Do most women TRULY appreciate good men?

[royal_archer]

What you are describing does in fact commonly happen. I think, however that the issue some of us are taking with it is that you are attacking the integrity and character of the man over this, when the woman is more at fault than he is.
…

It doesn’t see like an issue of fault to me. He asks, she says no, end of story. Now if he goes acting stupid and resentful there is a problem but if he sulks off and gets over it, no problem. Like wise no problem with the girl unless she turns a good guy down because he is boring, then goes out with mr. exciting then when that does not work out complains about how she can’t find a good guy, then I’d say it is her fault.

 

[HappyPerson]

It doesn’t see like an issue of fault to me. He asks, she says no, end of story. Now if he goes acting stupid and resentful there is a problem but if he sulks off and gets over it, no problem. Like wise no problem with the girl unless she turns a good guy down because he is boring, then goes out with mr. exciting then when that does not work out complains about how she can’t find a good guy, then I’d say it is her fault.

I agree, but McGar is talking about situations where rather than the “end of story” from your scenario, the guy remains “friends” with her, hoping to somehow woo her over, while he complains about everyone else she dates(who in his mind will automatically never be as good as him.) I’m saying in situations like that, the woman needs to share the blame for being friends with him, when she shouldn’t have, on thr grounds that she is leading him on by remaining “friends” with him.

As far as women who turn down good guys and then complain that they can’t get good guys, I have NO sympathy for their whining.

 

[marietta]

Magicsilence writes:

*“If you don’t appreciate some of the finest music ever played, the finest literature ever written, and the spiritual insight from one of the greatest saints of recent memory, then, yeah, we shouldn’t date.” *

Even if the guy not only appreciated the music I love but actually was one of the musicians himself, I would not date him. Even if he not only appreciated my favorite authors but actually was one of the authors himself, I would not date him. Even if he agreed with me 100 percent on matters of spirituality, I would not date him.

Ten years ago I chose a solitary life: not one phone call, not one date, not one single flirtation. It is not an easy life, but it is far simpler than trying to inch forward in a tumultuous relationship with a man. And, yes, if I am involved, there will be tumult - I have accepted that fact about myself and choose to live within my own God-given limitations. When things go awry there is only one accountable party: that would be me. I am extremely grateful to be on the other side of marriage and childbearing so the decisions I make today with regard to the company I keep do not have the urgency of those being considered by people in their twenties and thirties. What a colossal waste it would be for me to live out the remainder of the time I have left on this earth tangled up in “he loves me / he loves me not”.

Why must fault be assigned in the courtship game? It is a hotbed for stumbling, miscommunication, underdeveloped dreams. A “good man” for Sue will not necessarily be a “good man” for Jane. All this compartmentalizing drives me crazy.

One more thing, Magicsilence, and that is this fragment from your earlier post: " . . . then, yeah, we shouldn’t date." This is a classic example of intentional miscommunication. What should have been written was, “then, yeah, you shouldn’t date.” All indicators were pointing at marietta in this post - it was unnecessary to include any other target, even with the intent of trying to soften the point.

What exactly would I not find boring? Precision grammar. The satisfaction of taking a compositionally moving black and white photograph. One-twentieth of a holiday where my family members are not sniping at one another. Gasoline for $3.25 per gallon. A vacuum cleaner bag that doesn’t break when 1/5 full. John Pizzarelli’s trio work. You see? You have made assumption after assumption about the greatest of the great this world has to offer, and if I am not interested in those then I must be some sort of lost cause.

This kind of stuff wears real thin real fast.

marietta

 

[John_AH]

My 2 cents.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but I did read all the replies.
It comes down being attracted to what we perceived as what we want.

Men will generally look for modest women, secure in themselves, and faithful.
Women will look for confident men who know who they are and what they want.

The problem with this is as “good” singles we generally do not have these attributes. If you look at these attributes (and these are really summarized) you will find that these attributes are from married people.

From my experience I find that I’m strongly attract to the women described above only to find out that they are already married. Happens all the time. Ladies got to ware the ring.

Without the marriage bonds we are basically our single form from in-modest dress (to attract a mate) to not being confident in our masculinity because basically we are being what a man is supposed to be protector and provider.

The devil has turned the world upside down and made fakes. Bad men generally look like they have the confidence to take on the world. Bad woman tend to have "needs’.

Clues are as follows, bad men seem to be able to do anything but give them a job of commitment and they run faster then that guy “bolt” (look at them when they get a girl pregnant). Bad women who have needs are probably the first ones who say you can’t help them or say they are independent.

“Bad” as in not ready.

As catholic and Christians we have to realize that we are generally not going to be that person or find that person until we are married. The church helps us allot along that path to becoming these people without marriage but it is a long process of humility and growth.

The key is we just have to identify the right ones.
The best piece of advice is judge them by the fruits of their labors.
We are talking real labors, just going to mass regularly is just a start but active and on-going ministry to God, the community, and family are the keepers.

God Bless,
John Anthony

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Magicsilence writes:

*“If you don’t appreciate some of the finest music ever played, the finest literature ever written, and the spiritual insight from one of the greatest saints of recent memory, then, yeah, we shouldn’t date.” *

Even if the guy not only appreciated the music I love but actually was one of the musicians himself, I would not date him. Even if he not only appreciated my favorite authors but actually was one of the authors himself, I would not date him. Even if he agreed with me 100 percent on matters of spirituality, I would not date him.

Ten years ago I chose a solitary life: not one phone call, not one date, not one single flirtation. It is not an easy life, but it is far simpler than trying to inch forward in a tumultuous relationship with a man. And, yes, if I am involved, there will be tumult - I have accepted that fact about myself and choose to live within my own God-given limitations. When things go awry there is only one accountable party: that would be me. I am extremely grateful to be on the other side of marriage and childbearing so the decisions I make today with regard to the company I keep do not have the urgency of those being considered by people in their twenties and thirties. What a colossal waste it would be for me to live out the remainder of the time I have left on this earth tangled up in “he loves me / he loves me not”.

Why must fault be assigned in the courtship game? It is a hotbed for stumbling, miscommunication, underdeveloped dreams. A “good man” for Sue will not necessarily be a “good man” for Jane. All this compartmentalizing drives me crazy.

One more thing, Magicsilence, and that is this fragment from your earlier post: " . . . then, yeah, we shouldn’t date." This is a classic example of intentional miscommunication. What should have been written was, “then, yeah, you shouldn’t date.” All indicators were pointing at marietta in this post - it was unnecessary to include any other target, even with the intent of trying to soften the point.

What exactly would I not find boring? Precision grammar. The satisfaction of taking a compositionally moving black and white photograph. One-twentieth of a holiday where my family members are not sniping at one another. Gasoline for $3.25 per gallon. A vacuum cleaner bag that doesn’t break when 1/5 full. John Pizzarelli’s trio work. You see? You have made assumption after assumption about the greatest of the great this world has to offer, and if I am not interested in those then I must be some sort of lost cause.

This kind of stuff wears real thin real fast.

marietta

Sounds fairly sad, though.

 

[marietta]

Sailor Kenshin:

“Sounds fairly sad, though.”

I knew I could count on somebody for more judgment.

marietta

 

[HappyPerson]

Marietta,
I respect your decision, as long as you are truly happy with it.

Personally, if a woman told me that she had an appreciation for Shakespeare, I’d be turned OFF by that. It wouldn’t be a dealbreaker, but definitely a turn OFF. I can’t stand Shakespeare.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Sailor Kenshin:

“Sounds fairly sad, though.”

I knew I could count on somebody for more judgment.

marietta

I had a family like that. Every time we got together it was just short of bloodshed. I insulated myself from them. And now I would give almost anything to be able to see them again.

I still think such things are sad.

 

[marietta]

Sailor Kenshin:

" . . . And now I would give almost anything to be able to see them again."

WHY??

marietta

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Sailor Kenshin:

" . . . And now I would give almost anything to be able to see them again."

WHY??

marietta

They were my family.

People are irreplaceable. We can’t control the actions of others; we can only control ourselves (and sometimes not even that). I should have let it all slide off my back. I should have been more grateful for what I had.

Unfortunately life doesn’t have a ‘rewind’ button.

 

[rinnie]

Yes they really do, But if you are with someone that does not respect you or make you feel appreciated shes not the right one, ( sorry if this is a repeat i didnt read all the reply’s.

 

[Magicsilence]

Even if the guy not only appreciated the music I love but actually was one of the musicians himself, I would not date him. Even if he not only appreciated my favorite authors but actually was one of the authors himself, I would not date him. Even if he agreed with me 100 percent on matters of spirituality, I would not date him.

Ten years ago I chose a solitary life: not one phone call, not one date, not one single flirtation. It is not an easy life, but it is far simpler than trying to inch forward in a tumultuous relationship with a man. And, yes, if I am involved, there will be tumult - I have accepted that fact about myself and choose to live within my own God-given limitations. When things go awry there is only one accountable party: that would be me. I am extremely grateful to be on the other side of marriage and childbearing so the decisions I make today with regard to the company I keep do not have the urgency of those being considered by people in their twenties and thirties. What a colossal waste it would be for me to live out the remainder of the time I have left on this earth tangled up in “he loves me / he loves me not”.

Mea Culpa Marietta for the generalisation. I must admit that the rationality with which you are approaching courtship has a certain simplicity that is attractive, at least in terms of risk analysis. I agree that ‘love games’, at least to me, are a manifestation of naivety, despite the emotions that my own heart showed me in the few seconds that they previously ‘climaxed’ (non-sexually). I don’t know if my putting off ‘dating’ until after graduation contributed to me developing a more rational approach to ‘love’.

Why must fault be assigned in the courtship game? It is a hotbed for stumbling, miscommunication, underdeveloped dreams. A “good man” for Sue will not necessarily be a “good man” for Jane. All this compartmentalizing drives me crazy.

And maybe that is the real problem? I know that my own mind has struggled to comprehend the irrationality that often stems from emotional flux. Indeed, one of the reasons I try to avoid making intensely verbose responses on CAF is that they are limited in their conduciveness to human emotions and the actions that result from them.

One more thing, Magicsilence, and that is this fragment from your earlier post: " . . . then, yeah, we shouldn’t date." This is a classic example of intentional miscommunication. What should have been written was, “then, yeah, you shouldn’t date.” All indicators were pointing at marietta in this post - it was unnecessary to include any other target, even with the intent of trying to soften the point.

Ah, come on. Tongue - in - cheek. Life is full of un-necessary things. Besides, one of the salient thoughts that came to mind while composing that reply was that my initial post was a little too definitive. I wasn’t about to make the same mistake regarding your dating prowess.

What exactly would I not find boring? Precision grammar. The satisfaction of taking a compositionally moving black and white photograph. One-twentieth of a holiday where my family members are not sniping at one another. Gasoline for $3.25 per gallon. A vacuum cleaner bag that doesn’t break when 1/5 full. John Pizzarelli’s trio work. You see?

I see. You know, on second thoughts, I think one date wouldn’t hurt. Maybe you should give it a try.

You have made assumption after assumption about the greatest of the great this world has to offer, and if I am not interested in those then I must be some sort of lost cause.

This kind of stuff wears real thin real fast.

marietta

Actually, the assumption I made was that you inferred ‘good men’ to be necessarily boring for not having interests similar to those of ‘bad men’. I tried (and seemingly failed) to rally that point by dishing out three examples that I thought you were shooting down for not being ‘wild’ or ‘exciting’ enough, which in fact, (despite not necessarily having a great interest in all 3 myself), are not boring just because secular society ranks them as the fodder for old people to suckle on in retirement.

 

[MCGar]

Why must fault be assigned in the courtship game? It is a hotbed for stumbling, miscommunication, underdeveloped dreams. A “good man” for Sue will not necessarily be a “good man” for Jane. All this compartmentalizing drives me crazy.

you know, I agree with this very much.

 

[marietta]

Magicsilence writes:

*“You know, on second thoughts, I think one date wouldn’t hurt. Maybe you should give it a try.” *

I believe if I consented to just one date, it would hurt. But it would be my escort who would be doing the suffering.

I include “dating” in the same category as “vomiting”. I wear an extremely efficient protective shield which has kept me from homicidal actions for over a decade. This is not tongue-in-cheek or “surely she’s kidding!” I have been approached many times over the years and my stock response is to look the poor innocent squarely in the eye and tell him, “I don’t date.” Uncomplicated. Pain-free. No ridiculous attempts at having to explain myself over and over and over ad nauseum. No having to listen to his bad music, stories about his boring friends, all the while having to feign interest or amusement. There comes a time in some peoples’ lives when we put all the bull**** down and live quietly until called to the next life. I can think of nothing more horrid than squandering my last days/months/years on some dude who will never understand me no matter how many languages I use to explain myself. And, truly, I don’t want to get to know him. I know plenty of men, some good, some boring, some absolutely wicked. I’ve had my allotment. Enough is enough.

marietta

 

[HappyPerson]

So… can we conclude that devout Catholic women appreciate devout Catholic men, and vice versa, yet both have extremely difficult times finding Catholic singles who are never married, without kids, and in their own generation?

 

[rusty20]

So… can we conclude that devout Catholic women appreciate devout Catholic men, and vice versa, yet both have extremely difficult times finding Catholic singles who are never married, without kids, and in their own generation?

sounds about right, for your age group.

Those of us a bit younger are probably in a bit luckier situation, with many to choose from (relatively speaking).

 

[Magicsilence]

Magicsilence writes:

*“You know, on second thoughts, I think one date wouldn’t hurt. Maybe you should give it a try.” *

I believe if I consented to just one date, it would hurt. But it would be my escort who would be doing the suffering.

I include “dating” in the same category as “vomiting”. I wear an extremely efficient protective shield which has kept me from homicidal actions for over a decade. This is not tongue-in-cheek or “surely she’s kidding!” I have been approached many times over the years and my stock response is to look the poor innocent squarely in the eye and tell him, “I don’t date.” Uncomplicated. Pain-free. No ridiculous attempts at having to explain myself over and over and over ad nauseum. No having to listen to his bad music, stories about his boring friends, all the while having to feign interest or amusement. There comes a time in some peoples’ lives when we put all the bull**** down and live quietly until called to the next life. I can think of nothing more horrid than squandering my last days/months/years on some dude who will never understand me no matter how many languages I use to explain myself. And, truly, I don’t want to get to know him. I know plenty of men, some good, some boring, some absolutely wicked. I’ve had my allotment. Enough is enough.

marietta

Why do assume that there isn’t someone who is your equal in the male species, at least in terms of comprehending your psychology?

If you approach marriage as a rational contract, as you have done here, then of course, you might get a raw deal. But why are you assuming the worst will happen, that your future husband will be boring, and intellectually challenged, forever lounging around driving you crazy?

Until about a year ago, my approach to life comprehension was, like yours, centred on rationality. Women were mostly irrational (emotional), naive, vain, and boring. What scientific theory could they discuss with relish? What could they ever understand about the complex emotions that can torment those with a mind suited heavily to analysis and reason? Even their humanity looked degrading, hypocritical as it might sound.

But more importantly, I tried to understand God with that same mind. I tried to find God inside an argument, or in the foundations of logic. I tried to reason my way into his Kingdom. One day, perhaps in early 2007, as I was saying my penance for confession, God allowed me to come to a realisation in prayer. It was not especially profound, or intellectual, but crucially, I didn’t come to it through reason.

From that pivotal moment, I have been able to see the world as God sees it, rather than through the eyes of logic. And, trust me, it is a much more beautiful place to behold.

Now, I am not trying to insinuate that you are unable to comprehend reality fully, or that your reasoning for not dating is wrong, for any reason. But, I would hope that you don’t make the mistake of assuming a set of commonalities to the male species that preclude your own personal dream of happiness.

This post of yours, made me really sad, even though I know that the logic behind it most likely brings you comfort.

Because, if you see dating in the same category as vomiting, then I think you may have been influenced by secular projections of dating being synonymous with courting. And the reality is that God made courting the staple diet for 90% (about) of the human race. You don’t have to partake, but you should understand what a wonderful vocation marriage can be, even if just as on observer.

God Bless!

 

[marietta]

Magicsilence:

I have been to the marriage party. It was yet another disaster in a tremendously long line. When my ex-husband attempted to run me down with the car when I had our year-old daughter in my arms, that was my epiphany.

I don’t assume there is no one my equal. There may be countless men out there who are my intellectual and spiritual equal. I don’t care; I’m done with it. Behind the intellectual and spiritual equal is “where’s dinner?” and “did you take my pinstriped suit to the cleaners yet?”

My own personal dreams of happiness? Oxymoron. The key to survival in my universe is to crush the dreams before somebody else’s boot comes down. I didn’t used to be this way, but life has a way of killing some people before they’re actually ready for the pine box. It would be nice if there were some respite (it appears even Dante came out on the other side), but the circumstances of my life have brought me to a different conclusion.

marietta

 

[Magicsilence]

Magicsilence:

I have been to the marriage party. It was yet another disaster in a tremendously long line. When my ex-husband attempted to run me down with the car when I had our year-old daughter in my arms, that was my epiphany.

I don’t assume there is no one my equal. There may be countless men out there who are my intellectual and spiritual equal. I don’t care; I’m done with it. Behind the intellectual and spiritual equal is “where’s dinner?” and “did you take my pinstriped suit to the cleaners yet?”

My own personal dreams of happiness? Oxymoron. The key to survival in my universe is to crush the dreams before somebody else’s boot comes down. I didn’t used to be this way, but life has a way of killing some people before they’re actually ready for the pine box. It would be nice if there were some respite (it appears even Dante came out on the other side), but the circumstances of my life have brought me to a different conclusion.

marietta

:console:

I’m really sorry to hear this marietta. I can see why your responses are as they are.

For what its worth, behind MY spirit and intellect is (or would be) “how was your day, tell me about it while I make dinner”. It sounds like you have never been treated the way that you should be by your husband, but I wish you wouldn’t squander your dreams because of what he did.

 

[rinnie]

So… can we conclude that devout Catholic women appreciate devout Catholic men, and vice versa, yet both have extremely difficult times finding Catholic singles who are never married, without kids, and in their own generation?

I don’t agree with this, I believe that is you are Catholic, and you fall in love with someone that isnt, (as long as they are Christian) and you really Love eachother it can work.

So what if you go to your church and he goes to his, As long as he doesn’t try to take you away from your faith it can work. eventually he will hopefully come to your faith because you are a good example of it. And being exposed to it, and not having it pushed on him, will open his eyes to why you love it. When I got married my husband wasnt Catholic, he turned because he wanted to. My daughter is getting married in 3 weeks, her Husb, to be isnt Catholic, Father said hopefully this is Gods way if revealing the faith to him. So we will pray. And let God work his magic!