Do protestants have their sins forgiven?

[Genesis315]

That’s a big IF . It’s a condition. What if the Catholic skips that last part?

Q:​

If one’s mortal sin is forgiven with perfect contrition, why is the sacrament of confession needed to complete the process?

I think if one deliberately blows off confession, one’s sins would not be forgiven. If the person, through no fault of their own, doesn’t make it, their sins would be forgiven. Confession is still important because one cannot have certainty of having perfect confession.

Q:​

So How does a Protestant know they have perfect contrition?

AND

How is it THEY escape the sacrament and all is OK for THEM but not for the Catholic?

As I mentioned, they don’t know. They are not treated differently than Catholics–the same principles apply to both (perfect charity, etc. can suffice for any baptized person).

 

[TULIPed]

First - well done on the name. I’m nominating you for the CAF All Star Name Team. Bravo!

Second - would you agree with the following statement:

"Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.

Costly grace is the treasure hidden in the field; for the sake of it a man will go and sell all that he has. It is the pearl of great price to buy which the merchant will sell all his goods. It is the kingly rule of Christ, for whose sake a man will pluck out the eye which causes him to stumble; it is the call of Jesus Christ at which the disciple leaves his nets and follows him."

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

That’s a big IF . It’s a condition. What if the Catholic skips that last part?

Q:​

If one’s mortal sin is forgiven with perfect contrition, why is the sacrament of confession needed to complete the process?

I think if one deliberately blows off confession, one’s sins would not be forgiven. If the person, through no fault of their own, doesn’t make it, their sins would be forgiven. Confession is still important because one cannot have certainty of having perfect confession.

steve-b:

Yes, that is the point…ergo forgiveness

Q:​

So How does a Protestant know they have perfect contrition?

AND

How is it THEY escape the sacrament and all is OK for THEM but not for the Catholic?

Genesis315:

As I mentioned, they don’t know. They are not treated differently than Catholics–the same principles apply to both (perfect charity, etc. can suffice for any baptized person).

But they can’t go to confession to finish the (conditional requirement) for mortal sins

 

[steve-b]

SteelArchangel:

From my understanding you are always forgiven 100% of the time by Jesus, no questions asked.

While I have never been denied absolution in the Confessional, I have been talked to at length by the priest. Trying to help rationalize the root of a sin, how to approach it, and the grace to overcome.

protestants get none of that. They raise their arms, shout and holler, “amen”, and it is done. You should see the protestant mega church my in laws go too. I’ve been a couple times (forced by my wife) and let tell you it’s almost like going to a rock concert.

Yet

John says he doesn’t recommend that for mortal sin. HERE

How would you respond to that

 

[SeraficLeo]

But what of those Protestants who confess at home, not in church?

I would think that in virtue of their baptism Protestants are or can be members of the Church (they certainly are at their baptism). Also, being “in church” is not necessary for confession if by church we understand e.g. a sacred building (even a Christian private residence/home can be called a “domestic church”).
Again in the situation you describe, I would understand the Protestant as confessing his or her sins to God and seeking forgiveness from Jesus Christ, understanding that only God can do this (absolve them of guilt from their sins and restore them to His grace). At this point, I am thinking of the Catholic belief of the priest being in persona Christi. It could be inferred that if the believer knew they were to seek the forgiveness particularly of their mortal or grave sins from Christ in and through His Church, from a priest who in absolving a sinner acts in persona Christi, then he or she may have done so.

 

[HSTV]

He does not recommend SOMEONE ELSE to pray for mortal sin.

he is saying we can pray for other poeple’s venial sin, and they will be forginven, but that does not work for mortal sin.

He is not saying you YOURSELF cant pray for your sins.

Furthermore, Jesus teached us to pray for our sins on the LORD prayer.

 

[halogirl]

Former Protestant here who has experienced a powerful visit of the Holy Spirit when converted from no faith to Christian and prayed for forgiveness. Several years later was led into a Catholic environment and converted. I can tell you that I was forgiven in that moment but God wasn’t finished with me. He is working all of the time in our lives and we slip so we need confession. If you are RAISED in a non catholic faith you are not told that confession is necessary. God reaches for you where you are at but just from own experience from 0 faith, I ended up in the RCC. That isn’t an accident. Went thru Protestantism via non Dom and am here. Have seen most changes in my life in just one short year in the RCC. God does move in those other churches but we are all meant to be as one.

 

[Bonaventurian]

Bonaventurian:

Only original sin at baptism

I’m pretty sure the Church teaches that all sins are forgiven at baptism, mortal and venial.

Yes, of course. Forgive me for not noting that.

 

[steve-b]

He does not recommend SOMEONE ELSE to pray for mortal sin.

he is saying we can pray for other poeple’s venial sin, and they will be forginven, but that does not work for mortal sin.

He is not saying you YOURSELF cant pray for your sins.

Furthermore, Jesus teached us to pray for our sins on the LORD prayer.

John isn’t restricting the point he’s making

16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John is saying, Prayer alone, is not enough when it comes to the forgiveness of mortal sin.

So How does the Church look at it?

the following examples from the CCC show, in the case of repentance of mortal sin, not to depend exclusively on personal feelings of remorse . Maybe one thinks it’s deep contrition when it isn’t… Perfect contrition may not have happened, that’s why Jesus established a supernatural sacrament so we do things His way, that He established, … not depend on one’s personal far less than perfect emotional state at the moment of contrition.

Examples: From the Catechism on this subject

#1395 CCC
the forgiveness of mortal sins - that is proper to the sacrament of Reconciliation.

#1457 CCC
Anyone who is aware of having committed a mortal sin must not receive Holy Communion, even if he experiences deep contrition, without having first received sacramental absolution, unless he has a grave reason for receiving Communion and there is no possibility of going to confession.

I.E. the Church warns against one depending on their contrition for forgiveness, as if they think it is perfect when it may NOT be

#1440
At the same time it (mortal sin) damages communion with the Church. For this reason conversion entails both God’s forgiveness and reconciliation with the Church, which are expressed and accomplished liturgically bythe sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation.
(Protestants are outside the Church. they can’t walk off the street and go to reconciliation)

#1445
“The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion, will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion, God will welcome back into his. Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God.”
That makes the point much bigger

#1497
Individual and integral confession of grave sins followed by absolution remains the only ordinary means of reconciliation with God and with the Church.

#1856
Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

Q:​

So to the topic, Protestants are outside the Church. So what do THEY do for assurance their mortal sins are forgiven?

 

[TULIPed]

So to the topic, Protestants are outside the Church. So what do THEY do for assurance their mortal sins are forgiven?

(Public Service Note: Reformed Protestants believe that all sins - even the smallest one that you don’t even know you’re doing - are “mortal” in that (we believe) any and all sin separates us from God. Hence the “T” in TULIP which (unfortunately for us) stands for “Total Depravity”. This digs the hole that Steve is putting us in even deeper - if that’s even possible. Carry on.)

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

So to the topic, Protestants are outside the Church. So what do THEY do for assurance their mortal sins are forgiven?

(Public Service Note: Reformed Protestants believe that all sins - even the smallest one that you don’t even know you’re doing - are “mortal” in that (we believe) any and all sin separates us from God. Hence the “T” in TULIP which (unfortunately for us) stands for “Total Depravity”. This digs the hole that Steve is putting us in even deeper - if that’s even possible. Carry on.)

To your point. Re: mortal sin and Reformed Protestants. Maybe you’ve seen this before and maybe not.

the response to your point is from a former Calvinist. He mentions mortal sins twice. Check it out. As well as his other points in his article https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/a-tiptoe-through-tulip

 

[Dhc8_Type]

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From the Lutheran Service Book.

 

[steve-b]

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From the Lutheran Service Book.

John was one that Jesus breathed on and gave John the ability to forgive or retain sins. The only way John could know what sins to retain or forgive, is to have the person confess their sins to John.

Jesus didn’t make the apostles mind readers. Obviously this was a much needed sacrament or Jesus wouldn’t have established it.

 

[SteelArchangel]

I’ve been to a few and doubt their sincerity I’d say close to about 90% of the time. You honestly think that protestants are confession, giving pause why they committed their sin, and penance themselves?

 

[SteelArchangel]

Thanks on the name call mate.

I would agree on the commentary of what defines grace is in that statement. However it has a protestant feel to it and does not provide the correct method which to attain it.

 

[SteelArchangel]

I don’t know how to respond per se to that. Basically pray for another who sins? And that’s a Catholic Bible link. protestants don’t use it if you are trying to dialogue with them.

 

[TULIPed]

That was written by a gentleman named Dietrich Bonhoeffer - a Lutheran. He was martyred by the Nazi’s towards the very end of World War 2. His faith in Christ led him back to Germany from the safety of the States. He gave his life for his Lord and Savior - and for his fellow countrymen. Here is a first hand account of how he died:

“The SS doctor who witnessed Bonhoeffer’s death later recalled a man “devout . . . brave and composed. His death ensued after a few seconds . . . I have hardly ever seen a man die so entirely submissive to the will of God.” Bonhoeffer sent one final message, to George Bell in England: “This is the end, for me the beginning of life.”

He is most famous for his book “The Cost of Discipleship”. Perhaps it might give you a different perspective on how we Protestants - much like you Catholics - aren’t all necessarily alike. My guess is - before he died, Bonhoeffer took his last confession very seriously. I doubt he “hollered”, but I know he said “Amen”.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer | Loyola Press

 

[AlmaRedemptorisMater]

I can say as a recent convert from protestantism, that the assurance of forgiveness is not there without the sacrament. Frankly, I find it extremely disingenuous for anyone to say God would do anything different than what He told us. As if He would be so arbitrary as to establish the Sacraments through His Church, then turn around and say, “Oh well, these people dont need them”

Also, speaking as one who just was confirmed, I am absolutely sick and tired of hearing about invincible ignorance. As if that is a common thing any more. This forum nearly stopped my conversion with that sort of chatter.

 

[rightness]

Protestants don’t have their sins forgiven if it is not done through the Sacrament of Reconciliation that was instituted by our Lord. Jesus gave the disciples the power to forgive and retain sins. It has to be done that way.

However, don’t get hung up on the whole salvation thing. We do everything we can to help people reach their salvation, but the one that wants to do it even more is our God. God wants forgive sins even more than people want themselves to be forgiven, however, it is not enough for sins to be forgiven. We have to cooperate with God to learn our lessons, overcoming guilt and shame to reach Him. Whether or not people are saved, protestants, Catholics, non-Christians, it’s not for us to decide, so it’s better to put your energies to help do some saving rather than think about people’s salvation.

 

[concretecamper1]

CCC 1452: “When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.”

Roman Catechism: “…the penitent who, through perfect contrition, accompanied by the desire of confession, has already obtained remission of his sins from God.”

A Protestant with perfect contrition for his sins could therefore be saved.

Since both Catechisms refer to the desire of the sacrament, I doubt that these paragraphs you quoted refers to protestants.