Do Protestants have "Faith"?

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The original poster is an extremely right-wing traditionalist “Catholic” who regularly posts on a forum known as Angelqueen. You can go to angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18924 to see what sorts of replies he gets to this question from other extremely right-wing traditionalist “Catholics.” I want to make it very clear to all that the original poster, and others like him, are for the most part very anti-Vatican II. They get their catechetical information from the old Baltimore Catechism and consider the Catechism of the Catholic Church to be a distortion of the teachings of the Catholic Church as it existed from 33 AD to the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s. They refuse to attend the Catholic Mass most people go to and instead will only attend a traditional Latin Rite Mass said entirely in Latin. For the most part, they attend Latin Rite Masses said by priests who belong to the Society of St. Pius X formed by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, a French Archbishop who refused to accept the reforms of Vatican II. Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated by the Church because he ordained more bishops without the permission of the pope. Those bishops have ordained priests and these priests say the Masses that people like the original poster attend. So, really, the original poster himself is a “protestant.”
According to the official Catechism of the Catholic Church, put out by the Vatican, not the Catholic Bishops of Baltimore a hundred years ago, or so, Faith is defined as: “Both a gift of God and a human act by which the believer gives personal adherence to God who invites his response, and freely assents to the whole truth that God has revealed. It is this revelation of God which the Church proposes for our belief, and which we profess in the Creed, celebrate in the sacraments, live by right conduct that fulfills the twofold commandment of charity (as specified in the ten commandments), and respond to in our prayer of faith. Faith is both a theological virtue given by God as grace, and an obligation which flows from the first commandment of God.”
Do Protestants have Faith? Yes. Can a Protestant go to heaven? Yes. Can you get to heaven just by being a Catholic? No. Can non-Christians go to heaven? Yes.

The fullness of faith is found only in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the ordinary means of salvation instituted by Christ himself. There is much more that unites us to our Protestant brothers and sisters than there is that divides us. For instance, our Protestant brothers and sisters have most of the Scriptures, but, remember, the content of the Scriptures themselves was determined by the Church Christ instituted himself–the Catholic Church. Anyone who is saved, Catholic, Protestant, non-Christian, is saved by the saving death of Jesus Christ on the Cross and His Church, whether he or she knows that or not; or whether he or she acknowledges that or not.

Has the Church needed reform over the years? Yes. The Church is comprised of both the human and the divine. Christ is the head, we are made members of his body by virtue of our baptism. People in the Church have made mistakes, but you don’t “fix” mistakes by forming a new church, as Luther did. You “fix” the Church as the saints did, by calling for needed reforms, which could take years to come about–just like it took years for the Israelites wandering in the desert to come to the Promised Land because of their stubborn disbelief in the God who saved them from slavery in Egypt.
 
mmsiciliana said:
The original poster is an extremely right-wing traditionalist “Catholic” who regularly posts on a forum known as Angelqueen. You can go to angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18924 to see what sorts of replies he gets to this question from other extremely right-wing traditionalist “Catholics.” I want to make it very clear to all that the original poster, and others like him, are for the most part very anti-Vatican II. They get their catechetical information from the old Baltimore Catechism and consider the Catechism of the Catholic Church to be a distortion of the teachings of the Catholic Church as it existed from 33 AD to the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s. They refuse to attend the Catholic Mass most people go to and instead will only attend a traditional Latin Rite Mass said entirely in Latin. For the most part, they attend Latin Rite Masses said by priests who belong to the Society of St. Pius X formed by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, a French Archbishop who refused to accept the reforms of Vatican II. Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated by the Church because he ordained more bishops without the permission of the pope. Those bishops have ordained priests and these priests say the Masses that people like the original poster attend. So, really, the original poster himself is a “protestant.”
According to the official Catechism of the Catholic Church, put out by the Vatican, not the Catholic Bishops of Baltimore a hundred years ago, or so, Faith is defined as: “Both a gift of God and a human act by which the believer gives personal adherence to God who invites his response, and freely assents to the whole truth that God has revealed. It is this revelation of God which the Church proposes for our belief, and which we profess in the Creed, celebrate in the sacraments, live by right conduct that fulfills the twofold commandment of charity (as specified in the ten commandments), and respond to in our prayer of faith. Faith is both a theological virtue given by God as grace, and an obligation which flows from the first commandment of God.”
Do Protestants have Faith? Yes. Can a Protestant go to heaven? Yes. Can you get to heaven just by being a Catholic? No. Can non-Christians go to heaven? Yes.

The fullness of faith is found only in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the ordinary means of salvation instituted by Christ himself. There is much more that unites us to our Protestant brothers and sisters than there is that divides us. For instance, our Protestant brothers and sisters have most of the Scriptures, but, remember, the content of the Scriptures themselves was determined by the Church Christ instituted himself–the Catholic Church. Anyone who is saved, Catholic, Protestant, non-Christian, is saved by the saving death of Jesus Christ on the Cross and His Church, whether he or she knows that or not; or whether he or she acknowledges that or not.

Has the Church needed reform over the years? Yes. The Church is comprised of both the human and the divine. Christ is the head, we are made members of his body by virtue of our baptism. People in the Church have made mistakes, but you don’t “fix” mistakes by forming a new church, as Luther did. You “fix” the Church as the saints did, by calling for needed reforms, which could take years to come about–just like it took years for the Israelites wandering in the desert to come to the Promised Land because of their stubborn disbelief in the God who saved them from slavery in Egypt.
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Nice try, but you slander.

I do not own a Baltimore Catechism, nor do I ever read one. I do however own two copies of the Universal Catechism.
I do not attend a Latin Mass. Never do.
I am not anti-Vatican II, per se. However, not many will deny that the resultant falling away of the Faithful for the last 40+ years has been catastrophic. Not that the Council was the absolute cause, but it did allow “Satan to enter the sanctuary.” Not my words, but rather, Pope Paul VI.

As for the rest of your braying, ma’dam, I refer you back to the popes, saints, and councils that were quoted verbatim earlier. In particular, The Angelic Doctor, St. Thomas Aquinas. Therein lies authority. You simply have none. And with that I will shake the dust from my sandals and move on. Oh, and by the way, you may want to check out the Marian/Salvation thread on the Traditional Catholicism Forum.
 
roguejim said:
Nice try, but you slander.

I do not own a Baltimore Catechism, nor do I ever read one. I do however own two copies of the Universal Catechism.
I do not attend a Latin Mass. Never do.
I am not anti-Vatican II, per se. However, not many will deny that the resultant falling away of the Faithful for the last 40+ years has been catastrophic. Not that the Council was the absolute cause, but it did allow “Satan to enter the sanctuary.” Not my words, but rather, Pope Paul VI. …
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Oh dear. The “slander” was better than the reality!
 
Mozart…
With respect to Unity. the unity is not in the individual pew sitters, just as I would not expect everyone that goes to City Methodist to all believe the same thing…

The unity comes from the teaching itself… For example… all priests, pastors, bishops, deacons, archbishops… etc… Anyone with any teaching authority, regardless of rite, location, or era is suppose to teach exactly the same thing…

Whether you are talking about latin rite (roman rite) or eastern, or coptic rites… the teaching is suppose to be the same.

If a pastor, deacon, even individual teaches something contrary to the official teaching, the Church has means of correction…

With respect to the OP… he, like myself, has no teaching authority… So, just as I can say ignore anything he says (something that may be smart) I would say the same thing about myself…

DO NOT take my word for it, just because I say. I have been wrong in the past, I will be wrong again in the future…However, the answer is out there… and it is pretty easy to find…

I am still waiting to hear back from the Ask Apologist, however, since the answer can so easily be obtained it may be passed over…

And the answer is that Protestants do have a valid faith, and are valid Christians… Some may say it is deficient (and I mean no disrespect) others simply call them separated… But the Official church teaching on the matter is that they do have faith, that if they are baptized in the Triune format, they are considered by the Catholic Church as members of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

DO not take my word for it… do not take the OPs word for it… Call a priest (as long as they are not schismatic) and ask then…

It is truly sad to see posters such as these… It is no better than someone coming in and saying the CC is the harlot. He does nothing but hurt the Catholic Church…

He simply wishes to take sound bites and twist them to say what he wants them to say… not understanding proper context

In Christ
 
roguejim said:
Nice try, but you slander.

I do not own a Baltimore Catechism, nor do I ever read one. I do however own two copies of the Universal Catechism.
I do not attend a Latin Mass. Never do.
I am not anti-Vatican II, per se. However, not many will deny that the resultant falling away of the Faithful for the last 40+ years has been catastrophic. Not that the Council was the absolute cause, but it did allow “Satan to enter the sanctuary.” Not my words, but rather, Pope Paul VI.

As for the rest of your braying, ma’dam, I refer you back to the popes, saints, and councils that were quoted verbatim earlier. In particular, The Angelic Doctor, St. Thomas Aquinas. Therein lies authority. You simply have none. And with that I will shake the dust from my sandals and move on. Oh, and by the way, you may want to check out the Marian/Salvation thread on the Traditional Catholicism Forum.
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I said “For the MOST PART” members of Angelqueen attend Latin Masses, get their information from the Baltimore Catechism, etc. You show that you are of a like mindset by the fact that you are asking members of Angelqueen to bolster your argument that Protestants do not have faith, and even some of them are against your premise. Your original post says you are “open to correction”, but you really are not.

You refer me to the quotes from the popes, councils AND ESPECIALLY the “Angelic Doctor” St. Thomas Aquinas. Even though St. Thomas is known as the Angelic Doctor, he does not possess the charism of infallibility. That means he can make mistakes, and, in fact, it has been proven that he has. He himself, at the end of his life, had a vision and pronounced ALL that he had written as so much dross compared to the glory of God, and refused to write any more. An Ecumenical Church
Council, on the other hand DOES possess the charism of infallibility. At the Second Vatican Council, the Decree on Ecumenism, (which posters like you see as a “dirty” word, more to your shame) says, “[V]ery many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God: the life of grace; FAITH, hope and charity, with the interior gifts of the Holy Spirit; and visible elements too.”
Would that you could show some charity towards others. Rather than asking whether Protestants can have faith, I think we should ask whether roguejim can have charity.
 
roguejim said:
Nice try, but you slander.

I do not own a Baltimore Catechism, nor do I ever read one. I do however own two copies of the Universal Catechism.
I do not attend a Latin Mass. Never do.
I am not anti-Vatican II, per se. However, not many will deny that the resultant falling away of the Faithful for the last 40+ years has been catastrophic. Not that the Council was the absolute cause, but it did allow “Satan to enter the sanctuary.” Not my words, but rather, Pope Paul VI.

As for the rest of your braying, ma’dam, I refer you back to the popes, saints, and councils that were quoted verbatim earlier. In particular, The Angelic Doctor, St. Thomas Aquinas. Therein lies authority. You simply have none. And with that I will shake the dust from my sandals and move on. Oh, and by the way, you may want to check out the Marian/Salvation thread on the Traditional Catholicism Forum.
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here is a correction for you Roman Catholics now number 1.2 billion
here is another fact while Catholiccs are on the increaase in the last 10 years went from 900,000,000 to 1.2 billion and theis is excluding other Catholic Religion such as greek ortrodox, russian orthrodox, etc…the protestant churches saw a large decline and their members becoming secularists.

The Roman Catholic Church now surpasses all world Relligions.

Please what are you talking about downfall?

Though a minority in the U.S., Roman Catholics account for fully half of all Christians worldwide, Protestants and Anglicans together for only about a quarter.
Roman Catholics are the world’s largest individual religious sect, yet they are slightly outnumbered by secularists.
 
mmsiciliana said:
An Ecumenical Church
Council, on the other hand DOES possess the charism of infallibility. At the Second Vatican Council,…
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…which “avoided proclaiming in an extraordinary manner any dogmas carrying the mark of infallibility.” (Pope Paul VI)
 
heisenburg said:
Mozart…
With respect to Unity. the unity is not in the individual pew sitters, just as I would not expect everyone that goes to City Methodist to all believe the same thing…

The unity comes from the teaching itself… For example… all priests, pastors, bishops, deacons, archbishops… etc… Anyone with any teaching authority, regardless of rite, location, or era is suppose to teach exactly the same thing…
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But what happens when the clerics do not teach exactly the same thing.

For example the OP claimed that there is at least one Bishop who agrees with the premise of his original post. Assuming he is not intentionally being deceitful here…

I suppose it would be nice if Pope B. could pop by and give the final word. I doubt however, whether he frequents this web site that often.

Even with that hypothetical however, one could argue that Pope B. is not speaking infallibly on this forum, and still might choose to disagree with him, citing the referenced sources (which may or may not be out of context).

Hey I’m not taking offense with this thread. I know I have faith in Christ (which is the faith that saves) and someone telling me that I don’t have faith is not going to upset the faith that I do have.

And I know that the overwhelming majority Catholic opinion is Protestants do have faith. And I know from the actions of Pope JP and Benedictus that they would personally concur. I am curious whether this overwhelming majority opinion is indeed proven dogma within the constraints of the Catholic faith…
 
mozart-250 said:
But what happens when the clerics do not teach exactly the same thing.

For example the OP claimed that there is at least one Bishop who agrees with the premise of his original post. Assuming he is not intentionally being deceitful here…

I suppose it would be nice if Pope B. could pop by and give the final word. I doubt however, whether he frequents this web site that often.

Even with that hypothetical however, one could argue that Pope B. is not speaking infallibly on this forum, and still might choose to disagree with him, citing the referenced sources (which may or may not be out of context).

.
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No one is saying you do not have faith but the rich man had faith and Jesus turned him away saying " it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven"
So faith did not save him now did it?

When at the Last Supper Jesus went to wash Peter’s feet and Peter said Lord you will not wash my feet, Jesus said" if you do not let Me wah your feet than you cannot follow Me"

Now Peter had faith but could not follow without humbling himself and doing works.

An issue most protestants do not understand is that the Catholic Church never has and never will say who is redeemend and who is not. That is Jesus’s decision.

The confusion comes in when the Catholic Church says there is no salvation without the Church The Catholic Church(Christ’s Church)

Now open your mind as to what is being said here.
 
Can individuals, whether pastor, bishop, or what have you be incorrect…

Absolutely… But that is why there is a chain of command if you will in the catholic church. If the Magisterium teaches X, then all pastors, bishops popes… whatever, must teach X… Finding out what those teachings are simply boils down to looking up what the Churches official teaching on XYZ is… and that is what is suppose to be taught… if an official ‘ruling’ has not been made, then we are as individuals allowed some limited leeway… as long as it does not contradict any other aspect of official teachings.

An example of Both:

Some people believe the John the Baptist was also immaculately conceived… Others do not… since the church has made no statement on this, then we are free to believe either way… Believing he was or wasn’t isn’t in contradiction or create a contradiction with ANY of the official teachings…

Flip…

It is an official teaching that the Bread and wine are actually the body and blood…

Any catholic that does NOT agree with this is in ‘violation’ and needs to be rebuked… Suppose a pastor of a church said it was just a symbol… well… then the pastor is wrong, It does not show a lack of unity, but more a lack of faith on an individual level…

Since the person ‘preaching’ it is a pastor, they hold greater responsibility, as well as calpability…

SO too with the discussion at hand…

IF the bishop said that Protestants do not have a valid faith and/or they are not Christian… he is wrong as the OFFICIAL teaching and what is suppose to be taught is that protestants are valid Christians… The only caveat you will ever get is “As long as they were baptized in the triune format”

My guess however is that the OP misunderstood what the Bishop said… If he did say that, then the bishop is wrong and must submit to the church…

Anyway… hope that helps…

In Christ
 
I am curious whether this overwhelming majority opinion is indeed proven dogma within the constraints of the Catholic faith
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I just wanted to make a quick note on this statement…

Popularity does not nor will it ever make dogma…

Something the CC believes is that the Magestirium will always be guided to truth on a matter, regardless of popularity…

A good example that any Catholic(let alone Christina) can point to is the Council of Nicea…

Going into the council, some 95% of all bishops/priests/pastors believed in Arianism… However, at the conclusion… very few if any subscribed to it… If popularity made doctrine, then we would all follow Arianism, not Christianity.

However, that 95% was wrong, and the church as a whole was guided by the HS back on track…

Anyway… just one example we can point to that shows how the HS does in fact guide the Church and her teachings

In Christ
 
Words spoken can be taken many different ways here; Who on earth has the authority to teach these scriptures infallibly?

Who has the teachings from the Apostles handed on to today and still lives by these teachings, the church that Jesus promised to never leave?

Faith and Church as describes in the scriptures: No one should contest an inviduals faith in God, I dont think that is the intent of the post. What is your faith, and where is the Church today that the bible discloses?

Faith: Hebrews 11:1
1 Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence 2 of things not seen.
3
By faith we understand that the universe was ordered by the word of God, 3 so that what is visible came into being through the invisible.
5 But without faith it is impossible to please him, for anyone who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Church: 1Cor.12:12
4 **As a body is one though it has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ. **
13
**For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to drink of one Spirit. **
14
Now the body is not a single part, but many.
But God has so constructed the body as to give greater honor to a part that is without it,
25
**so that there may be no division in the body, but that the parts may have the same concern for one another. **
26
**If (one) part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, all the parts share its joy. **
27
5 **Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it. **

Romans 12:4
For as in one body we have many parts, and all the parts do not have the same function,
5
**so we, though many, are one body in Christ 3 and individually parts of one another. **
6
Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us exercise them: 4 if prophecy, in proportion to the faith;
7
if ministry, in ministering; if one is a teacher, in teaching;
8
if one exhorts, in exhortation; if one contributes, in generosity; if one is over others, 5 with diligence; if one does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
9
**Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good; **
10
love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor.

Eph.1:18
May the eyes of (your) hearts be enlightened, that you may know what is the hope that belongs to his call, what are the riches of glory in his inheritance among the holy ones,
19
and what is the surpassing greatness of his power for us who believe, in accord with the exercise of his great might,
20
which he worked in Christ, raising him from the dead and seating him at his right hand in the heavens,
21
far above every principality, authority, power, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22
And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
23
which is his body, 11 the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.
 
When is faith true and meritorious?

That is true faith which firmly believes all that God has revealed, whether written or unwritten, and when one lives in accordance with that faith; for faith in Jesus simply does not save us, when that which He has commanded is not performed. (Matt VII, 21.; James II. 20.) That faith is meritorious which without doubting and without hesitation willingly submits the understanding to revealed truths which it cannot comprehend, and this for the love of God who is eternal truth and cannot deceive.

Whence do we know for certain that God has revealed certain things?

From the Church of Christ which alone preserves the revealed word of God faithfully and uncorrupted, as it is contained in the Bible and in tradition; by the Holy Ghost all truth is given to the Church, and Christ remains with her until the end of the world. (Matt. XXVIII. 20.)

Has the Church of Christ any marks by which it may be known?

Christ’s Church has these four marks: it is One, it is Holy, it is Catholic, and it is Apostolic.

How is the, Church one?

The Church is one, because all its members agree in one faith, are all in one communion, and are all under one head. (Matt. XVI, 18.; Eph. IV. 37.)

How is the Church Holy?

The Church is Holy, in her Founder, Jesus Christ, and by teaching a holy doctrine, by inviting all to a holy life, and by the eminent holiness of so many thousands of her children.

How is the Church Catholic?

The Church is Catholic or Universal, because she subsists in all ages, teaches all nations, (Matt. XXVII. 19, 20.) and maintains all truth.

How is the Church Apostolic?

The Church is Apostolic, because she comes down by a perpetual succession from the apostles of Christ, and has her doctrines her orders, and her mission from them.

Which is this true Church?

The Roman Catholic Church, for she alone has these marks. She is One in her head, the Pope of Rome, in her doctrine, and in her Sacraments, which is evident since she excludes all those who do not accept all her dogmas. She is. Holy, for Christ her Founder is holy; and her doctrine and Sacraments lead to holiness, as shown by the multitude of her saints whose sanctity God arms by great miracles. No sect has saints. She is Catholic or Universal, for she has been in existence always from the times of the apostles, as is clearly shown by the fact that from the times of the apostles there have always been some who separated from her and founded sects. The Catholic Church has always existed, and cannot perish or be*come corrupt, since Christ has promised to remain with her to the end of the world; she is also spread over the whole world, is always being announced to all nations, and is fitted for all generations and for all people. She is Apostolic, for she accepts no doctrine which does not come from the apostles, and she can prove that the ministers of the Church, the bishops, have come down in unbroken succession from the apostles.
 
Do Protestants have faith?

Protestants do not have the Catholic faith, but they do have faith in God and in their Christian religion.
 
First of all, all the Catechisms of the Catholic Church are valid. The Catechism of Trent, Pius X, Baltimore Catechism, and the new universal one teach the same truths of the faith. The new '92 Catechism goes into more detail and is written in pragragh form, while the thwe Baltiomre is a more direct and simple Q&A.

There was a Catholic Church before VII, but many Catholics seem to forget this. Vatican II was a pastoral council which means it was not a dogmatic council that had infallible definitions. None of the documents of VII are infallible. Pope Paul VI was not a fan of papal infallibility and did not use infallibility in anything he did.

Vatican II therefore, is not on the same level as the Council of Trent and Vatican I wich were dogmatic councils and used infallible definitions that issued anathemas sit.
 
heisenburg said:
Absolutely… But that is why there is a chain of command if you will in the catholic church. If the Magisterium teaches X, then all pastors, bishops popes… whatever, must teach X… Finding out what those teachings are simply boils down to looking up what the Churches official teaching on XYZ is… and that is what is suppose to be taught… if an official ‘ruling’ has not been made, then we are as individuals allowed some limited leeway… as long as it does not contradict any other aspect of official teachings.
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OK. You put it well. I had poorly phrased questions that I think I can phrase better.

(1): How do you know what the magisterium teaches? Is there a source that is universally agreed upon (within Catholicism) as magisterium teachings? Is this source “incapable of being incorrect”?

(2): Are all magisterium teachings “incapable of being incorrect” according to Catholicism?

(3) If the answer to that is “no”, how would one know which teachings are “incapable of being incorrect”. Is there a criteria to distinguish infallible teachings from fallible teachings which in itself is infallible (per Catholicism).

(4) What do you do if/when magisterium teaching appear to contradict (I will know you say they don’t contradict and don’t want to touch that one for now).
 
Protestants and Protestantism were always been called heretical by the Church before VII. This was done as an act of Charity so that Protestants could see the gravity of their errors and convert to the Church and be saved.

After Vatican II, the Church decided to soften the language and enter into dialogue to reach Christian unity. This has been an utter failure and mistake. There has been little conversion, the Church has been ridiculed, and in the last forty years, Catholics have either apostasized or joined other faiths. Ex-Catholics now make up the second largest denomination. We have been dailoging for forty years with no end in sight. Honest ecumenism, has been turned by modernism, into a form of ecumania in which we reach unity without regard to doctrine or truth. The Church is seen as one church among many, one religion among many, and all religions being equal and salvific.

The doctrine of invisible igonorance can save some people who are not Catholics, but only the truly ignorant.Protestants are heretics even if they were born into their religion and have not heard of the Church and truth. of the truth. It is their duty to seek the truth and find out that their faith is a false gospel and heresy. Arians and donatists in the past, have converted when they found out the one true salvific Church. This is why Catholics have to be serious about converting Protestants.
 
saint_rafael said:
Protestants and Protestantism were always been called heretical by the Church before VII. This was done as an act of Charity so that Protestants could see the gravity of their errors and convert to the Church and be saved.
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Hmm…I’ve been told here I can not be a heretic because I was never a Catholic. Now I’m being told I am a heretic. Which is it folks?
saint_rafael said:
After Vatican II, the Church decided to soften the language and enter into dialogue to reach Christian unity. This has been an utter failure and mistake.
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Therefore I assume that Vat. 2.0 to you was wrong?

Therefore might I assume that the statements, actions, and attitudes of your most recent popes since Vatican II in this regard have been wrong? For example when pope JP II met with Billy Graham and called him his brother.
saint_rafael said:
The doctrine of invisible igonorance can save some people who are not Catholics, but only the truly ignorant.Protestants are heretics even if they were born into their religion and have not heard of the Church and truth. of the truth. It is their duty to seek the truth and find out that their faith is a false gospel and heresy. Arians and donatists in the past, have converted when they found out the one true salvific Church. This is why Catholics have to be serious about converting Protestants.
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So, since I obviously know the truth (having been on these forums and engaged in some frinedly conversations), my chances are slim to none. I see. Obviously you have to be serious about converting me and my ilk if you feel we are all going to burn in the flames of hell for eternity.

So my first question to you “Is this what your faith teaches or is this your opinion?” (just trying to sort out individual opinions from what your faith really teaches here)
 
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