Do most women TRULY appreciate good men?

[HappyPerson]

I don’t agree with this, I believe that is you are Catholic, and you fall in love with someone that isnt, (as long as they are Christian) and you really Love eachother it can work.

So what if you go to your church and he goes to his, As long as he doesn’t try to take you away from your faith it can work. eventually he will hopefully come to your faith because you are a good example of it. And being exposed to it, and not having it pushed on him, will open his eyes to why you love it. When I got married my husband wasnt Catholic, he turned because he wanted to. My daughter is getting married in 3 weeks, her Husb, to be isnt Catholic, Father said hopefully this is Gods way if revealing the faith to him. So we will pray. And let God work his magic!

It is wonderful that this has worked for you, and I hope it works for your daughter, too. I like your optimism, but I don’t see how a DEVOUT Protestant could possibly be willing to agree to have his children raised Catholic as a condition of his marriage.

I’d also rather not use the term “magic” to describe God’s miracles. I thought the Catechism spoke against using that term in reference to God’s miracles, but upon searching, it must have been something I read elsewhere, as that ban doesn’t seem to be contained within the Catechism.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Magicsilence:

I have been to the marriage party. It was yet another disaster in a tremendously long line. When my ex-husband attempted to run me down with the car when I had our year-old daughter in my arms, that was my epiphany.

I don’t assume there is no one my equal. There may be countless men out there who are my intellectual and spiritual equal. I don’t care; I’m done with it. Behind the intellectual and spiritual equal is “where’s dinner?” and “did you take my pinstriped suit to the cleaners yet?”

My own personal dreams of happiness? Oxymoron. The key to survival in my universe is to crush the dreams before somebody else’s boot comes down. I didn’t used to be this way, but life has a way of killing some people before they’re actually ready for the pine box. It would be nice if there were some respite (it appears even Dante came out on the other side), but the circumstances of my life have brought me to a different conclusion.

marietta

I can’t express my sadness about this. Words are inadequate.

Taking a suit to the cleaners, though? Making dinner? They all come under the heading of service.

We are supposed to serve one another. And as I said before, you cannot change others. You can only change yourself.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I don’t assume there is no one my equal. There may be countless men out there who are my intellectual and spiritual equal. I don’t care; I’m done with it. Behind the intellectual and spiritual equal is “where’s dinner?” and “did you take my pinstriped suit to the cleaners yet?”

My own personal dreams of happiness? Oxymoron. The key to survival in my universe is to crush the dreams before somebody else’s boot comes down. I didn’t used to be this way, but life has a way of killing some people before they’re actually ready for the pine box. It would be nice if there were some respite (it appears even Dante came out on the other side), but the circumstances of my life have brought me to a different conclusion.

Sometimes I wonder if part of why “giving is more blessed than receiving” and selflessness is better is just because… by resigning ourselves to living for the good of others, and to help them pursue their dreams, we no longer have to experience such sadness when our own will and dreams aren’t realized. Then all we need to be happy is to do our best to help others with their own happiness.

Just a thought from someone who sees some similarity between what you describe and my own disappointments.

 

[marietta]

“And as I said before, you cannot change others. You can only change yourself.”

As I have done.

marietta

 

[marietta]

“Sometimes I wonder if part of why “giving is more blessed than receiving” and selflessness is better is just because… by resigning ourselves to living for the good of others, and to help them pursue their dreams, we no longer have to experience such sadness when our own will and dreams aren’t realized. Then all we need to be happy is to do our best to help others with their own happiness.”

I found my own underground railroad to slip the bonds of domestic slavery. Service to others is one thing; a demand for service, tacit or not, is quite another.

This slow learner finally got it.

marietta

 

[whatevergirl]

Magicsilence:

I have been to the marriage party. It was yet another disaster in a tremendously long line. When my ex-husband attempted to run me down with the car when I had our year-old daughter in my arms, that was my epiphany.

I don’t assume there is no one my equal. There may be countless men out there who are my intellectual and spiritual equal. I don’t care; I’m done with it. Behind the intellectual and spiritual equal is “where’s dinner?” and “did you take my pinstriped suit to the cleaners yet?”

My own personal dreams of happiness? Oxymoron. The key to survival in my universe is to crush the dreams before somebody else’s boot comes down. I didn’t used to be this way, but life has a way of killing some people before they’re actually ready for the pine box. It would be nice if there were some respite (it appears even Dante came out on the other side), but the circumstances of my life have brought me to a different conclusion.

marietta

marietta, when I read through your posts…I find myself teary eyed. (no need for you to apologize, I’m just saying lol) I have been hurt in my life, too. Before my husband…and I always thought that love, and marriage…were for someone else, not me. I can feel your pain. I think all of us here have been in pain. The walls that we put up to guard us from future pain, actually don’t allow us to be completely open to all of God’s love. I learned this as well. I used to have very large walls up…back in college days, for many reasons we won’t go into here, when it came to dating men. The strange thing is, some men like to scale walls…and didn’t get that my walls were there for them to stay away!

I read something very striking back then…and it changed my life for the better. That God wants us to have no walls with Him or with those He put on this earth. Once we put walls up against our fellow men and women, it will invariably become more difficult to accept love from our Creator. Our Father. I know you probably think that you don’t have any walls up to God, and willingly, you don’t. But, He wants us to have NO walls at all. It’s a concept that took me a long time to admit I was doing. I am not trying to play shrink here, or pry into your life. I’m only offering some thought to where you are, I was back in college. It is tough to guard those walls all day long. The incidence with your husband is terrible. I am sorry you went through that. NO ONE DESERVES THAT.

But, God might want to bring someone into your life, and with your walls up, it will never happen. Maybe you are destined to remain single…but, try to find that out without the walls. That’s all I’m saying.

Hugs to you…I am sorry for your pain.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I know you probably think that you don’t have any walls up to God, and willingly, you don’t. But, He wants us to have NO walls at all. It’s a concept that took me a long time to admit I was doing. I am not trying to play shrink here, or pry into your life.

I don’t want to distract from the other topic, but this is really important for me… what does it mean to “have walls”? I keep hearing that but don’t understand what it means.

 

[whatevergirl]

I don’t want to distract from the other topic, but this is really important for me… what does it mean to “have walls”? I keep hearing that but don’t understand what it means.

Hi Neil;

I’ll speak for myself personally, back in college, I didn’t trust men. My reasons date back to losing my mom and dad at a very young age. So, I imagined that if I FULLY give myself to a man in a relationship, he will leave me…in some way. Maybe he’ll cheat. Maybe he will die. Maybe he will run away. I dated a lot despite my walls, but once things got more serious, and some men told me they loved me…I started building my walls. Coming up with reasons why I couldn’t date them anymore. They were often left angry and thought I was nuts, I’m sure some of them did.

Building walls basically means that we don’t give fully of ourselves to others, typically in relationships with the opposite sex. Truthfully, God never intended for us to build walls, and keep people out. If we are hurt, we must deal with the hurt. For me, I never grieved over my parents’ deaths. Once I did, the walls were no longer needed. Once I gave myself fully back to God…I could give myself fully to others. Not that we are to tell every person we run across that we love them…lol No. I mean, that there were some men who came along who were quite nice and special–and I pushed them away. I just wouldn’t let them get close.

I nearly ended my marriage over this. I thought the walls were done with, until I got married, and sadly, I built them all over again. My husband, GOD BLESS YOU HONEY…(he reads and posts here sometimes)…helped me take my walls down. I want to cry typing this, because truly…without his faith and belief in me and the marriage…I would have thrown yet another man aside. I am crying, now. lol Ugh. I just am so grateful to my husband that he didn’t leave me. I was really not a good wife in the beginning of my marriage…but I can proudly say…that by the grace of God, I no longer build walls!

I hope that helps to better understand?

Signs of people with walls…they usually are careful not to share emotions, or end relationships when things are going REALLY well.

 

[royal_archer]

sounds about right, for your age group.

Those of us a bit younger are probably in a bit luckier situation, with many to choose from (relatively speaking).

Naaa, the older you get the more people there are out there who are between the ages of too old and too young.

 

[Dtmccameron]

Good men?

marietta

I’m with you, Madame. I think. I have never in my entire life met a single good man. Didn’t Our Lord say no such species existed?

Nice men? Certainly.
Decent men? Well, not really.
Honorable men? I suppose that would depend on how you defined…
Loyal men? Perhaps.
Polite men? A few.
Pious men? A couple.
Gentlemen? Some.
But a good man? Not one.

 

[rusty20]

A lot of hate for men here…I would just like to point out that in my experience, for every ‘bad’ man i’ve met, I know at least a couple “bad” girls following close by.

This is not one sided by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Just_wondering]

My 2 cents.
It comes down being attracted to what we perceived as what we want.

Men will generally look for modest women, secure in themselves, and faithful.
Women will look for confident men who know who they are and what they want.
God Bless,
John Anthony

Wow! You summed it up for me.

I know a lot of good men. Sure, they all have their faults (and don’t we all) but most of the men I know are good. My co-worker, who helped me a great deal at work yesterday and dismissed my thanks as unnecessary. My boss, who accepted a change in the vacation days I requested when it might inconvenience him. Several of my male friends, who are positive and fun to be around, and who are supportive of me when I’m having troubles. All of these men are confident men who know what they want.

I appreciate those men, but I wouldn’t date any of them. If things were different and I went into an arranged marriage with any of them, I would make the best of it and I could see it working out, because they are good men. However, they are not exactly what I’m looking for, despite being good.

My boyfriend is a good man, and he, too, is a confident man who knows what he wants. The important thing with him is that what he wants is also what I want. We both want a comfortable life (read - reliable income, stable home environment) with a moderately large family (4 to 6 kids) close to our extended families. We both want the challenge of running our own business in the future. Being good is not enough given that we have a choice - he must be good and compatible.

It would be easy for an outsider to look at my boyfriend’s appearance compared to my other male friends and say that I don’t appreciate a good man. My boyfriend has long hair and tattoos. He rides a motorbike. However, he also melts over babies and works long hours to send money to his grandmother. He sends me loving messages while I’m at work, and encourages me to chase my dreams. He’s always there for a friend in need. He looks a little rough, but inside he’s made of gold.

When you see a woman with good male friends, don’t look down on her for not dating them. It’s not a crime to let a good man go if he’s not the right man for her. It’s probably better for both of them.

 

[whatevergirl]

Wow! You summed it up for me.

I know a lot of good men. Sure, they all have their faults (and don’t we all) but most of the men I know are good. My co-worker, who helped me a great deal at work yesterday and dismissed my thanks as unnecessary. My boss, who accepted a change in the vacation days I requested when it might inconvenience him. Several of my male friends, who are positive and fun to be around, and who are supportive of me when I’m having troubles. All of these men are confident men who know what they want.

I appreciate those men, but I wouldn’t date any of them. If things were different and I went into an arranged marriage with any of them, I would make the best of it and I could see it working out, because they are good men. However, they are not exactly what I’m looking for, despite being good.

My boyfriend is a good man, and he, too, is a confident man who knows what he wants. The important thing with him is that what he wants is also what I want. We both want a comfortable life (read - reliable income, stable home environment) with a moderately large family (4 to 6 kids) close to our extended families. We both want the challenge of running our own business in the future. Being good is not enough given that we have a choice - he must be good and compatible.

It would be easy for an outsider to look at my boyfriend’s appearance compared to my other male friends and say that I don’t appreciate a good man. My boyfriend has long hair and tattoos. He rides a motorbike. However, he also melts over babies and works long hours to send money to his grandmother. He sends me loving messages while I’m at work, and encourages me to chase my dreams. He’s always there for a friend in need. He looks a little rough, but inside he’s made of gold.

When you see a woman with good male friends, don’t look down on her for not dating them. It’s not a crime to let a good man go if he’s not the right man for her. It’s probably better for both of them.

Your bf’s heart is good, and that is what matters most, JW.

 

[marietta]

rusty20 writes:

*"A lot of hate for men here…I would just like to point out that in my experience, for every ‘bad’ man i’ve met, I know at least a couple “bad” girls following close by.

This is not one sided by any stretch of the imagination."*

I don’t read “a lot of hate for men here”. You have had a couple of posters, tops, recounting negative experiences with some men - the bulk of the posts are all in the affirmative.

Aside from what looks like a “tit for tat” response to the posters, can you explain your statements? We risk detouring from the definitive “good” and “bad” here, and I’d just like to know whether you find the “bad” man one who appears to be bad but is at his core a family man, or one who appears to be responsible and caring but in reality is neither. Likewise for the “bad” girl - what are your working definitions for these characterizations?

marietta

 

[jman507]

rusty20 writes:

"A lot of hate for men here…I would just like to point out that in my experience, for every ‘bad’ man i’ve met, I know at least a couple “bad” girls following close by.

This is not one sided by any stretch of the imagination."

I don’t read “a lot of hate for men here”. You have had a couple of posters, tops, recounting negative experiences with some men - the bulk of the posts are all in the affirmative.

Aside from what looks like a “tit for tat” response to the posters, can you explain your statements? We risk detouring from the definitive “good” and “bad” here, and I’d just like to know whether you find the “bad” man one who appears to be bad but is at his core a family man, or one who appears to be responsible and caring but in reality is neither. Likewise for the “bad” girl - what are your working definitions for these characterizations?

marietta

I’d like to know what you would consider a good man? If anything from the point of view of Rusty, it seems to me that it wouldn’t even worth trying to be a good man, if your getting the vibe that you’ve all ready been stereotyped as bad. I mean, from some of these post, it seems like can one forgive a man for not being impeccably good. Us men are not Jesus, I doubt women would want their standard of good that they must meet is Mary.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I’d like to know what you would consider a good man? If anything from the point of view of Rusty, it seems to me that it wouldn’t even worth trying to be a good man, if your getting the vibe that you’ve all ready been stereotyped as bad. I mean, from some of these post, it seems like can one forgive a man for not being impeccably good. Us men are not Jesus, I doubt women would want their standard of good that they must meet is Mary.

If that was the case, humanity would die out.

 

[Dtmccameron]

If that was the case, humanity would die out.

Ah, to die of moral indignation…Not an altogether bad way to go, I dare say, for surely there are worse. People have, after all, given up their lives for more ridiculous persuits than perfection.

But for jman507’s last post, I say that, "Yes, the standard for good must be perfection, our ideal must be Christ. If we hold goodness to be anything less, well, then…! (I had a point, I swear)

 

[marietta]

jman507:

In my life, a good man *used to be *one who could be physically and emotionally faithful to me, one who had some sort of relationship with a higher power, one who understood my sense of humor and had a similar one himself. A good man *used to be *one who was familiar with the washer and dryer, who would change a baby’s diaper without being shamed into it, and who went to buy prescription pain meds to calm the burn of his wife’s 55 epidural sutures. A good man *used to be *one who did not bark at his own dogs for simply existing. A good man *used to be *one who knew how important it is to acknowledge kindness and thoughtfulness. A good man *used to be *one who could watch his partner taking the long way to get a task done and not bust in to correct her methodology.

I could go on and on, but it would be a moot point, for this is what used to be. I never found a good man, one who would be good for me. He wasn’t there when I was looking. He didn’t drop into my life when I wasn’t looking. For me he did not and does not exist.

Today a good man is the one who simply stays out of my way and who knows better than to get in my face with his lame social schtick and his transparent veneer of cool. I don’t hate him. I’m just done coddling, kowtowing and applauding. I’ve earned the right to solitude. I put in too many wasted years on men who, for some reason, believed that they had the last word on everything I did, thought, felt or said.

Glad you happy folks can do it without questioning it. I can’t. I won’t.

marietta

 

[MCGar]

Glad you happy folks can do it without questioning it. I can’t. I won’t.

marietta

I understand you’ve been hurt by your past relationships but it’s very condescending to imply that everyone else in a relationship is putting up with behavior from ‘bad’ men.

There are plenty of ‘good’ men that meet the criteria that you have for a good man. I understand that you don’t feel like jumping out on a limb to try to find a guy like that but that doesn’t mean those good guys aren’t out there.

To the rest of this thread:
I do think there is alot of guy and girl bashing out there. If someone isn’t at the same point of the journey as you, then there is alot of criticism and judgmentalism. But we seem to forget that we aren’t perfect ourselves even if we think we are so good or right.

I’ve reread the meandering thread and there are alot of good thoughts mixed in with alot of personal bitterness. I still don’t understand if the point of this thread was that all the girls choose the ‘bad’ guys or all the girls aren’t ‘good/right’ in the first place because they don’t all adhere completely to the Magisterium.

 

[marietta]

MCGar:

I did not imply that “everyone else in a relationship is putting up with behavior from ‘bad’ men.” I’m certain that there are men who are putting up with behavior from “bad” women, and you all are from time to time tolerating bad behavior from your *good *partners.

“There are plenty of ‘good’ men that meet the criteria that you have for a good man. I understand that you don’t feel like jumping out on a limb to try to find a guy like that but that doesn’t mean those good guys aren’t out there.”

No, there are not plenty of “good men” that meet the criteria that I have for a good man. I only listed a few considerations. The requirements are far too complex for any man to want to enter into a relationship with me, and that’s fine. And at my age, I have yet to see anything out there that interests me in the slightest.

Whoever started this thread must have done so with eyes wide open, because it is an engraved invitation to express bitterness, resentment, failure, despondency, anger. These are legitimate feelings which fuel the posts, so please don’t try to put the lid on them. In order for the whole issue to be understood, the whole issue has to be examined.

marietta