Do Mormons beleive there were/are gods before God?

[Lochias]

And you? Dodging scripture!

Ha, that eek emoticon is worst than saying ontological.

Gonna own up to what BY said anytime soon?

 

[rmcmullan]

Have not needed to dodge Scripture…and I mean TRUE Scripture. In fact, I have posted a lot of it.

But YOU said to stick to scripture so to dodge BY. I then proved that what BY IS lds scripture. yet, you still dodge.

Nice try.

How you run rings 'round me!

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

I hope you are not surprised. If you would like to point out the scriptures where God created our spirits, bring em!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was
with God, and the Word was God. The same was
in the beginning with God. All things were made
by him: and without him was made nothing that
was made.

• (John 1:1-3)
  The JST version is laughable by the way.

 

[rmcmullan]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was
with God, and the Word was God. The same was
in the beginning with God. All things were made
by him: and without him was made nothing that
was made.

• (John 1:1-3)
  The JST version is laughable by the way.

Weak. All things that were made does not include the eternal which are without beginning. Same problems with

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Note how it’s always carefully qualified.

Plus there’s no need to disparage the JST, it just makes you look small.

Take a look at:

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

and also

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

[Stephen168]

Weak.

Plus there’s no need to disparage…., it just makes you look small.

All things that were made does not include the eternal which are without beginning.

God created everything.

Isaiah 44:24, Hebrews, 3:4, Revelation 4:11, or Ephesians 3:9

Only God is without a beginning according to ancient Christian scripture.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Weak. All things that were made does not include the eternal which are without beginning. Same problems with
Note how it’s always carefully qualified.
Plus there’s no need to disparage the JST, it just makes you look small.
Take a look at:
and also

Okay, let’s look at:
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible
and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things
have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in
him all things hold together.

• (Colossians 1:15-17)
  And before you begin to comment on the word “firstborn,” check out
  the following link giving more scholarly information, unless the origin-
  al Greek means nothing to Mormons (which is often the case):
  carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/col-115-firstborn-all-creation

Anyway,
Paul is telling us that EVERYTHING that exists that is not God was created BY
God, whom Jesus is, let’s not forget, “visible AND invisible, whether thrones or
powers or rulers or authorities (including all ranks of angels),” ALL things exist
because the One and Only Eternal God created EVERYTHING.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

God created everything.
Isaiah 44:24, Hebrews, 3:4, Revelation 4:11, or Ephesians 3:9
Only God is without a beginning according to ancient Christian scripture.

You’re Awesome Stephen168!
Thus saith the Lord thy redeemer, and thy maker, from the womb: I am the Lord,
that make all things, that alone stretch out the heavens, that establish the earth,
and there is none with me.

• (Isaiah 44:24)

For every house is built by some man: but he that created all things, is God.

• (Hebrews 3:4)

And to enlighten all men, that they may see what is the dispensation of the
mystery which hath been hidden from eternity in God, who created all things:

• (Ephesians 3:9)

Thou art worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory, and honour, and power:
because thou hast created all things; and for thy will they were, and have
been created.

• ( Revelation 4:11)

 

[MattofTexas]

Your use of Rev 1:6, if I understand your intention correctly (to imply that the Bible teaches that God the Father Himself has a father), is misguided.

KJV:

And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

D-R (the “Catholic KJV”):

And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father, to him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen.

NASB:

and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father-- to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

RSV:

and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

NIV:

and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

NKJV:

and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

NAB:

who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father, to him be glory and power forever (and ever). Amen.

NLT:

He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

JST:

And unto him who loved us, be glory; who washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God, his Father. To him be glory and dominion, forever and ever. Amen.

So which of these are not like the others? Very simply, the KJV and D-R (which as I’ve already noted were produced in the same general era) present a rendering of the verse that is confusing, and can be interpreted inaccurately to mean the verse is talking about God the Father and God the Father’s father, instead of referring to God the Father twice with two titles (God and Father) as many other versions, including JS’ “inspired” translation (albeit with additions to the verse), clearly render it.

 

[iepuras]

Weak. All things that were made does not include the eternal which are without beginning. Same problems with

Note how it’s always carefully qualified.

Plus there’s no need to disparage the JST, it just makes you look small.

Take a look at:

and also

What is not clear about the phrase “all things” as in “All things were made by Him”? So do Mormons have different definitions of “all” and “things”? Does it depend on what the definition of “is” is?

 

[MattofTexas]

I want to come back to the question this thread started off asking, and that is about LDS beliefs concerning God’s origin (specifically if the LDS believe that there were gods before God, or in other words, did Heavenly Father have a Heavenly Father?). What I’m seeing are mixed responses. Some LDS and former LDS affirm an understanding that yes Mormons believe that God is one God in a lineage of gods stretching back to some unknown generation or perhaps has no beginning. That He progressed to divinity (the “third estate”) through being born as a spirit child of another god, living a mortal life (perhaps as a sinner or perhaps as a sinless savior), and achieving exultation. Other LDS seem to hold a different view that God has eternally been distinct from other spirits or intelligences and through He has progressed and is progressing, He is nevertheless above everyone and everything else from all eternity. This view still encompasses a plurality of divine beings and the idea that God the Father was once mortal at some point (though how he became so is not clear and this view allows for the idea that He was divine prior to being mortal). There have also been other variations in Mormon thought about the nature of God such as BY’s Adam-God teachings and GBH’s reluctance to affirm that the LDS hold that God was once a man nowadays in an interview. All LDS seem in agreement that the core of God’s being, the intelligence, which they hold is also the core of man’s being, is eternal, along with the matter that man and God are composed of. This differing of views probably represent differing views within Mormonism itself and reflects that the doctrine is not completely defined in any official capacity promulgated by the LDS Church today.

Thank you for helping me understand this doctrine and its relationship to Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant teaching.

 

[Nicea325]

I hope you are not surprised. If you would like to point out the scriptures where God created our spirits, bring em! While I wait, should I throw together a list of all His promises to us? To share His glory and to make us priests and kings?

If God created our spirits,then how is it we are Eternal according to Mormon theology?

 

[TexanKnight]

How you run rings 'round me!

and yet another dodge…

I do not blame you…I would reject BY, too

oh wait…I already did…

 

[rmcmullan]

If God created our spirits,then how is it we are Eternal according to Mormon theology?

He didn’t create our spirits, they’re eternal. I was inviting you to show a Biblical scripture to demonstrate otherwise and provide evidence for the RC teaching. I shared with you the scriptures from the Pearl of Great Price, one of the Mormon standard works, along with the Bible and D&C.

Genesis 1:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I don’t think that is much support either way, because we both agree He created our bodies. I would imagine the RC understanding is that at that time, both our bodies and spirits were created. The LDS understanding is that our eternal spirit was bound with our temporal body.

 

[rmcmullan]

…Some LDS and former LDS affirm an understanding that yes Mormons believe that God is one God in a lineage of gods stretching back to some unknown generation or perhaps has no beginning. That He progressed to divinity (the “third estate”) through being born as a spirit child of another god, living a mortal life (perhaps as a sinner or perhaps as a sinless savior), and achieving exultation. …

Thank you for helping me understand this doctrine and its relationship to Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant teaching.

You have been badly misinformed, only about half of that is right. I suggest you get a more reliable source of information, maybe even contact your local missionaries to get things straight

 

[kimg901]

He didn’t create our spirits, they’re eternal. I was inviting you to show a Biblical scripture to demonstrate otherwise and provide evidence for the RC teaching. I shared with you the scriptures from the Pearl of Great Price, one of the Mormon standard works, along with the Bible and D&C.

I don’t think that is much support either way, because we both agree He created our bodies. I would imagine the RC understanding is that at that time, both our bodies and spirits were created. The LDS understanding is that our eternal spirit was bound with our temporal body.

Your PGC and DC mean nothing to true Christians. They are your so-called scripture, not Christians. Something made up by men. Basically, you and all other lds believe in multiple gods. Say it ain’t so but you believe smith is a god and you worship him right? Hey, its your soul. Also, what version of the DC do you read? The revised edition? How about the KJ Bible? The Mormon edition?

 

[TexanKnight]

You have been badly misinformed, only about half of that is right. I suggest you get a more reliable source of information, maybe even contact your local missionaries to get things straight

Actually, Matt is correct.

You would know that if you did not reject so many of your old “prophets”

 

[kimg901]

You have been badly misinformed, only about half of that is right. I suggest you get a more reliable source of information, maybe even contact your local missionaries to get things straight

Whats more reliable than your own scripture? Your own bishops aren’t educated in theology so how would missionaries know whats right?

 

[rmcmullan]

God created everything.

Isaiah 44:24, Hebrews, 3:4, Revelation 4:11, or Ephesians 3:9

Only God is without a beginning according to ancient Christian scripture.

God created everything that was created. The eternal things did not need to be created.

 

[kimg901]

God created everything that was created. The eternal things did not need to be created.

Lets look at the word “eternal”

ETERNAL

Pronunciation (US):

Dictionary entry overview: What does eternal mean?

• ETERNAL (adjective)
The adjective ETERNAL has 2 senses:

1. continuing forever or indefinitely
2. tiresomely long; seemingly without end

Familiarity information: ETERNAL used as an adjective is rare.

Dictionary entry details

• ETERNAL (adjective)

Sense 1 eternal [BACK TO TOP]

Meaning:

Continuing forever or indefinitely

Synonyms:

unceasing; perpetual; everlasting; eternal; unending; ageless; aeonian; eonian

Context examples:

the ageless themes of love and revenge / eternal truths / life everlasting / hell’s perpetual fires / the unending bliss of heaven

Similar:

lasting; permanent (continuing or enduring without marked change in status or condition or place)

God is eternal. Your god is not because he was created.

 

[Stephen168]

He didn’t create our spirits, they’re eternal. I was inviting you to show a Biblical scripture to demonstrate otherwise and provide evidence for the RC teaching. .

And I did but you ignored it.