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Elena321
Guest
If you are in Mortal sin and you pray for others do they have any effect with God or no?
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Crown_of_Stars
Guest
I don’t believe those in mortal sin cannot pray. I feel their prayers would “work” just the same as if they were in grace, but it depends on the kind of prayers. If in mortal sin, it would be more important for them to first pray for themselves and “make things right” with God. If they do this, then the person wouldn’t have to wonder.
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Techno2000
Guest
Prayer to the Shoulder Wound of Jesus
It is related in the annals of Clairvaux that St. Bernard asked Our Lord which was His greatest unrecorded suffering and Our Lord answered: “I had on My Shoulder, while I bore My Cross on the Way of Sorrows, a grievous Wound, which was more painful than the others and which is not recorded by men. Honor this Wound with thy devotion and I will grant thee whatsoever thou dost ask through Its virtue and merit. And in regard to all those who shall venerate this Wound, I will remit to them all their venial sins and will no longer remember their mortal sins.”
This revelation and promise of Our Dear Savior is another proof of His unlimited mercy. You are urged to say these prayers daily and to promulgate this prayer on a continuous basis, so that others may share in this blessing.
The Prayer
O Loving Jesus, meek Lamb of God, I a miserable sinner, salute and worship the most Sacred Wound of Thy Shoulder on which Thou didst bear Thy heavy Cross, which so tore Thy Flesh and laid bare Thy Bones as to inflict on Thee an anguish greater than any other Wound of Thy Most Blessed Body. I adore Thee, O Jesus most sorrowful; I praise and glorify Thee and give Thee thanks for this most sacred and painful Wound, beseeching Thee by that exceeding pain and by the crushing burden of Thy heavy Cross to be merciful to me, a sinner, to forgive me all my mortal and venial sins, and to lead me on towards Heaven along the Way of Thy Cross. Amen.
Imprimatur: Thomas D. Beven, Bishop of Springfield, Ma.
Pope Eugenius III, at the earnest request of St. Bernard, has granted three thousand years Indulgence to all who with a contrite heart, recite the Lord’s Prayer and Hail Mary 3 times, in honor of the Wound on the Shoulder of Our Blessed Redeemer.
brizek.com/prayer/pieta.htm#shwound
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Faxero
Guest
Thank you for sharing this prayer, Techno. I am currently in the state of mortal sin, and I can’t attend confession because my local parish is greatly understaffed: 1 priest must attend to a flock of a thousand.It’s great to have devotions like this, which provide further evidence of God’s mercy.
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Techno2000
Guest
Don’t forget to say… THE CHAPLET OF THE DIVINE MERCY
It’s great to have devotions like this, which provide further evidence of God’s mercy.
I desire trust from My creatures. Encourage souls to place great trust in My fathomless mercy. Let the weak, sinful soul have no fear to approach Me, for even if it had more sins than there are grains of sand in the world, all would be drowned in the unmeasurable depths of My mercy.divinemercy.com/faustina/
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dividus
Guest
Am I correct I thinking that being in a state of mortal sin cuts one off from sanctifying grace? If so, how can prayer be effective? I too am currently in a state of mortal sin, have been extremely busy and unable to travel to confession.
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
Prayers always work.
If I am in mortal sin, that is a great time to pray to God, especially being open and honest with my self-search to determine the root of a problem. Just saying “oh I’m sorry I’ll try harder next time” is nice and formal but unless I do my “shadow work” and bring light to some darkness within me, that’s really just surface treatment and formal apology not anything transformational which is what I really need.
But don’t let anyone fast-talk you a bunch of tripe about that if you’re in mortal sin you’re not really alive and so blah blah blah I just got done with a major ego battle in a thread where some person was asserting that “good works” have no merit while in the state of sin, and adamantly insisted that was Catholic teaching and I should quit being non-Catholic (which btw was another false teaching he misrepresented – that by not believe all he says is Catholic that makes me not Catholic) and get on board with that.
So don’t let any satanic contortion of some academic reading of a Church document end up in making anyone think that prayers at these times are useless.
An act of contrition is a prayer. If prayers were not effective during mortal sin, we could never be absolved so we’d quit having the sacrament of Confession.
MS
If I am in mortal sin, that is a great time to pray to God, especially being open and honest with my self-search to determine the root of a problem. Just saying “oh I’m sorry I’ll try harder next time” is nice and formal but unless I do my “shadow work” and bring light to some darkness within me, that’s really just surface treatment and formal apology not anything transformational which is what I really need.
But don’t let anyone fast-talk you a bunch of tripe about that if you’re in mortal sin you’re not really alive and so blah blah blah I just got done with a major ego battle in a thread where some person was asserting that “good works” have no merit while in the state of sin, and adamantly insisted that was Catholic teaching and I should quit being non-Catholic (which btw was another false teaching he misrepresented – that by not believe all he says is Catholic that makes me not Catholic) and get on board with that.
So don’t let any satanic contortion of some academic reading of a Church document end up in making anyone think that prayers at these times are useless.
An act of contrition is a prayer. If prayers were not effective during mortal sin, we could never be absolved so we’d quit having the sacrament of Confession.
MS
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Dodge_pursuit
Guest
Perfect contrition removes the guilt and eternal punishment due to grave sin even before sacramental absolution. However, a Catholic is obliged to confess his or her grave sins at the earliest opportunity and may not, in normal circumstances, receive Communion before he or she has been absolved by a priest in the sacrament of penance." [Fr. John Hardon, SJ, Pocket Catholic Dictionary]
Merry Christmas!
Guys:
If you are walking around pretty sure that you have committed mortal sin and you cannot get to confession, don’t put off a good heart-to-heart with the Lord in the meantime! Remember, although we have the blessings of confession, this does not mean we cannot confess our sins directly to God as well. Our intent is very important.
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins, because I dread the loss of heaven, and the pains of hell;
but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who are all good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace to confess my sins, to do penance and to amend my life. Amen. (or something in your own words)
God bless you all.
Merry Christmas!
Guys:
If you are walking around pretty sure that you have committed mortal sin and you cannot get to confession, don’t put off a good heart-to-heart with the Lord in the meantime! Remember, although we have the blessings of confession, this does not mean we cannot confess our sins directly to God as well. Our intent is very important.
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins, because I dread the loss of heaven, and the pains of hell;
but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who are all good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace to confess my sins, to do penance and to amend my life. Amen. (or something in your own words)
God bless you all.
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TK421
Guest
St Alphonsus Liguori explains that the prayer of a sinner holds a preferential place in his Divine Heart, if the prayer is made in faith & charity. It is through prayer - and only through prayer - that a person can ever be saved, therefore it makes no sense to say that one can only make efficacious prayer if one is in a state of grace, since it is through prayer that one enters a state of grace in the first place. “Ask, and you shall receive”, our Lord promises.
However, although the prayers of a sinner can be very much efficacious, they are only efficacious when made in faith & charity. If, when a wretch comes before a prince seeking pardon, and that wretch has every intention of continuing in the offenses that make him in need of pardon to begin with, then even the prayer itself becomes an offense. The requisite of mortal sin is that you are not contrite, so a person in mortal sin cannot have efficacious prayers.
A person that is contrite towards their own sin will, by default, desire to see the healing of others as well. A sinner praying for others - if made in faith & charity - will be very much efficacious with God.
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NeedsMercy
Guest
The consensus opinion seems to be that the prayers of those in mortal sin petitioning on behalf of others will be heard, and can be effective; however, the only prayers by that person that will merit anything for the good of that sinner’s soul are those for forgiveness. In other words, you can pray for another’s well-being, and God may very well answer that prayer, but it will gain YOU nothing. HTH
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
That does seem to be the consensus opinion.
I personally believe that doing a kind act during a period of darkness can shine much light in the place where that very darkness thought it was the only inhabitant.
Sometimes you have to “bind the strong man” of darkness and ignorance, by allowing new light to shine in. Kind of like getting new wineskins – get ready for the consensus opinion to be opened up to even Greater Truths as long as we observe it rather than obey it.
Saul didn’t convert to Paul because he wanted to change his life and atone for his sins, and then made it to the confessional on time.
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
Telling a person in mortal sin that prayers will do them no good, is like telling a mentally ill person that all they can really do is “take their meds right” and – hope for the best.
They tell me I’m “blaming the victim” by telling people how to help themselves with different ways they can think and look at things, even though they have been painted as being somehow too disabled to dig themselves out of their own holes. They tell me that mentally ill people are sick and if I say they can “think their way out” of part of the problem, then I’m blaming them for not having done it already. :whacky: Well when it comes to thinking about soul searching, sin, and prayer during the darkest of times, they can tell me I’m a heretic for saying that your most sincere, life-changing, and soul-searching prayers are born out of periods of sin, darkness, and despair.
These rules are not written for sinners to use as guides to do-it-yourself spiritual direction.
They are written for confessors, so they may better understand and apply the sacrament of reconciliation. They were not designed to be examined and reviewed by the laity to be used as the yeast in some spiritual home-brew element in a do-it-yourself spiritual direction endeavor. Each of our journeys is a jillion times more unique than a snowflake, and so are our paths. To throw ourselves into categories is interesting but like saying “I have a fever so I wonder if that means that X is impossible for me,” let the doctors figure out how that all factors in and don’t make conclusions from surface interpretations – imposing a theoretical construct upon every instance.
This is like some random patient with no formal medical training or coursework, taking a few lines out of an old medical textbook, and trying to apply it to one or more real or imaginary situations. It’s fun to think of it but you had better not go around thinking that you know how to use it just because it it triggers your curiosity or scruples or ego or something and you think everybody has to know. Otherwise you become the darkness that gets in the way of others’ light.
We don’t have to go to the Cross like Jesus because He died once for all our sins, but it isn’t just a sterile walk in the park, either, to glom on and open one’s mind and heart to allow the Holy Spirit in – which is more relevant actually then the historical Jesus to us today because the Spirit is where He left His guiding and training legacy. Intellectual constructs, once formed in the mind as immutable truth, constitute the “old wineskins” that are incapable of allowing the Holy Spirit in peacefully, so that circumstances of life may have to cause them to burst before the new wineskins of love, peace, and trust allow the New Wine of the teachings of Jesus, and an ever greater hunger for His presence in the Body and Blood in the Eucharist and in the Wine of Peace.
They tell me I’m “blaming the victim” by telling people how to help themselves with different ways they can think and look at things, even though they have been painted as being somehow too disabled to dig themselves out of their own holes. They tell me that mentally ill people are sick and if I say they can “think their way out” of part of the problem, then I’m blaming them for not having done it already. :whacky: Well when it comes to thinking about soul searching, sin, and prayer during the darkest of times, they can tell me I’m a heretic for saying that your most sincere, life-changing, and soul-searching prayers are born out of periods of sin, darkness, and despair.
These rules are not written for sinners to use as guides to do-it-yourself spiritual direction.
They are written for confessors, so they may better understand and apply the sacrament of reconciliation. They were not designed to be examined and reviewed by the laity to be used as the yeast in some spiritual home-brew element in a do-it-yourself spiritual direction endeavor. Each of our journeys is a jillion times more unique than a snowflake, and so are our paths. To throw ourselves into categories is interesting but like saying “I have a fever so I wonder if that means that X is impossible for me,” let the doctors figure out how that all factors in and don’t make conclusions from surface interpretations – imposing a theoretical construct upon every instance.
This is like some random patient with no formal medical training or coursework, taking a few lines out of an old medical textbook, and trying to apply it to one or more real or imaginary situations. It’s fun to think of it but you had better not go around thinking that you know how to use it just because it it triggers your curiosity or scruples or ego or something and you think everybody has to know. Otherwise you become the darkness that gets in the way of others’ light.
We don’t have to go to the Cross like Jesus because He died once for all our sins, but it isn’t just a sterile walk in the park, either, to glom on and open one’s mind and heart to allow the Holy Spirit in – which is more relevant actually then the historical Jesus to us today because the Spirit is where He left His guiding and training legacy. Intellectual constructs, once formed in the mind as immutable truth, constitute the “old wineskins” that are incapable of allowing the Holy Spirit in peacefully, so that circumstances of life may have to cause them to burst before the new wineskins of love, peace, and trust allow the New Wine of the teachings of Jesus, and an ever greater hunger for His presence in the Body and Blood in the Eucharist and in the Wine of Peace.
S
Stylteralmaldo
Guest
If one suspects they may have terminal cancer (mortal sin) by discovering what they have read in reliable medical journals (Catechism of the Catholic Church), one ought not presume automatically that they have terminal cancer (mortal sin) and therefore presume they are going to die (go to hell) if they don’t get to the hospital (confession) immediately. It is up to the patient (sinner) to consult a doctor qualified in diagnosis (priest) to determine the remedy (absolution) required to cure the patient’s (sinner’s) condition whether terminal cancer (mortal sin), another serious condition (serious sin, but not mortal), or something that may be more minor than the patient thought (veniel sin).
M
Mystical_Seeker
Guest
:bowdown:
Loved your signature, too!
For me, putting together Faustina with Papa H was like trying on a new wineskin.
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Techno2000
Guest
If prayer doesn’t work for Mortal Sin, then why does one always say the Act Of Contrition prayer… before you confess your sins?
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
I’m pretty sure that’s covered in section 14 of book 2, paragraphs 27(c) through 29. There are excepted designated categories which provide the workarounds necessary to “unlock the process.”If prayer doesn’t work for Mortal Sin, then why does one always say the Act Of Contrition prayer… before you confess your sins?
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
If prayer doesn’t work for Mortal Sin, then why does one always say the Act Of Contrition prayer… before you confess your sins?
Oh, wait! Maybe it’s this! :newidea:I’m pretty sure that’s covered in section 14 of book 2, paragraphs 27(c) through 29. There are excepted designated categories which provide the workarounds necessary to “unlock the process.”
God is outside of time as perceived by mortal humans, so to Him, whether you are even in a “timeout period” between regretting a mortal sin and a formal sacrament, is completely irrelevant in terms of listening to prayers! :bigyikes:
Nah, it can’t be THAT simple, can it?
Matt 5:45b
“… for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.” - Jesus
I mean, Jesus was born of the Immaculate Conception, His mother having been made so by the action He would perform on the cross 34 years later. I think God can handle a prayer or two during the interim until the priest makes it to the booth.
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Techno2000
Guest
I think Mortal Sin is about taking Delight in them, and not feeling any remorse, thats where it would lead one to Hell.Oh, wait! Maybe it’s this! :newidea:
God is outside of time as perceived by mortal humans, so to Him, whether you are even in a “timeout period” between regretting a mortal sin and a formal sacrament, is completely irrelevant in terms of listening to prayers! :bigyikes:
Nah, it can’t be THAT simple, can it?
Matt 5:45b
“… for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.” - Jesus
I mean, Jesus was born of the Immaculate Conception, His mother having been made so by the action He would perform on the cross 34 years later. I think God can handle a prayer or two during the interim until the priest makes it to the booth.
M
Mystical_Seeker
Guest
That’s really a good point. If I were truly in a “state of mortal sin” then I wouldn’t think getting back with God would even be on my list of things to do. I’m wanting to stay away from God, like Adam hiding behind the shrubbery.
Or maybe I think I’m going to run off with Eve and some snake and carve out my own little forest where God can’t see me. :knight2:
The fear that causes us to hide, or the pride that makes us want to go our own way, are the Real Culprits here. Not the process design details.
Hey check this out: Didn’t the Second Adam and His mother already team up and crush the head of that snake that the First Adam and his helper listened to, so through our faith we don’t have to worry? Yay.
Does that mean that Satan’s power is gone and we’re just all running on residual energy through human imperfection, after having been thoroughly infected but Jesus the antibiotic has killed those false selves so that we may also lose ours without losing our life?
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Dodge_pursuit
Guest
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit.
When I kept silent, my bones grew old
Through my groaning all the day long.
For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
My vitality was turned into the drought of summer.
*I acknowledged my sin to You,
And my iniquity I have not hidden.
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
And You forgave the iniquity of my sin.
For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You
In a time when You may be found;*
Surely in a flood of great waters
They shall not come near him.
You are my hiding place;
You shall preserve me from trouble;
You shall surround me with songs of deliverance.
Amen.
(That’s Psalm 32)
Whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit.
When I kept silent, my bones grew old
Through my groaning all the day long.
For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
My vitality was turned into the drought of summer.
*I acknowledged my sin to You,
And my iniquity I have not hidden.
I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
And You forgave the iniquity of my sin.
For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You
In a time when You may be found;*
Surely in a flood of great waters
They shall not come near him.
You are my hiding place;
You shall preserve me from trouble;
You shall surround me with songs of deliverance.
Amen.
(That’s Psalm 32)
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