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dolphinlove
Guest
The priest at my local parish is not afraid to talk about the harms of birth control, abortion etc.
Actually he has held talks over the matter, which has been great to see.
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Actually he has held talks over the matter, which has been great to see.
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Montalban
Guest
Held talks? Is he okay? He’s not been labelled a misogynist for daring to talk about these things?
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Kaninchen
Guest
I expect that how one regards “sermons as a solution” rather depends on what one considers as the cause(s) of the phenomenon.
I don’t think that they’re likely to make much difference at all.
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andzy
Guest
Well, it’s great to know that actually there are exceptions.
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dolphinlove
Guest
Yes he is ok, he just knows how to take a stand.
And no, he has not been labeled a misogynist at all, if anything, the girls in my parish respect him all the more, and the people that have heard him talk agree with him, he has a very gentle approach.
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Booklover
Guest
No, I don’t believe that Muslim mothers love their children more than Catholic mothers!
See here.
Stages of Islamization
STAGE ONE: INFILTRATION
See here.
Stages of Islamization
STAGE ONE: INFILTRATION
- First migration wave to target non-Muslim society.
- Appeal for humanitarian tolerance from the target non-Muslim society.
- Characterized by professed tolerance of others and their beliefs.
- Attempts to portray Islam as a peaceful religion and Muslims as victims of misunderstanding and racism.
- Images of women and children used to portray Muslims.
- Establishment of mosques as power bases (today globally funded by Gulf countries oil revenue). (Mosques are safe havens for Jihadi recruitment and subversive projects).
- **Muslim leaders promote large push for increased Muslim births in target non-Muslim society to increase native Muslim population. **
- Misrepresentation of their intentions or aims as a cover up for clandestine operations.
Vickie
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Kaninchen
Guest
My goodness, ‘The Protocols Of The Learned Elders Of Ummah’!
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bobzills
Guest
So, it is true, contrary to what some posters here have said, that Muslims do promote large families and that the family size is not entirely due to economic considerations, but that religious considerations enter into the picture. Catholics in Western Europe don’t like large families and generally have small families with few children. This contrasts rather sharply with the Muslim view on large families and is illustrated fairly well by some of my Muslim neighbors who have six or seven children per family.
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Kaninchen
Guest
Somebody better tell the authorities in Turkey and the Islamic Republic of Iran about the great breeding for victory plan, they’re not even at replacement level.
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Booklover
Guest
An Interview with the Mother of a Suicide Bomber
Q: "Did you have a role in the planting of this spirit in Muhammad?"
Umm Nidal: “Allah be praised, I am a Muslim and I believe in Jihad. Jihad is one of the elements of the faith and this is what encouraged me to sacrifice Muhammad in Jihad for the sake of Allah. My son was not destroyed, he is not dead; he is living a happier life than I. Had my thoughts been limited to this world, I would not sacrifice Muhammad.”
“I am a compassionate mother to my children, and they are compassionate towards me and take care of me. Because I love my son, I encouraged him to die a martyr’s death for the sake of Allah… Jihad is a religious obligation incumbent upon us, and we must carry it out. I sacrificed Muhammad as part of my obligation.” “This is an easy thing. There is no disagreement [among scholars] on such matters. The happiness in this world is an incomplete happiness; eternal happiness is life in the world to come, through martyrdom. Allah be praised, my son has attained this happiness.”
Vickie
Q: "Did you have a role in the planting of this spirit in Muhammad?"
Umm Nidal: “Allah be praised, I am a Muslim and I believe in Jihad. Jihad is one of the elements of the faith and this is what encouraged me to sacrifice Muhammad in Jihad for the sake of Allah. My son was not destroyed, he is not dead; he is living a happier life than I. Had my thoughts been limited to this world, I would not sacrifice Muhammad.”
“I am a compassionate mother to my children, and they are compassionate towards me and take care of me. Because I love my son, I encouraged him to die a martyr’s death for the sake of Allah… Jihad is a religious obligation incumbent upon us, and we must carry it out. I sacrificed Muhammad as part of my obligation.” “This is an easy thing. There is no disagreement [among scholars] on such matters. The happiness in this world is an incomplete happiness; eternal happiness is life in the world to come, through martyrdom. Allah be praised, my son has attained this happiness.”
Vickie
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THutch04
Guest
I haven’t had a chance to read through all the replies, so I’m sorry if this has already been said.
I wouldn’t say that Muslims love children more. I know a girl who is Muslim who actually doesn’t like children at all, but married when she was 18 so she could start on having the six her family wanted her to have. She has two and looks at it as “four more to go.” She’s said on multiple occasions that as soon as she’s had her six, she’s stopping. Of course, I have no idea if that’s typical, but if it is, it’s definitely different from the Catholic perspective of “welcoming the children God wants you to have.” The Muslims I have talked to who have spoken about the subject, a lot of them see it as a job that you have to do and as soon as you hit your goal, then you can stop.
I wouldn’t say that Muslims love children more. I know a girl who is Muslim who actually doesn’t like children at all, but married when she was 18 so she could start on having the six her family wanted her to have. She has two and looks at it as “four more to go.” She’s said on multiple occasions that as soon as she’s had her six, she’s stopping. Of course, I have no idea if that’s typical, but if it is, it’s definitely different from the Catholic perspective of “welcoming the children God wants you to have.” The Muslims I have talked to who have spoken about the subject, a lot of them see it as a job that you have to do and as soon as you hit your goal, then you can stop.
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bobzills
Guest
Are Catholics in the European western countries or in the USA following the rule of welcoming the children God wants you to have, or are they by and large contracepting so as to have no more than two or three children at most? It looks like the Pope in his recent statement has some doubt as to whether or not Catholics in Europe are following this rule?
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Montalban
Guest
You still pushing this thread?
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bobzills
Guest
Have you read the recent speeches of His Holiness Pope Benedict? Do you see how he supports the idea that Catholics in Europe are not having enough children?You still pushing this thread?
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Montalban
Guest
Doesn’t matter. It’s still not proving that Moslems love (having) chidlren more than Catholics.
I see you’re still willing to run with this highly skewed take; comparing birth-rates in select groups against other select-groups.
Oh well. I suppose if you twist the stats far enogh you’ll believe what you want.
Homer: Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forfty percent of all people know that.
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bobzills
Guest
Let’s see if I’ve got this straight. It doesn’t matter what the Pope says and Europeans don’t need to have more children because the statistics are skewed?
I prefer to follow the Pope on this:
afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ir8j1XajfDtE4GRsx_M6F_3-QXZw
"Pope Benedict XVI blasted Europeans for being selfish and not having enough children, in a sermon on Saturday at the 850-year-old pilgrimage site of Mariazell in Austria.
“Europe has become child-poor. We want everything for ourselves and place little trust in the future,” the pope told a crowd of faithful from his canopied area at an open-air, afternoon mass that took place under heavy rain."
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Montalban
Guest
Say what? YOUR statistics are skewed. Yes, Catholics may need to have more babies in Europe. But does that mean “Moslems love children more than Catholics?” No. Because you only look at European Catholicism.
Even your rebuttal missed the point! The point being you compare oranges to apples. You’ve done this again and again and the fact you’re even trying now to twist the Pope’s words is a pointer that you’ll accept any gram of evidence that you think will work for your argument. And it doesn’t because there’s no comparison between the birth rates in the respective worlds you compare.
Even your own title is Do Muslims love children more than Catholics? and you got that wrong because you’ve been arguing Do Muslims love to have children more than Catholics?
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inJESUS
Guest
I haven’t read all the posts…but i can tell about Lebanon…in here Muslims as well have a higher birth rate than Christians. WHy? because Christian couples want to give their children the best education in best schools and good food and good life …Muslims don’t, usually. That’s why public shools (bad) are full of Muslims …That’s why all the beggars on the streets are Muslims, all the office boys who barely know how to read are Muslims, and the managers are Christians. It is a generalization of course but you get the clue…so 2/3 well-raised children or 6 not well raised?
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bobzills
Guest
I haven’t twisted any of the Pope’s words. I am reporting what I read in the newspaper and I haven’t changed anything of what he has said:
The headlines read: “Pope blasts Europeans for not having enough children.”
The entire article can be read at:
afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ir8j1XajfDtE4GRsx_M6F_3-QXZw
This was basically my point, that European Catholics are not having enough children and that their birth rate compares unfavorably with some Muslim countries.
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Montalban
Guest
You are twisting the Pope’s words by making an argument
a) Pope wants more European Catholics to have children
as
b) Catholics don’t like (to have) children as much as Moslems.
It’s akin to saying that in Britain there was a reduction in beer consumption which means all over the world people don’t like beer. You just can’t draw that conclusion from the facts you present - even if tommorow you’d post an expert about English beer consumption, it’s still not prove the premise.
And this is what you’ve been doing this entire thread. Taking facts for one thing to prove another.
I’m asuming that you’re just taking the mickey here, because I’ve explained this a number of times. I don’t think that anyone couldn’t have understood this by now.
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