Do Protestants Really Hate Catholicism?

[nancy_dalrymple]

Matthew 16:19, “And I will give unto thee [the Apostles] the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

When Jesus said this, he knew that the Apostles would not live forever (he is God, you know?) So He obviously intended for this ministry of “the keys” to continue. You can see it continue in the Bible, in Acts 1:18-26, where the eleven remaining Apostles elect Matthias to succeed Judas.

This process has continued down the ages. The Apostles chose Matthias as a bishop to succeed them. The bishops chose other bishops chose other bishops… (skip ahead 1,800 or so years) who elected this guy to lead the Church in the place of Peter. That’s why he’s not just a guy… he is the Vicar of Christ. The Apostles themselves have Catholic Bishops as their successors. (The Orthodox Bishops are also successors of the Apostles, but they are sadly separated.)

Besides binding and loosing (pretty powerful stuff), the Apostles also have authority to make oral Apostolic Tradition–interpretations of the Bible, much as the U.S. Supreme Court interprets the Constitution. (Except the Apostles are backed by the Holy Spirit, so they don’t mess up the way that the Supreme Court does). This authority is Biblical and these decisions cannot contradict the Bible. 2 Thess. 2:15. Hence, everything the Church does and teaches is also Biblical.

No one seriously challenges the apostolic origins of the Catholic Church.

People are just afraid of her. Maybe it’s the confessional, maybe it’s the mistruths that people spread about worshipping saints, maybe it’s the last vestiges of the decrees of anti-Catholic tyrants Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot, and maybe it is the continuing influence of Islam and Gnosticism (which were responsible for introducing heresies like memorialism and iconoclasm).

There is no need to be afraid.

Did you read the post above on what i said about being brought up Catholic and the things i was afraid of? Please check it out if you haven’t.What is RCIA? How long? can you receive communion? (Removed off topic political commentary.) You sound like a quiet person and i do like your love of Christ Nancy

 

[DavidCatechumen]

Replying by PM.

Nancy, political discussions are not allowed in this forum, so you may want to edit your post.

 

[Boxcar]

Hi, David. Does ‘harsh’ mean not true? Jerry said he believes he can commit murder and go to heaven without repenting of his sin. Is it possible for anyone to hold such a belief and be a Christian?

“Otherwise you don’t really believe in Him” means you’re not a Christian. Unless I’ve lost my marbles.

That said, you’re the most knowledgeable not-yet-Catholic person I’ve encountered. You are ready for the Vigil!! I will pray for you.

O Moses how did you get away with murder then get mad and break the tablets then appear on Mt Tabor?:bighanky:

 

[gookykookypig]

Did you read the post above on what i said about being brought up Catholic and the things i was afraid of? Please check it out if you havent.What is RCIA? How long? can you recieve comminion? Did you know 54% of Catholics voted for the devil in November? That’s because you didn’t listen to your Bishops. That’s what was just reported on the news by the Catholic dioces I can’t spell it. I voted for McCain,i thought he’d be alot better.but everyone wanted a stimulas check so they got bail outs instead. I knew a long time before not to vote him in,and I thank God for being with me to make the right decision. And wait it has just begun. You sound like a quiet person and i do like you love of Christ Nancy

Fail

 

[Jerry_Marino]

"I do"meaning you believe you can commit murder, not repent and still go to heaven. Wow!! You just threw out the Commandment against murder.

I have news for you, Jerry. You are not a Christian.

that ain’t what i said, without repentance your doom as far as throwing out the ten commandments, what about the 1st one.

 

[Church_Militant]

Did you read the post above on what i said about being brought up Catholic and the things i was afraid of? Please check it out if you haven’t.What is RCIA? How long? can you receive communion?

(Removed off topic political commentary.) You sound like a quiet person and i do like your love of Christ Nancy

Hi Nancy,
RCIA is Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. It is generally a once a week class that lasts for several months in a parish.

Candidates and Catechumens cannot receive the Eucharist until they are received into the Church at the Easter Vigil Mass, this is a practice that dates all the way back to the early church.

You might want to attend the Easter Vigil Mass at your nearby parish to check it out. It is a beautiful and very moving service. I think you’ll find it a great blessing.

As for you personally, If you are already a baptized Catholic, the process is actually much more simple, depending upon where you left off in the reception of the sacraments. PM me and we’ll explore that privately, because I was also in that situation when I came home.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I am beginning to have my doubts as to Nancy’s sincerity due to her use of the appeal to fear, but please be careful about framing this discussion in confrontational terms.

It appears Nancy is basing her faith on “anything but Catholic.” It is a reactionary stance based on misconceptions. Catholics whose faith formation and catechesis stopped at First Communion or Confirmation can be trapped in this childish understanding of what the Catholic Church actually practices and teaches.

Then there are those caught in a sinful lifestyle they don’t want to change, so they church shop until they find a church that blesses their sin and assures them of eternal salvation in spite of their refusal to “go and sin no more.”

What’s particularly sad is that these persons become consumed with bashing the CC and try to take as many people as possible down with them.

I admire Jerry M for actually reading and digesting posts.

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

that ain’t what i said, without repentance your doom as far as throwing out the ten commandments, what about the 1st one.

As I recall, Jerry, you were asked if you believed, under the OSAS doctrine, that you could commit murder, not repent and still go to heaven. Your answer was “I do.”

What about the First Commandment?

 

[Jerry_Marino]

then i’m wrong in the way i answered, i was focusing on the once saved always saved part, now to the other commandment that you all state as for murder, etc. well i would dive into the 1 john 1 cause upon true conversion one would no longer live in darkness but then we have the matter of the heart where Jesus says if you are angry it is as though you commit murder and if you look in lust.

oh how hard it is to lead a perfect life, boy we are all doomed.
Matthew 5
21 “You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’ 22 But I say, if you are even angry with someone,[e] you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.

some are guilty i know but i forgive them it was done in jest i am sure.

27 “You have heard the commandment that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 So if your eye—even your good eye—causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your hand—even your stronger hand—causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Gee-wit-a-kers, we all will be on disability, oh but thank God.

1 John 1:6 So we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness; we are not practicing the truth. 7 But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. 9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

well that is what i believe it is there you all seem to be bright enough to understand what i believe. i am saved no false pretense, i just stand on the promises of God.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

oh how hard it is to lead a perfect life, boy we are all doomed.

That is the curse of the old law. And that’s why Jesus had to die on the cross for us, so that by his grace we could be forgiven and saved.

That grace is given in many ways, but primarily through the Sacraments. One of which is Baptism. This is where you and the rest of Christianity part ways, sadly.

well that is what i believe it is there you all seem to be bright enough to understand what i believe. i am saved no false pretense, i just stand on the promises of God.

God promised that you would be saved if you repented, were baptized, and held a living faith in His Son until the end–recall that faith without works is dead. He did NOT promise that you could just tell Jesus “Lord, Lord,” and that you would be saved. Quite the opposite.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

have you kept the sacraments, better yet no one has told me the answer that i so desperately want to hear from you, what happens if any of the sacraments are not kept, any one of them, please enlighten me?

 

[qui_est_ce]

8 If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. 9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

well that is what i believe it is there you all seem to be bright enough to understand what i believe. i am saved no false pretense, i just stand on the promises of God.

So, Jerry, you agree that we must confess our sins if we are to be saved. Jerry has never said you must not repent sin. You think God will give the true believer a chance to repent before they die.

 

[qui_est_ce]

have you kept the sacraments, better yet no one has told me the answer that i so desperately want to hear from you, what happens if any of the sacraments are not kept, any one of them, please enlighten me?

God holds each person accountable for what they are capable. If you KNOW you are supposed to receive the Sacraments, but don’t do it, you sin.

We used to have a saying

“Do your best, and God will do the rest,
But don’t put God to the test, because He knows when your best it best”

Jerry, you are doing all you can to learn about the Lord and how you must live your life to gain eternal salvation.

God bless you.

 

[DavidCatechumen]

have you kept the sacraments, better yet no one has told me the answer that i so desperately want to hear from you, what happens if any of the sacraments are not kept, any one of them, please enlighten me?

I thought that was already explained earlier in this thread, sorry.

Baptism is necessary for salvation for the reasons stated above.
The Eucharist is also necessary for salvation, again because Jesus said so. John 6:53.

The other 5 Sacraments are OPTIONAL. (Reconciliation may become necessary if you commit a mortal sin, though.)

 

[qui_est_ce]

(Reconciliation may become necessary if you commit a mortal sin, though.)

Reconciliation is an awesome sacrament. I put it right up there behind the Eucharist.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Ladies and gentleman – what we have here is a perfect example of the doctrinal dance. Nancy never even attempted to refute my arguments from scripture – she simply changed the topic; a typical protestant tactic when backed into a corner.

Hang on a minute here… The only Church that I know of that believes in the real presence is the Catholic Church. Please tell me what protestant church you attend that holds to and has the ordinations for that. Even Lutherans hold to consubstantiation and NOT transubstantiation.

I don’t know what you are talking about with that. Below is what is spoken at our parish:
“May the Lord accept this sacrifice at your hands;
for the praise and glory of His name;
for our good and for the good of all his Church.”

I hope this helps.

You found it ! and just why would the body (sacrifice) not be exceptable to God and they usto say Lord if it be possible let tihs sacrifice be exceptable unto thee 1959. That is what they usto say when i went to church.60’s,70’s,80’s,.I went to funerals and to church with my dad now and then when i visit. Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

OK Where do i go to get the list of sins venial,mortal,i dont know anymore but what site do i got to? Thank You Nancy

 

[DavidCatechumen]

OK Where do i go to get the list of sins venial,mortal,i dont know anymore but what site do i got to? Thank You Nancy

I don’t think there is a list. Any sin that meets all of these conditions is a mortal sin:

1. Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
2. Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
3. Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner

If even ONE of these conditions is not met, then it is a venial sin only. You have to be aware that the sin is mortal and have full knowledge of the consequences. (condition 2) The only one who can judge sins is God, but a priest can draw on his training and experience (and his authority as a successor of the Apostles) to classify them.

This is what the Bible says, for reference:

1 John 5.16:
If you see your brother committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that.

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

…now to the other commandment that you all state as for murder, etc. well i would dive into the 1 john 1 cause upon true conversion one would no longer live in darkness but then we have the matter of the heart where Jesus says if you are angry it is as though you commit murder and if you look in lust.

oh how hard it is to lead a perfect life, boy we are all doomed.

We are doomed only if we violate the Commandments and do not repent. The Sacraments provide the means to God’s grace, including repentance and forgiveness.

You have asked what happens if we don’t “keep the Sacraments.” You seem to be using ‘keep the Sacraments’ the way we use ‘leep the law.’ Sacraments are not laws to be kept. They are the outward signs of God’s grace. They fortify our souls for the battle against Satan and lead us to lives of holiness.

8 If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. 9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

well that is what i believe it is there you all seem to be bright enough to understand what i believe. i am saved no false pretense, i just stand on the promises of God.

I don’t see where that quote or any of the others you post contains the guarantees you seem to see in them. The OSAS doctrine is clearly mistaken in its assumptions. Toward that end, I ask you to read Matthew 25:31-46 and tell me what that says about (1) OSAS and (2) faith alone. (I asked you that once before and you didn’t respond.)

 

[Boxcar]

Just as a lunatic had inherited his lunacy due to he sleeplessness of his or her ancestors during moonlit nights, Protestant new generation admits they hate Catholicism and they won’t accept any word from it.

The cause: Protestant pastors never seem to cease talking about Catholicism. These young Protestants from the Philippines are well bred yet they admit that their animosity to catholicism seems to be like “animosity to Satan Himself”

Rodrigo, a lad from Villaramos, Manukan, Zamboanga del Norte, Philippines, had a tete-a-tete talk with Francis Gonzales, your author here, this Sunday, March 8, 2009. He admits that he was born and was raised as a catholic, but because of the seemingly normal “catholic” environment he sullenly experienced from childhood, he was attracted to the Baptist faith which he says is an attractive “novelty” for him.

Yes, he thinks Catholicism is dull and is aging.

Francis Gonzales is a convert to Catholicism. Once a baptist and a member of the locally originated Iglesia ni Cristo sect, this author shared to the misinformed protestant lad about the beauty of Catholicism.

“Only in the catholic church can we see the universal point of view, Christ’s and God’s point of view. I am too much attracted and I want to lean to the porous walls that had witnessed many things in history than to concrete that had seen only paint,” Says he.

Pentecostals her in the city down south of the Philippines had stopped their daily bus missions

The reason, several passengers are annoyed seeing Pentecostals mounting buses only to ask for cash. “It is a very unbecoming act”, says Estrella Cajocon, a resident of a distant town, “that they prioritize ,monetray solicitation rather than preaching.”

Years back, these Pentecostals are the hot preachers of passenger vehicles. Yet because of a Catholic and tolerant majority, they seem to haven’t been appreciated and finally broke down their preaching tasks.

They parted as good friends, promising each other to pray mutually for one’s efforts to perfection.

---

i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq143/katolikongtunay/visit.gif

Did you ever learn in scripture what a ****Good Pharisee? look @Lk11-39