Do Muslims and Catholics worship the same God?

[GaryTaylor]

shad·ow
sháddō ]

1.darkened shape of something in light: a darkened shape on a surface that falls behind somebody or something blocking the light
2.darkness: relative darkness in a place that is being screened or blocked off from direct sunlight
3.hint of something: a slight suggestion or hint of something

Psalms…Valley of the Shadow,

Evil, in its most general context, is taken as the absence of that which is ascribed as being good. Often, evil is used to denote profound immorality

I say protection prayers for that, and they work.

And the CCC clearly states this at the content context. Your argument is circular and a stretch of the imagination to read worship the same God into that.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Honestly, I’m not really sure I know what point you are trying to make here, but in an attempt to respond I would say that in a certain spiritual sense I do worship with them (as do you) in that “All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God.” (CCC 842).

More specifically though, I don’t physically worship with them because “In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them.” (CCC 844) Notice what the CCC says here. It does not say that they worship a different God. Rather, it says that through limits and errors men “disfigure the image of God,” that is, while acknowledging the one true God, they have an incorrect understanding (“image”) of God.

Like I said earlier, it is not mutually exclusive to say that Christians and Muslims worship the same God while at the same time acknowledging Islam as a false religion.

Sola Scriptura reading and a Loooooong stretch.

 

[josie_L]

How come if you worship the same God why are you not worshipping with them? Oh, that’s where you don’t know “unknown” some fashion or degree of imperfect or unknown shadow or evil according to the CCC.

Even if their understanding of God is skewed because of the falseness of their prophet they are trying to worship the God of Abraham as best they can!

P.S. Are you aware that many Muslims pray to Mary and that many have pilgrimaged to Fatima?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Even if their understanding of God is skewed because of the falseness of their prophet they are trying to worship the God of Abraham as best they can!

P.S. Are you aware that many Muslims pray to Mary and that many have pilgrimaged to Fatima (praying side by side with Catholics)?

Oh I think the world of them, sad they continue to deny the saving grace and divinity of Jesus Christ. Yes, I have coffee with them on Sunday now and again. Ecumenical not well on the God topic but the social political much fervor.

Would you say they are all ignorant or how does that work with no salvation. They sound much clearer to me than the CCC. Flat out denial.

 

[FrDavid96]

Are you a priest?

Yes.

 

[josie_L]

Yes.

God bless you Father, for taking part in these debates (and don’t be too hard on Gary he is a loving person, if slightly stubborn ).

 

[GaryTaylor]

Yes.

Doctrine isn’t the calling through? Just a guess.

 

[SoMissCatholic]

And the CCC clearly states this at the content context. Your argument is circular and a stretch of the imagination to read worship the same God into that.

My argument is neither circular nor a stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, it takes the CCC at face value and ascribes the most plain and logical meaning to the text. What the CCC says is that the Church recognizes those elements of truth present “among shadows and images” of other religions, including the recognition that Islam confesses the one eternal and ever-living God, regardless of the other, myriad errors present in that religion.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

 

[GaryTaylor]

Yes we been over it 40 times a stretch of the imagination and non binding and per a Cardinal. Believe as you wish.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Doctrine isn’t the calling through? Just a guess.

Given that he is a priest and I am a Knight of Columbus I’m going to need to you clarify your comment. Are you in some way trying to insult Father or demean his qualifications? If so, that behavior is not acceptable. If not, please clarify your point. Thank you.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Given that he is a priest and I am a Knight of Columbus I’m going to need to you clarify your comment. Are you in some way trying to insult Father or demean his qualifications? If so, that behavior is not acceptable. If not, please clarify your point. Thank you.

Actually the only one insulted here has been me. Go back and read the thread. Hows that for clarity and when they raise you to Bishop you can then strut your authority.

Oh and Thank You for your stellar addition to the thread.

 

[josie_L]

Oh I think the world of them, sad they continue to deny the saving grace and divinity of Jesus Christ. Yes, I have coffee with them on Sunday now and again. Ecumenical not well on the God topic but the social political much fervor.

Would you say they are all ignorant or how does that work with no salvation. They sound much clearer to me than the CCC. Flat out denial.

Well, I couldn’t rightfully say Gary, i.e., only God can know this answer.

 

[PRmerger]

How come if you worship the same God why are you not worshipping with them? Oh, that’s where you don’t know “unknown” some fashion or degree of imperfect or unknown shadow or evil according to the CCC.

Well, friend, just like Protestants worship the same Christ as we Catholics do, even though most deny Him in the Eucharist, we don’t worship with Protestants because they deny the Real Presence.

(Of course, we are free to pray with them, but we are also free to pray with Muslims as well.)

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Actually the only one insulted here has been me. Go back and read the thread. Hows that for clarity and when they raise you to Bishop you can then strut your authority.

-It’s very clear who is being uncharitable to whom in this thread.
-I didn’t cite me being a KoC due to it being a position of authority. I cited it because as a KoC I have a responsibility to defend our clergy.
-You don’t have to agree with what Father states, but you do have to treat him with the respect due to our clergy. The base obedience and respect we owe to our clergy is not limited to just Bishops.

 

[GaryTaylor]

(Of course, we are free to pray with them, but we are also free to pray with Muslims as well.)

Hey PR you won’t mind if I pass on that. Chit-Chat does well for me.

 

[GaryTaylor]

-It’s very clear who is being uncharitable to whom in this thread.
-I didn’t cite me being a KoC due to it being a position of authority. I cited it because as a KoC I have a responsibility to defend our clergy.
-You don’t have to agree with what Father states, but you do have to treat him with the respect due to our clergy. The base obedience and respect we owe to our clergy is not limited to just Bishops.

:whacky:

 

[SoMissCatholic]

Yes we been over it 40 times a stretch of the imagination and non binding and per a Cardinal. Believe as you wish.

You can call it a stretch of the imagination as much as you like, but that does not make it so. My interpretation is in line with (in fact, it was informed by) the apologists here at Catholic Answers. This question has been addressed several times on the apostolate’s radio program Catholic Answers Live, and each time, the apologist agrees with what I and several other posters have been saying. For example, check out this episode with Jimmy Akin. FF to the 35:15 mark to hear his response to the question. It has been addressed several other times as well. Here is a quick search I did on it, but there are probably more.

 

[josie_L]

I think we need to say a “Hail Mary”:

Hail Mary, full of Grace the Lord
is with thee blessed are thou
amongst women, and blessed is
the fruit of they womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, mother of God
pray for us, sinners now, and
at the hour of our death.

Amen.

 

[SoMissCatholic]

-It’s very clear who is being uncharitable to whom in this thread.
-I didn’t cite me being a KoC due to it being a position of authority. I cited it because as a KoC I have a responsibility to defend our clergy.
-You don’t have to agree with what Father states, but you do have to treat him with the respect due to our clergy. The base obedience and respect we owe to our clergy is not limited to just Bishops.

 

[GaryTaylor]

You can call it a stretch of the imagination as much as you like, but that does not make it so. My interpretation is in line with (in fact, it was informed by) the apologists here at Catholic Answers. This question has been addressed several times on the apostolate’s radio program Catholic Answers Live, and each time, the apologist agrees with what I and several other posters have been saying. For example, check out this episode with Jimmy Akin. FF to the 35:15 mark to hear his response to the question. It has been addressed several other times as well. Here is a quick search I did on it, but there are probably more.

Thanks I’ll pass. Been through it all several times. We disagree. suffice to say and on a non binding point. For sure any language even close to clear and certainly not binding was addressed by the Cardinal.