Do Protestants Really Hate Catholicism?

[SteveGC]

i can’t, i am speechless my friend this thread has taken on it’s own life, i’m not frustrated. there is another thread about being born again which would fit in with the topic of baptism.

Good point. We often get sidetracked on CAF threads. I’m guilty of it myself. Seems like every thread under apologetics eventually steers into a wide range of Catholicism vs Protestant debates. We should all try to pay special mind to the subject intended by the OP.

God Bless

 

[qui_est_ce]

"Originally Posted by Jerry Marino:

i can’t, i am speechless my friend this thread has taken on it’s own life, i’m not frustrated. there is another thread about being born again which would fit in with the topic of baptism.

Good point. We often get sidetracked on CAF threads. I’m guilty of it myself. Seems like every thread under apologetics eventually steers into a wide range of Catholicism vs Protestant debates. We should all try to pay special mind to the subject intended by the OP.

God Bless

I agree, but there is so much to learn! This is a forum for Catholic apologetics not discussing nonCatholic religions.

Steve, you’ve been throwing out snippets that add to my curiosity about the faith I’ve embraced my whole life!

 

[SteveGC]

I agree, but there is so much to learn! This is a forum for Catholic apologetics not discussing nonCatholic religions.

Steve, you’ve been throwing out snippets that add to my curiosity about the faith I’ve embraced my whole life!

Thanks, Christine. Likewise, I absorb so much fruitful knowledge from everyone here, Catholic and non-Catholic alike. It is, however, frustrating for some who really want to absorb and share knowledge on a “specific” topic, only to find that the subject has wandered off into a tangential smorgasboard of apologetics. There are threads that are generic enough in their titles to allow this type of conjecture. Perhaps this one was not one of them

If I were to give an answer to the specific thread title, I would say “no”. It’s far too broad to say that “protestants hate catholicism”. Many protestants have genuine love for Catholics, but can’t help but have disdain for what they’ve been told about the Catholic faith. In a way, I don’t blame them, nor the ones who taught them these falsehoods. The men in The Church themselves are partially to blame for the unnecessary, external Reformation, as much as the reformers themselves were. Reform was needed, but it needed to happen internally, not through schism. Oh well. Once it happened, it set off a chain of unfortunate events leading to misguided and ignorant accounts and teachings about what The Catholic Church truly is. With prayer, open-minds and understanding, perhaps we will all be reconciled as One.

God Bless

 

[Dchsknight]

Thanks, Christine. Likewise, I absorb so much fruitful knowledge from everyone here, Catholic and non-Catholic alike. It is, however, frustrating for some who really want to absorb and share knowledge on a “specific” topic, only to find that the subject has wandered off into a tangential smorgasboard of apologetics. There are threads that are generic enough in their titles to allow this type of conjecture. I suppose this one was not one of them

I will start a Good one.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Infants are baptized on the faith of the parents, biblically shown as entire “households” were baptized.

I thought you were to work out your own salvation? How can you except if you dont know?Once in the bible the whole household was baptized.So lets say if I believed in the devil my children would have to because of my choice?That’s not right.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

It’s kinda my fault.

I put up a thesis in response to the OT that Protestants just misunderstood Catholicism as unbiblical and that this was sometimes misinterpreted as hate. (Here’s the post.)

Then out came the Protestants to try and prove that Catholicism WAS unbiblical. The Catholics pushed back and explained the misunderstandings of our separated bretheren. And before we knew it, we were off topic.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

I guess we can stay off topic a bit longer.

I thought you were to work out your own salvation? How can you except if you dont know?

All Sacraments convey grace. Grace acts in your heart and soul to pull you along the path of your personal relationship with Christ.

Infants are not able to sin since they do not yet have reason. They are baptized to remit their original sin. Once they DO have reason, the baptismal grace serves to counteract the temptation they encounter in the world. They should then receive Confirmation as soon as possible, to receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit like the Apostles did at Pentecost, which will further strengthen them against temptation. As part of the Confirmation rite, they renew their baptismal promises now that they are able to confess their faith.

See, the Sacraments are there because we need Jesus. We can’t justify ourselves before God by our works alone. That’s been this whole discussion. The Sacraments convey grace and grace saves you, but it is also a call to holiness, to strive to emulate Jesus and to love Him. If at any time you reject this call, you are rejecting Jesus, and if you reject Jesus you reject the Father as well. But God is merciful and will forgive any sin (one exception but let’s not go there). So there’s a Sacrament to pull you out of that too (Reconciliation).

That is what is meant by working out your faith. It’s not just you alone. It’s Jesus working in you. But you have to let him.

Edit: Check out the first chapter of John’s gospel, specifically verses 16-18:

From his fullness we have all received, grace in place of grace, because while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

Without grace, you can’t even SEE God! If you can’t see God, then you don’t know where to go in your life, you don’t know how to have a personal relationship with Him. Which is why you need at least Baptism to get you started!
end edit

Once in the bible the whole household was baptized.So lets say if I believed in the devil my children would have to because of my choice?That’s not right.

If you lied during the profession of faith during your Baptism, Jesus would immediately act to pull you to Him. If right after your Baptism you reject him with full understanding of the consequences (e.g. by going back to making sacrifices to Baal or what have you), that’s a mortal sin and you lose His grace.

Does that make any sense? Hope so.

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

YES,GOOD AND BAD DEEDS BUT i DOUBT ANY CHRISTAINS WHO BELIEVE IN THE DIETY OF JESUS CHRIST WILL BE THERE. WHEN THE COVERED WAGON PEOPLE (SETTLERS) TRAVELED AND Set UP A TOWN etc ALOT OF PEOPLE NEVER SAW A CHURCH FOR A LONG TIME AND THEY KEPT THE FAITH AND PRAYED AND SANG SONGS UNDER THE STARRY SKY’S AND DANCED AROUND THE CAMP FIRES.THEY TAUGHT THEIR CHILDREN FAITH LOVE AND VALUES,DO UNTO OTHERS,TURN THE OTHER CHEEK ETC I’M SURE ALOT OF THEM WENT TO THE LORD.GOATS ARE A SIGN OF SATAN NOT OF DENOMINATIONS AND BELIEVERS,LOVE YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST WEATHER YOU THINK THEY ARE SAVED OR NOT THAT IS UP TO GOD TO DECIDE.OUR JOB IS TO LOVE AND BE KIND AND GENTLE,YOU CAN DRAW ALOT OF BEES WITH HONEY,HONEY. LOVE OF CHRIST NANCY

All that may be true, Nancy, but Scripture says what it says, doesn’t it, and all your good will cannot erase it.

 

[SteveGC]

I thought you were to work out your own salvation? How can you except if you dont know?

David’s given you a good explanation of baptismal grace as it fills the void left by original sin, and the subsequent need for the infant, when grown and able to make a reasonable choice for God, to do so (confirmation). In the time span between infancy and the age of reason, baptism gracefully brings that person adoptively into the family of God, as He commanded be done.

Once in the bible the whole household was baptized.So lets say if I believed in the devil my children would have to because of my choice? That’s not right.

If you believe in the devil, it’s quite likely your children will too, but it’s not definitive. They probably wouldn’t be baptized, making it that much more difficult for them to receive the grace of faith. Not impossible though. On the other hand, if you baptize them, it also doesn’t necessarily force them into belief and therefore, into Christianity per se. They are better equipped to believe, but baptism doesn’t “force” the issue. And, what’s not right about choosing God for our children? That’s absolutely “right”. God wants it that way. Or am I misunderstanding your comment there?

God Bless.

p.s. David, I’m excited for you as you near your entrance to The Church. God be with you this Easter Vigil.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

baptism? water? what does it do?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

baptism? water? what does it do?

*And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ *Acts 22:16

Weren’t you the one upset about this thread going off topic?

God bless

 

[DavidCatechumen]

It saves you from hell.

Baptism now saves you–not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience–through the resurrection of Jesus Christ…

1 Peter 3:21

Baptism removes all sin, both the original sin we acquire from Adam and the actual sins we committed during our lifetime before being baptized. Baptism permanently changes us:

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Romans 6:4.

Since Baptism involves that permanent change, it can’t be repeated in the event that you extinguish the presence of Jesus within you by committing a mortal sin. For that there is Reconciliation. (By the way, the Catholic Church accepts all baptisms done in the name of the Trinity as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:19). So your Protestant church probably has valid baptisms from the Catholic Church’s perspective!

 

[DavidCatechumen]

They probably wouldn’t be baptized, making it that much more difficult for them to receive the grace of faith. Not impossible though.

It’s not impossible because, although God established the Sacraments as the ordinary means to receive the grace given to us by Jesus, God is not bound by any of His creatures, even the Sacraments.

So God can choose to dispense His mercy in other ways. The Sacraments are just the nomal, expected way to obtain salvation and holiness. They carry the promises of God as spelled out in the Bible.

p.s. David, I’m excited for you as you near your entrance to The Church. God be with you this Easter Vigil.

Thank you! God be with you too.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Weren’t you the one upset about this thread going off topic?

God bless

the verse you quote acts 22:16, i don’t think that the baptism washes away the sins, i believe the washing of the sins is related more on the calling of his name (Jesus).

Jesus was baptized so is this to mean that he was found with sin and needed the baptism?

as for me being upset, nah. just joshing with you guys.

 

[SteveGC]

the verse you quote acts 22:16, i don’t think that the baptism washes away the sins, i believe the washing of the sins is related more on the calling of his name (Jesus).

Jesus was baptized so is this to mean that he was found with sin and needed the baptism?

as for me being upset, nah. just joshing with you guys.

Jesus, as He always does, sets the example for us, not just by telling us, but by doing himself (most magnificently demonstrated by His sacrifice). His baptism set the example for us to follow.

Water baptism, like the bread and wine of the Eucharist, like creating us from dust, like healing blindness with mud…all these things have in common something called “theandrics”…which is the unification, or marriage, of both the divine and the human elements in the work of God. In other words, the marriage of the spiritual and physical.

Bottom line, God has ALWAYS used material things to manifest His glory, to transmit His Grace. For example - A burning bush, a talking donkey, an ark, etc. This didn’t end with the birth, life and death of Christ. Baptism, through the material of water, effects this Grace for us in that same sense. Bread and wine literally, substantially, become Christ’s body and blood, soul and divinity in exactly the same sense. This is God using what we have on earth to communicate to us, enter into us, lead us, and ultimately bring us to Himself.

In a large sense, The Church Herself is the most visible theandric of them all…human (apostolic successors) and divine (Bride of Christ).

God Bless

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

the verse you quote acts 22:16, i don’t think that the baptism washes away the sins, i believe the washing of the sins is related more on the calling of his name (Jesus).

That is great Jerry, but I am going to go with what Scripture says and not with what you think.

God bless

 

[Jerry_Marino]

it’s about time someone is going to scripture to explain to me the meaning of water baptism, cause my friends as baby i was baptized in our lady of guadalupe catholic church but i did not show an act of faith my parents along with my godparents took me. i went ccd classes as a child and later completed my first communion but still did not show an act of faith in Christ our Lord and Savior.

so sticking on the topic of baptism does it wash away sins?

lets go to scripture please.

God bless.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

it’s about time someone is going to scripture to explain to me the meaning of water baptism, cause my friends as baby i was baptized in our lady of guadalupe catholic church but i did not show an act of faith my parents along with my godparents took me. i went ccd classes as a child and later completed my first communion but still did not show an act of faith in Christ our Lord and Savior.

so sticking on the topic of baptism does it wash away sins?

lets go to scripture please.

God bless.

This isn’t on topic, as the topic is about whether or not Protestants hate Catholicism. This will be the last post I post on Baptism in this thread.

And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ Acts 22:16

You could start your own thread on it. Or, you could search for threads which have already covered this and join in.

God bless

 

[Jerry_Marino]

you guys are the ones talking about baptism i just chimed in since i was bored. so back to topic and i’ve stated this before i love you man.

God bless you my friend

 

[selah603]

Wow! I have just spent the last 1 1/2 hours reading the whole thread. You guys are amazing! You have been so respectul to each other unlike some others I have read,

I used to be a heinz 57 protestant, skipping from one church to another because there was always a sense that something was not quite right. When I went to a “Christian” high school, I was taught that Catholicism was evil, wrong and possibly the “Whore of Babylong” from the book of Revelation.

I softenend my stance on that as I grew up and actually met Catholics (my parents didn’t like Catholics and there weren’t many in the town I grew up in)

As an adult I had many Catholic friends who love the Lord. I used to say ,“I know there are SOME catholics that are saved!” Pretty big of me, huh??

After a 3 yr journey, and kicking about half the way, I finally entered the Church in 2000!!

I can tell you this about hatred of Catholics. My husband is a cradle Catholic who really had no idea about the animosity that is out there. It is there. And it isn’t the worse from Protestants but from the new atheists and other groups.

I happen to be a writer for examiner.com and when I wrote an article about the possibility of Catholic hospitals being closed should the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) be passed, you would not believe the hateful comments I received. I was warned to have thick skin.–it is getting thicker all the time!! If you don’t believe some of the vitrolic verbal assaults I have had, please feel free to check them out.

The Catholic Church is one of the last politically correct group that people can outwardly insult and hate. (I didnt say the ONLY group!)

I love it here because of the atmosphere of respectful disagreement. Keep it up guys! I am learning more and more from you.

Thank you!
May the peace of Christ be with you,

Pam