministering official would be me, and I have a very catholic trinitarian belief… I am no polytheist. The form and words are certainly acceptable.

I am really just dreaming really, the odds of seeing my children baptised catholics is awfully slim. =)

You are a polytheist, sorry. If you are Mormon and believe in joe smith and his teachings along with all the past “prophets” of your church then you are not Christian, plain and simple. Your church teaches God had a father and so forth, smith is a god, you will become a god. So how are you not a polytheist?

 

[iepuras]

There is knowledge and intelligence of the flesh and there is knowledge and intelligence of the Spirit. Intelligence from the spirit enlarges the soul, if enlightens understanding.

Interesting that you describe the Holy Ghost in this manner. When I realized and acknowledged that Joseph Smith is a false prophet, my understanding was enlightened.

It is revelation directly from the Holy Ghost. Where once there was confusion now knowledge takes it’s place. Where once darkness covered the mind there is light and there is joy.

When I was a believing Mormon, I was always confused. I could not reconcile how God could love His daughters and women have equal dignity to men if the doctrine of polygamy was from God. When I was able to admit that Joseph Smith was a false prophet, I felt inexplicable joy. Everything made sense. A burden was lifted and I had increased knowledge.

Marvell not then that once a person has received the truth from the Spirit they are invited to enter into the kingdom of God through baptism. But they are not ready yet. They must act on the knowledge they have received. They must make difficult changes. They must attend church weekly, perhaps enter the bonds of holy matrimony, they may need to give up smoking and drinking, deal with family issues, and pay tithing. None of that is easy, nor will the faint of heart enter in.

I did act on my new found knowledge. I ran from the LDS church as fast as I could. I made very difficult changes. I dealt with many issues related to my family of origin. While I have felt a lot of pain and heartache, I don’t regret leaving the LDS church for one minute.

How do you reconcile the fact that according to your own description, the Holy Ghost led me away from what you believe to be the One True Church. If it was the One True Church, why would the Holy Ghost prompt me to leave?

 

[RebeccaJ]

I beg to differ. I think Rebecca understands your words, perfectly. So do the rest of us. But as she said, quoting scripture or, in your case, using scripture passages as if they were your own words, is dishonest, at best. At worst, you’re just trying to make yourself sound like you’re ‘inspired by the Holy Ghost’ to belittle her, and everyone else reading this thread that disagrees with your views. Your condescension is palpable. And, it’s not only insulting to us, but it is extremely insulting to the Holy Ghost, also. So please, just stop it.

I do agree that they are upon us, indeed. But, I wholeheartedly disagree that it doesn’t matter if we’re discussing the BoM or the Bible, because they are entirely different. One is in fact the actual Word of God, while the other one is just a fictional book based on, and written to sound like scripture, but (IMHO) it most definitely is not the inspired words of God, no matter how hard JS (and his cohorts) tried to make it sound like scripture. In fact, it uses the same premise and mechanisms as your method of speaking in this thread, which is to make your words sound lofty and inspired, when you’re actually just using the same means of twisting the truth in order to promote your own agenda. You really aren’t fooling anyone, except, maybe yourself.

Exactly right, at least as Jesus said it, as quoted here from the Douay-Rheims Bible: “John[22] You adore that which you know not: we adore that which we know; for salvation is of the Jews. [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore the Father in spirit and in truth. For the Father also seeketh such to adore him. [24] God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth.”

That last line alone is a complete contradiction in Mormonism, because they teach that God the Father was once a man, and still has a physical body. Clearly, Jesus disagrees.

Thanks Lori.

It feels like ParkerD is back with us.

 

[Telstar]

Thanks Lori.

It feels like ParkerD is back with us.

You are most welcome, Rebecca.

I’m glad I’m not the only one that had that exact same feeling. It’s not much of a stretch to think that someone could just sign up as a different person with another e-mail address. People used to do it all the time on another board that I frequented, years ago.

 

[RebeccaJ]

You are most welcome, Rebecca.

I’m glad I’m not the only one that had that exact same feeling. It’s not much of a stretch to think that someone could just sign up as a different person with another e-mail address. People used to do it all the time on another board that I frequented, years ago.

Since they were both around at the same time, most likely are different people. It is just how LDS think. Can’t count how many times a Mormon has told me they have better and stronger guidance of the Spirit than anyone else. In so many words.

The Mormon answer to your question is, God gave you what you can handle, but hopes you’ll want something more. That means, godhood and all that entails. We’re just not ambitious enough for the God of Mormons.

 

[Telstar]

Since they were both around at the same time, most likely are different people. It is just how LDS think. Can’t count how many times a Mormon has told me they have better and stronger guidance of the Spirit than anyone else. In so many words.

Very true, they were. I know we’ve often discussed “Mormon-speak”, which is a reference to their way of redefining common words (especially religious/spiritual words) that makes them mean almost the exact opposite of what most non-Mormons would think they mean. So, I suppose it shouldn’t be that difficult to realize that there must also be a common frame of mind, or “Mormon-think”, that goes along with it. It’s as if, even though the English language is being used by all of us, there’s still a profound difference in the meanings of those words. It makes it extremely difficult for any of us to understand each other.

Sometimes, I get the feeling it’s like a game to some of them, though, especially when they start getting condescending. Like a way for them to be able to say one thing but mean another, so people won’t really be able to tell that they’re just trying to confuse them on purpose, or call them stupid without flat out saying they’re stupid. Maybe I’m just getting a tad cynical after all these years of dealing with it.

 

[kimg901]

The Mormon answer to your question is, God gave you what you can handle, but hopes you’ll want something more. That means, godhood and all that entails. We’re just not ambitious enough for the God of Mormons.

There is truth to what you posted. God will never give you more than you can handle (IMHO) And God always wants more for us (spiritually of course) but as far as being on par with God, no. If we are to become gods ourselves, what purpose is there for God?

 

[XuDan]

There is truth to what you posted. God will never give you more than you can handle (IMHO) And God always wants more for us (spiritually of course) but as far as being on par with God, no. If we are to become gods ourselves, what purpose is there for God?

Well, the LDS teach eternal progression, so it would be argued that God would be God among Gods. That we would never catch up to Him as He is progressing eternally so God would eternally be as God to us. In other words, baseless fantasy driven dogma sugar coated so that it doesn’t sound as bad as it really is.

 

[lax16]

Well, the LDS teach eternal progression, so it would be argued that God would be God among Gods. That we would never catch up to Him as He is progressing eternally so God would eternally be as God to us. In other words, baseless fantasy driven dogma sugar coated so that it doesn’t sound as bad as it really is.

You have a very clever way of expressing yourself, XuDan!

 

[zaffiroborant]

Well, the LDS teach eternal progression, so it would be argued that God would be God among Gods. That we would never catch up to Him as He is progressing eternally so God would eternally be as God to us. In other words, baseless fantasy driven dogma sugar coated so that it doesn’t sound as bad as it really is.

It does give some food for thought when it comes to Utah’s penchant for MLM’s and susceptibility to affinity fraud.

 

[Telstar]

Well, the LDS teach eternal progression, so it would be argued that God would be God among Gods. That we would never catch up to Him as He is progressing eternally so God would eternally be as God to us. In other words, baseless fantasy driven dogma sugar coated so that it doesn’t sound as bad as it really is.

This is the main reason that LDS baptisms cannot be accepted by the Catholic Church. The Mormon conception of the Holy Trinity is nothing like the reality of the Holy Trinity, as is defined by the Catholic Church. In Mormonism, they believe anyone and everyone can end up being a ‘god’ (except women, of course). They are polytheistic at their core. So, even though they may claim to believe in the Trinity, they define it according to their own conception of God. They also use extra wording in their ceremony that is not acceptable by the Catholic Church, either. This is what that problem stems from:“The person who is called of God and has authority from Jesus Christ to baptize, shall go down into the water with the person who has presented himself or herself for baptism, and shall say, calling him or her by name: ‘Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.’” LDS priests have never been “commissioned of Jesus Christ” to do anything. The LDS church was not in existence at the time Jesus walked the earth, so their claim of being ‘commissioned’ by Him is false. There is no Apostolic succession that comes directly from Jesus, in the LDS church. That’s why their baptisms are invalid and all converts from Mormonism must be properly Baptized. Even though other Christian churches may not have Apostolic succession, either, the ones that use the proper formula and wording, who also believe in the same Holy Trinity as the Catholic Church teaches, without claiming that they are “commissioned of Jesus Christ”, are considered to perform valid Baptisms. The LDS church’s belief in polytheism is the main reason that Mormonism is not considered to be a true form of Christianity by most Christians.

 

[kimg901]

Well, the LDS teach eternal progression, so it would be argued that God would be God among Gods. That we would never catch up to Him as He is progressing eternally so God would eternally be as God to us. In other words, baseless fantasy driven dogma sugar coated so that it doesn’t sound as bad as it really is.

 

[Stevenrushing]

Well, the LDS teach eternal progression, so it would be argued that God would be God among Gods. That we would never catch up to Him as He is progressing eternally so God would eternally be as God to us. In other words, baseless fantasy driven dogma sugar coated so that it doesn’t sound as bad as it really is.

Actually XuDan, this does not accurately reflect mormon thought at all. God does not “learn more” or “grow” in his “eternal progression” according to mormon beliefs, but rather he only eternally progresses through his children who are learning and growing. A quote to show what I mean, but there are many like it. This one is Maxwell:

“Unfortunately, the omniscience of God in the minds of some well-meaning Latter-day Saints has been qualified by the concept of “eternal progression.” Some have wrongly assumed God’s progress is related to His acquisition of additional knowledge. In fact, God’s “eternal progression” (if one is nevertheless determined to apply these two words to God) is related to the successful execution, again and again, of His plan of salvation to redeem billions of His children throughout His many creations.”

Of course this is not a defense of the insane belief that we can become gods or anything like that, only trying to explain actual mormon thought on the concept.