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Pattylt
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I, too, often wonder if their confession to God in their head is ever denied? Don’t they kind of automatically assume that they are forgiven…unless God speaks in their head to assure them. How could they know?
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Autumn-Smoke
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I would think that, even for Catholics, there might be those who confess without actual contrition or intention of changing. Are their sins forgiven if it’s lip service only? In all cases, it is God who knows the heart and who ultimately forgives sins. IMHO.
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steve-b
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Given that God can do as He wishes,
I have to ask
If we have warnings from God, about how the forgiveness of sins occurs, and we don’t do it His way, can we then depend on our own corrupt understanding of things, to do as we wish and expect God to forgive ALL our sins including mortal, automatically?
How does that happen? by prayer? John says he doesn’t recommend that for mortal sin. HERE
So what is a Protestant to do about mortal sin?
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concretecamper1
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Dogma of the Catholic Church
The Sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation to those who, after Baptism, fall into grievous sin.
I’m unsure how a protestant has grievous sins forgiven.
The Sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation to those who, after Baptism, fall into grievous sin.
I’m unsure how a protestant has grievous sins forgiven.
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SeraficLeo
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Could you give a citation for this? Because I’m pretty sure I have read that there are circumstances when a baptized person could be forgiven for even grave/mortal sins if it happens that they do not have access to the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Like what if someone is in a car accident and out in the country and there’s no way for a priest to reach him in time? Or if perhaps his/her ability to speak is lost? I think maybe under extreme cases like that perhaps small gestures might be used in lieu of words for a penitent by a priest but I’m not too sure. From what I remember from my catechetical formation/RCIA, God could always reach out to a person/sinner with His grace and offer forgiveness right up to the moment of death; but except for a special grace/private revelation (which I think would be different from the grace of conversion and repentance and the forgiveness of sins gratuitously offered by God) if the person has not been baptized or receive baptism, and does not approach or avail him- or herself of the sacrament of Reconciliation rightly, then we can not presume to know for certain that our own or another’s sins have indeed been forgiven by God; but a valid baptism or confession does provide such certainty, though it is not inappropriate at all to still feel remorse for past sins, even if they have been forgiven.
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concretecamper1
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The Dogmas of the Church are available for anyone to study. Here is one of many websites: Dogmas of the Catholic Church - Catholic Apologetics
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concretecamper1
Guest
Extreme circumstance are not meant to nullify the importance and requirement of the sacraments.
Of course God could do amything. What He has chosen to do is give us the Church and her sacraments.
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SeraficLeo
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Well okay that’s obviously an attempt at a concise summary of dogmas and it does have an imprimatur (that doesn’t make it infallible) but it is restricted insofar as it is also a bit outdated (1955, before the Second Vatican Council even). Do you have any magisterial documents that back up your claim?
And also there’s this said too, which might raise some further questions:
Because even in your source it says this:
And then one might wonder what constitutes or suffices for a “desire for the Sacrament.”
And also there’s this said too, which might raise some further questions:
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concretecamper1
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Are you kidding me! Dogmas are outdated! Dogmas don’t change. Good grief.
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SteelArchangel
Guest
From my understanding you are always forgiven 100% of the time by Jesus, no questions asked.
While I have never been denied absolution in the Confessional, I have been talked to at length by the priest. Trying to help rationalize the root of a sin, how to approach it, and the grace to overcome.
protestants get none of that. They raise their arms, shout and holler, “amen”, and it is done. You should see the protestant mega church my in laws go too. I’ve been a couple times (forced by my wife) and let tell you it’s almost like going to a rock concert.
While I have never been denied absolution in the Confessional, I have been talked to at length by the priest. Trying to help rationalize the root of a sin, how to approach it, and the grace to overcome.
protestants get none of that. They raise their arms, shout and holler, “amen”, and it is done. You should see the protestant mega church my in laws go too. I’ve been a couple times (forced by my wife) and let tell you it’s almost like going to a rock concert.
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Bonaventurian
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Only original sin at baptism and after that only if they’re given the grace of perfect contrition, and that would only be in spite of their Protestantism not due to it. Otherwise, any unconfessed mortal sins will send them to hell, just like everyone else.
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steve-b
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Yet
Why would John say (Re: mortal sin)
1 Jn 5: 6 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
I think it’s Jimmy Swaggart you have in mind, not Jerry Falwell. Many years back he was caught up in having visited a prostitute and made his confession and repentance on national TV, crying and saying “I have sinned”, and so on. I was living in an area where I couldn’t get many TV stations, but this was one of them and I just happened to have his show on. It was late one Sunday night. I saw this and didn’t know what in the world was going on. I called my parents (who lived in another state) and asked what exactly he had done — I hadn’t heard the news yet. They filled me in on it.
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SeraficLeo
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I’m pretty sure the Church teaches that all sins are forgiven at baptism, mortal and venial.
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Genesis315
Guest
“Charity covers a multitude of sins” (1 Peter 4:8). That’s why the Church teaches that perfect contrition–which is founded on love of God alone–coupled with a desire (at least implicitly) to confess is sufficient to obtain forgiveness.
CCC 1452: “When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.”
Roman Catechism: “…the penitent who, through perfect contrition, accompanied by the desire of confession, has already obtained remission of his sins from God.”
A Protestant with perfect contrition for his sins could therefore be saved.
CCC 1452: “When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.”
Roman Catechism: “…the penitent who, through perfect contrition, accompanied by the desire of confession, has already obtained remission of his sins from God.”
A Protestant with perfect contrition for his sins could therefore be saved.
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meltzerboy2
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But what of those Protestants who confess at home, not in church? And how many Protestant churches have you been to? Surely you don’t believe that most Protestants who confess their sins are insincere, and if they are sincere in their confession or repentance and confess in their heart as well as their mind, why would Gd choose not to forgive them?
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steve-b
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That’s a big IF . It’s a condition. What if the Catholic skips that last part?
Q:
If one’s mortal sin is forgiven with perfect contrition, why is the sacrament of confession needed to complete the process?
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So How does a Protestant know they have perfect contrition?AND
How is it THEY escape the sacrament and all is OK for THEM but not for the Catholic?
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HSTV
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but they are not ‘‘accompanied’’ by the desire of confession, so the perfect contrition is not enough for what you have written.
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Hodos
Guest
There are a few things within your question that I would like to respond to.
First, within your question, you are assuming that Protestants do not believe in confession and absolution before a priest/pastor. This would be an incorrect assumption as most mainline Protestants (I cannot speak for all, but I can provide a general answer here) believe in both corporate confession and absolution (which you can see in many Protestant liturgies) and private confession and absolution. My own faith tradition has confession and absolution embedded within our confessional documents as an example (See Augsburg Confession, Article XI, and Small Catechism, Article V.
You also seem to be assuming (I may be wrong, so if this is not your belief take this section with a grain of salt) that confession to God in our prayers is not efficacious for absolution. However, as you well know it was Christ himself who gave us the petition in the Lord’s Prayer asking forgiveness for our transgressions
Now, that being said, one might ask what benefit is there in private or corporate confession before a priest who announces absolution of our sins? The criticism I frequently hear from Roman Catholic apologists goes something like this, “If I can go directly to God for forgiveness, why would I need to go to my priest?” It’s a fair question. We would say that the priest in announcing the absolution of one’s sins is pronouncing the gospel subjectively to you so that your conscience would be allayed and your faith in Christ’s completed work of redemption would be increased.
I hope this clarifies somewhat the Protestant viewpoint on this subject. If you have further questions, feel free to ask.
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Genesis315
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As I mentioned, “desire” includes an implicit one.
In a response to a controversy about this and related topics, the Holy Office (now called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) noted that desire could suffice for baptism and penance (aka confession aka reconciliation). It then noted that “when person is involved in invincible ignorance, God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes will to be conformed to the will of God.” ( Holy Office, Letter to the Archbishop of Boston, 8 August 1949).
In a response to a controversy about this and related topics, the Holy Office (now called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) noted that desire could suffice for baptism and penance (aka confession aka reconciliation). It then noted that “when person is involved in invincible ignorance, God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes will to be conformed to the will of God.” ( Holy Office, Letter to the Archbishop of Boston, 8 August 1949).
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