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Booklover
Guest
Check out this link. Tell me when was the last time you saw a Christian mother treat her children this way?
Vickie
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Vickie
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Palladio
Guest
The question is perhaps more how secular Catholics have become and, in Europe, how the RCC is declining in number and influence.
Here secular Catholics ask a lot of wrong questions, predicated on material welfare. If material welfare cannot be underestimated, it can be overestimated, and at the latter end of the continuum, I would guess, is how most Catholics do their scheming and dreaming.
A recent study at Stanford suggests that large families lead to increased faith, so that the fervor we witness–quite apart from Islamo-facism, Sharia law, etc.–among Muslims seems partly determined by their family.
I have a colleague, a devout Muslim, who is sending his young children to the Middle East so that they can master Arabic, the Koran, and soak up the culture. Meanwhile, I suspect he and his wife will be making babies–just a wild guess.
How many Roman Catholics are willing to send their children (all two of them) to Rome for spiritual and cultural formation?
Here secular Catholics ask a lot of wrong questions, predicated on material welfare. If material welfare cannot be underestimated, it can be overestimated, and at the latter end of the continuum, I would guess, is how most Catholics do their scheming and dreaming.
A recent study at Stanford suggests that large families lead to increased faith, so that the fervor we witness–quite apart from Islamo-facism, Sharia law, etc.–among Muslims seems partly determined by their family.
I have a colleague, a devout Muslim, who is sending his young children to the Middle East so that they can master Arabic, the Koran, and soak up the culture. Meanwhile, I suspect he and his wife will be making babies–just a wild guess.
How many Roman Catholics are willing to send their children (all two of them) to Rome for spiritual and cultural formation?
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bobzills
Guest
I don’t know, but it looks like Muslims are far outbreeding Catholics in Europe. Muslim women don’t need feminism, they don’t need all the material things like huge TV’s or the best cars.
Apparently, what Muslim women want and love are lots of children. It appears that European Catholics don’t really like big families the way that Muslims do? The Muslim family in our neighborhood has six children, They are good neighbors.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
In Islamic nations, I really don’t think women have much say on how many children they will have. Women are pretty much subordinate.
Muslims in the US, don’t seem to have any more children than the rest of the population.
Jim
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Kadaveri
Guest
From THIS article.
“Today, the Muslim birth rate in Europe is three times higher than the non-Muslim one. If current trends continue, the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim population will shrink by 3.5 percent.”
I think the USA’s birthrate is higher than most European countries though, but not by that much.
“Today, the Muslim birth rate in Europe is three times higher than the non-Muslim one. If current trends continue, the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim population will shrink by 3.5 percent.”
I think the USA’s birthrate is higher than most European countries though, but not by that much.
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bobzills
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I don’t think that this is true, particularly if I take a look in our neighborhood as to who is having large families and who is not. As it was already mentioned in the previous post:
“Today, the Muslim birth rate in Europe is three times higher than the non-Muslim one. If current trends continue, the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim population will shrink by 3.5 percent.”
If it is true in Europe, why would it not also be true in the USA ?
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Catholig
Guest
My opinion - I don’t know whether they love children more. I doubt it. I mean - I’m sure there are Muslim families out there that raise their children with love, tender affection, personal attention, &c, but I don’t this is the norm in middle eastern countries. I feel that they have higher birth rates and that is it. And I think that they have higher birth rates, because they allow polygamy (from my understanding), and possibly have wifes that are just teenagers.
Catholig
Catholig
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Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
Because most of the growth of Islam in the US is via immigration. We are limited to only 10,000 immigrants per country. Europe has no such restrictions. In fact, France made a pact with the Algerians and Libyans to allow free immigration for access to oil. We never made such a concession.
The conversion rate to Islam in the US is only about 20,000 to 30,000 per year. That is peanuts when compared to the 1 million legal immigrants we take in each year.
Don’t believe the CAIR figures - they inflate the Muslim population to gain political credibility.
Objective estimates put the number of Muslims at only 2-3 million and mostly due to immigration.
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bobzills
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That’s in the USA. But the total Muslim population worldwide is 1.84 billion and it is growing fast since Muslims love to have children.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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1.84 billion? Where did you get those numbers.
If you look closely at the Muslim numbers you’d see they put 1 million Muslims in Japan - which only has about 10 mosques - mostly in the Kobe area catering for immigrant Muslim workers.
Same with Brazil and other Latin American countries.
Aslo they say there’s 140 million Muslims in China as against the official government stats of 20 million.
Muslims love the ad populum game and their number is grossly inflated the world over because they suffer from a gross inferiority complex. They think large numbers prove their religion is true.
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Scarecrow
Guest
Vickie your link is irrelevant since it has nothing at all to do with my statement about children being taught to become terrorists.
Furthermore, the pictures you se there are from the Shia sect of Islam on a holy night of Ashurah.
If you want to condemn them for their religious practices then you woulld be a hypocrite not to condemn fellow Christians who mutilate their body by crucifying themselves during easter.
"SAN PEDRO CUTUD, Philippines - Seven devotees were nailed to crosses on Good Friday in a northern Philippine village where the rites drew thousands of tourists and spectators.
The Lenten ritual is opposed by religious leaders in the Philippines — Southeast Asia’s largest predominantly Roman Catholic nation. But it has persisted to become one of the country’s most-awaited summer attractions in San Fernando City’s San Pedro Cutud village.
The devotees’ palms and feet were attached to wooden crosses with 4-inch nails soaked in alcohol to prevent infection after a nearly mile-long walk to the mound, each carrying a wooden cross on their backs." msnbc.msn.com/id/17978154/
Be true to yourself. Stop the hate Vickie and unjust attacks on others. Its just not Christ-like.
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Scarecrow
Guest
Like I said, its more about availability of birth control methods than any other reason.
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puzzleannie
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for your thesis to work you would have to show that the childbearing women in those European countries are in fact, Catholic, and since recent data seems to show that only tiny percentages of their population do profess and practice the faith, your thesis falls down. You would also have to prove that in all countries cited, the woman alone decides whether or not she will get pregnant. You will further have to prove that having feminist ideals–promoting education for women, equal pay for equal work, voting and other civil rights–correlates with number of children, and that women in either group either do or do not hold such ideals. Until we come up with a model that accounts for all these factors, we cannot use birthrates to make deductions about women in these countries, other than the obvious, they have, as a group, more children.
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Montalban
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Your whole premise is flawed based on the comparison of birth rates in many poor Moslem nations to many rich Christian nations.
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Booklover
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So thet fact that they are Shia means they are not Muslim mothers doing those things to their children?
You’re using tu quoque! The comparison you’ve brought up, though fanatical and monstrously wrong, has nothing to do with the OP! The link I posted did.
You really had to scrounge around didn’t you, just to prove your point!
Vickie
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famdigy
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Vickie, you find the worst examples of Muslims and treat it like its the norm. Amazing!!!
as Scarecrow mentioned. Those are pictures of shia mourners, mourning the death of the prophet’s grandson in the plains of Karbala. They cut themselves up to symbolize their loyalty to the holy grandson. Had they been there in Karbala they would have sacrificed themselves with him. They want to impart this on their children but the poor kids are too young to understand any of it, all they know is they are being cut up. They do this one day out of 365 days, even then it is some shia that go to such extremes. Take it for what it is and don’t generalize assuming this is what every shia or every Muslim do to their kids. if I go to an anti-catholic / anti-Christian site to learn about how Christian priests love their kids, I would come out thinking that every priest is a child molester but we have the common sense not to generalize all priests with that stereotype.
common sense vickie, reason a little.
as Scarecrow mentioned. Those are pictures of shia mourners, mourning the death of the prophet’s grandson in the plains of Karbala. They cut themselves up to symbolize their loyalty to the holy grandson. Had they been there in Karbala they would have sacrificed themselves with him. They want to impart this on their children but the poor kids are too young to understand any of it, all they know is they are being cut up. They do this one day out of 365 days, even then it is some shia that go to such extremes. Take it for what it is and don’t generalize assuming this is what every shia or every Muslim do to their kids. if I go to an anti-catholic / anti-Christian site to learn about how Christian priests love their kids, I would come out thinking that every priest is a child molester but we have the common sense not to generalize all priests with that stereotype.
common sense vickie, reason a little.
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bobzills
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Well, then why do muslims have more children that Catholics?
Isn’t it really just the obvious fact that Muslim women love motherhood whereas European Catholic women have been bitten by the feminist bug and generally don’t like children since they present a burden to their materialistic needs? What other reason do you see for this?
I was at the after Mass coffee social at our local Catholic Church and as I was getting coffee, I heard one of the Eucharistic minister ladies saying that she had just gotten a tubal ligation. She thought that two children were enough and didn’t want anymore. Once agaisn, this is not a scientfic survey, but why deny the obvious, that Muslims women like large families, whereas Catholic women generally are opting for families of two or three children, instead of six or seven?
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bobzills
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I also read somehwere that Islam is one of the fastest growing religions, and I suspect that it is related to the birthrate.Your whole premise is flawed based on the comparison of birth rates in many poor Moslem nations to many rich Christian nations.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
I guess you’re not paying attention to the Palestinian children dressed up as suicide bombers & the TV shows directed towards them glorifying suicide bombing. It’s not absurd. And the mothers of these children are part of the problem. That’s not love.
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Booklover
Guest
No matter how much you try to sugarcoat Islam, the fact remains that Islam was violent since its inception. It’s founder was a violent man who could not even accept the slightest criticism and had his detractors eliminated. His followers today continue to feel hatred for long dead people Muhammad considered his enemies. All that talk that so and so “deserved to be killed” and so on! I’ve heard this from so-called peaceful Muslims on this site many times.
Now back to the thread.
Vickie
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