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Maximian
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Which part of what I wrote would a Moslem disagree with?
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Annie
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I think it is because fasting and praying bring us closer to God. Catholics who do these also become deeper in their faith the more they fast and pray.
I am by no means an expert on this, but there are things in the Koran which are refutations of Christianity. In addition, Muslims seem more centered on the Koran while Christians are more centered on a person, Jesus Christ.
In the US, we have a category of “cultural Catholics,” fairly unreligious people who consider being Catholic as a part of their ethnic identity rather than being spiritual. Is that the sort of thing you mean?
In the US, people I know who convert to Islam are of two kinds: those who are dismissive of Christianity because it is the religion of their parents or grandparents, and they might have a slightly rebellious feeling of wanting to do something very different; and people who are searching for something.
Maybe you and some friends could work on doing something along the lines of what you describe
Maybe this is a concern for you because God thinks you might be helpful in that area.
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Aulef
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We believe Jesus is God. They don’t. They actually deny His divinity. This alone suffices to show there is a difference.
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LilyM
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Jews don’t believe in the Trinuty or the divinity of Jesus either, we don’t say they worship a different God jus because they understand Him differently .
AFAIK, Muslims believe that there is one Person Who is God while the Catholic Faith teaches that there are three Divine Persons in one God - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
So how can we believe in the same God if we can’t agree on the Trinity?
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Eric_Hyom
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If christianity was the only religion, we would still split into thousands of denominations. We don’t need other religions to be divided.
Is this God’s fault or ours?
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fide
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This passage in Scripture provides an answer that is true for some who embrace false gods, who love the temporal benefits they imagine or are promised in their false worship of false gods:
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ReaderT
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The Catholics say yes (see Vatican 2, Nostra Aetate).
The Orthodox say no, with this logic:
- our God is a Trinity. Muslims don’t worship the Trinity. Ergo they don’t worship the same god.
- We worship Christ as God. They don’t believe Christ is God and explicitly deny Him. So they’re not praying to Him.
He does not. Spiritual depth comes only through the correct faith.
I agree there seem to be more questions than answers when one believes they are the same god.
I say they do. We worship Christ as God; they do not worship Christ. Maybe the True God still hears them and understand that they’re trying to be devout and upright, but that doesn’t mean they’re actually praying to Him directly.
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Vico
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There can be ecumenical services that Catholics participate in sometimes but it does not replace the normal Catholic worship. Care must be taken not to express indifferentism because the Catholic faith is the fullness of faith with access to all the sacraments.
Second Vatican Council: “For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.” – Unitatis redintegratio 3 § 5.
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Because there is no god but God.
They would disagree with your theology.
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ReaderT
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Yes, but both of our religions believe there are also false idols, which people call “gods”. When those people pray to “god”, neither of us believes they really are.
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No Muslim (except puritans) believes that Christians pray to a false god.
This is what the Qur’an has to say of Christians (and Jews) who believe in God, and who do good works:
‘Their reward with their Lord will be Gardens of Eternity, under which rivers flow, to stay there for ever and ever. Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him.’ (Al-Bayyinah: 8). This is a promise; and the Beloved does not renege on His promises.
This is what the Qur’an has to say of Christians (and Jews) who believe in God, and who do good works:
‘Their reward with their Lord will be Gardens of Eternity, under which rivers flow, to stay there for ever and ever. Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him.’ (Al-Bayyinah: 8). This is a promise; and the Beloved does not renege on His promises.
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ReaderT
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So we would not be guilty of Shirk, even though we are claiming God had a Son co-divine with Him?
What about this verse: “And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger , then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers .” (Surah 48:13)
(It’s been about 5 years since I read the Quran but I still remember a few things)
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Jen7
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Yes but first prominent Catholics need to ask the he’d questions of themselves & the. Birch has been rocked by scandal from higher ups not wanting to do precisely this.
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Jen7
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So many things here! To start with, God does NOT will a plurality of religions. But they exist because fallen man has free will and can choose if/how he believes in a higher power and relates to that power. You can worship anything you please or nothing at all. God wants us to pick him but we don’t have too because we have a free will.
Religions cause bloodshed because man was made to worship & care deeply about who & how he worships. Historically people take their worship seriously & havekt likes contradictory worship. Often people’s have tried to convert each other. Sometimes they have just killed those who disagree. I’m not saying it’s right. But I’m just saying people care about worship deeply. I think we’ve lost that in our largely secular western world. It’s like we’re surprised people care so deeply.
God doesn’t bust in and demand that we all worship him “correctly” because he respects our freedom. He has given us His Word and a mandate to preach it to all nations. What more is he supposed to do??
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Shakuhachi
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Faith and spiritual depth grow. As spiritual depth deepens one may change faith.
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Jen7
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N.A. is a pretty problematic document. Just saying. Scott Hahn has a great talk on Muslim vs Christian worship. He says Muslims absolutely do no see God as their Father. He is their Master and they are his slaves. Catholics say God is a Trinity of love and our Father. These viewpoints don’t agree and can’t both be true. Are we free to NOT say “Our Father” like Jesus commanded us to pray…?Rozellelily:
The Catholics say yes (see Vatican 2, Nostra Aetate).
The Orthodox say no , with this logic:
- our God is a Trinity. Muslims don’t worship the Trinity. Ergo they don’t worship the same god.
- We worship Christ as God. They don’t believe Christ is God and explicitly deny Him. So they’re not praying to Him.
This is an argument offered by Muslim puritans. Those who claim that Christians (Trinitarians) are polytheists…unbelievers.
The problem they have is that the Qur’an never refers to Christians as ‘Unbelievers’ per se. They are called 'People of the Book; an honorific title.
A Muslim may not marry a polytheist…an unbeliever. However, a Muslim man is permitted to marry a believing Christian or Jewish woman. Moreover, she has an absolute right, not only to retain her Faith, but to practise it. My wife, for example, is a Catholic.
Shirk is a sin, for sure. But even Muslims can be guilty of shirk. How the Beloved choses to deal with this is for Him…and He will do one-to-one, with full knowledge of our hearts, our intentions, our sincerely held beliefs.
It has been my blessing to know many fine Christians…living examples of all that is wholesome in their Faith. The Beloved assures me - in the verses I have quoted- that their reward is eternity with Him; and I see no reason to doubt His word.
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Odilon
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He has. He sent His Incarnate self to earth in the form of Jesus Christ and told the whole about it, he is our God which is something the Muslims do not believe. So no, we do not pray to nor believe in the same God.
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Puritans tend to use such language. Sufis refer to the Beloved as ‘the Friend’. This drives puritan nuts.
Muslim are expected to submit to His will… and so are Christians, of course ('Thy will be done…). But there is no doubting His love.
He says: ‘Remember Me…I will remember you.’ (Al-Baqarah: 152). Here, the Lord of Creation asks to be remembered. Not a demand, but a request. We remember Him with love, and He returns that love by remembering us. One-to-one.
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