Do the Atheists have it right: Just Be Good for Goodness' Sake?

[grannymh]

Indeed. Which just goes to show that monotheistic dictatorship is horrid.

No Catholic here is claiming that we want a monotheistic dictatorship, right?

I don’t want any dictatorship. I literally enjoy using my free will.

At this point all I want is a recognition that all human life is worthy of profound respect, i.e, all human life is sacred which is another term for most valuable.

P.S. I’m not signing in as a Catholic (though I am one). I’m replying as a kindred human.

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[iamme]

The major advantage of being good for goodness’ sake is that each individual can decide what good is.

Thus, “I believe that it is good for me to have an affair as it contributes to my happiness” . For example.

i think you know better than to believe that thats how people would actually act. despite our own inner rationalizations for how the wrong things we do are still okay, we still recognize that theyre wrong.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

everything you listed applies to the roman catholic church at some point or another.

can you back that statement with any evidence?

 

[buffalo]

firstly, you dont know the first thing about me, while i have seen some of the hate youve shared.
i dont have anything against god in any way. if anything, i envy those who can have a relationship with him, but as for me, weve had a parting of ways, and he wont make it easy to mend things.

also, if what you have displayed in a lot of your posts is your loving your neighbor as you would yourself, then no, the world owuld not be a wonderful place, in any capacity.

ignoring all that, if we all obeyed every rule set before us, and followed one line of thought, i would also be against that as well, because that would be the most vapid, boring world i could imagine, like a world made up only of shrimp.

Huh? Hate I shared? I only hate one thing - evil.

I did miss another thing you wouldn’t like - True Christian charity demands fraternal correction.

I am glad you don’t hate God.

As far as experiencing God - would you like to experience God?

 

[iamme]

I don’t want any dictatorship. I literally enjoy using my free will.

At this point all I want is a recognition that all human life is worthy of profound respect, i.e, all human life is sacred which is another term for most valuable.

P.S. I’m not signing in as a Catholic (though I am one). I’m replying as a kindred human.

Blessings,
grannymh

here here!
tho respect is so easily lost, and so incredibly hard to earn back…

 

[Leela]

Hi Fran65,

The major advantage of being good for goodness’ sake is that each individual can decide what good is.
QUOTE]

I think it is indeed an advantage. Each individual having the right to decide for herself “what good is” is also what is meant by liberal democracy. Don’t you think liberal democracy is good? Or are you part of the Catholic theistic dictatorship buffalo camp?

Best,
Leela

 

[buffalo]

i think you know better than to believe that thats how people would actually act. despite our own inner rationalizations for how the wrong things we do are still okay, we still recognize that theyre wrong.

It is written in our heart.

[1955](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1955.htm’) The “divine and natural” law6 shows man the way to follow so as to practice the good and attain his end. The natural law states the first and essential precepts which govern the moral life. It hinges upon the desire for God and submission to him, who is the source and judge of all that is good, as well as upon the sense that the other is one’s equal. Its principal precepts are expressed in the Decalogue. This law is called “natural,” not in reference to the nature of irrational beings, but because reason which decrees it properly belongs to human nature:

Where then are these rules written, if not in the book of that light we call the truth? In it is written every just law; from it the law passes into the heart of the man who does justice, not that it migrates into it, but that it places its imprint on it, like a seal on a ring that passes onto wax, without leaving the ring.7 The natural law is nothing other than the light of understanding placed in us by God; through it we know what we must do and what we must avoid. God has given this light or law at the creation.8

**1958 **The natural law is *immutable *and permanent throughout the variations of history; it subsists under the flux of ideas and customs and supports their progress. The rules that express it remain substantially valid. Even when it is rejected in its very principles, it cannot be destroyed or removed from the heart of man. It always rises again in the life of individuals and societies: Theft is surely punished by your law, O Lord, and by the law that is written in the human heart, the law that iniquity itself does not efface.

 

[buffalo]

Hi Fran65,
Fran65;4693308:

The major advantage of being good for goodness’ sake is that each individual can decide what good is.
QUOTE]

I think it is indeed an advantage. Each individual having the right to decide for herself “what good is” is also what is meant by liberal democracy. Don’t you think liberal democracy is good? Or are you part of the Catholic theistic dictatorship buffalo camp?

Best,
Leela

I do not support a dictatorship.

But who can deny the goodness and truth seeking of the Catholic faith?

 

[iamme]

Huh? Hate I shared? I only hate one thing - evil.

I did miss another thing you wouldn’t like - True Christian charity demands fraternal correction.

I am glad you don’t hate God.

As far as experiencing God - would you like to experience God?

i totally apologize, i had you mistaken with another poster, bullfighter, and wish to withdraw my previous statement. seriously dude, sorry.

but yes, ive experienced god, and it wasnt a particularly pleasant one. i grew up in the christian faith, and spent most of my formative years ridiculed for nothing more than being different, by classmates, and the peers in church as well. i grew up with no friends, and therefore no social skills, and just when i made friends, by 17, they were apparently not the ones god wanted me to have, because all but one died a year, until i was 24, and just recently, i lost the last. its hard to accept that gods looking out for me when the bad never lets up, no matter how hard you try to hold on to hope. hope is a limited well, and mine has run dry.

 

[buffalo]

i totally apologize, i had you mistaken with another poster, bullfighter, and wish to withdraw my previous statement. seriously dude, sorry.

but yes, ive experienced god, and it wasnt a particularly pleasant one. i grew up in the christian faith, and spent most of my formative years ridiculed for nothing more than being different, by classmates, and the peers in church as well. i grew up with no friends, and therefore no social skills, and just when i made friends, by 17, they were apparently not the ones god wanted me to have, because all but one died a year, until i was 24, and just recently, i lost the last. its hard to accept that gods looking out for me when the bad never lets up, no matter how hard you try to hold on to hope. hope is a limited well, and mine has run dry.

Just so I understand - you feel God has abandoned you? How did you experience God?

 

[warpspeedpetey]

this church hasnt had that chance, but the middle east is all about god. its based on gods land, who is gods people, and why they deserve gods land more than the other group, and its also proven the result of a monotheistic dictatorship yields the same results, especially when more than one vies for the same area.

there is a huge difference between islam, and Catholicism.

completely different religions. completely different beliefs,

so any comparison between the two is invalid, the proverbial apples and oranges.

even were that not the case it doesnt negate the historical evidence that atheistic regimes have slaughtered hundreds of millions of innocents.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

not exactly, but by condemning atheistic rule, and saying that the churchs way of thinking is superior by proxy, its at least implying that, given that chance, the world would be a better place under catholic rule.
then again, i might just be inferring.

the Catholic Church held western civilisation together after the fall of the roman empire, it provided security when the secular authorities could not,

indeed the Churches morality is superior, its not hard to be superior to a system that has led to the murder of more than a hundred million people.

im not inferring it im saying it straight out.

and the proof of history bears me out.

 

[iamme]

there is a huge difference between islam, and Catholicism.

completely different religions. completely different beliefs,

so any comparison between the two is invalid, the proverbial apples and oranges.

even were that not the case it doesnt negate the historical evidence that atheistic regimes have slaughtered hundreds of millions of innocents.

it doesnt diminish the harm that the roman catholic church has caused through the centuries, either, they just havent had a chance the chance to play on the scale that others have, as their power has waned. and there is one huge similarity between islam (and judaeism, which i also mentioned) and catholicism, which is they all worship the same god, they just call him different names.

buffalo]Just so I understand - you feel God has abandoned you? How did you experience God?

i dont feel he has abandoned me per se, i just dont feel as tho hes given me much thought either way. how did i experience god? well, im not sure i totally understand the question, but i participated in church as well as i could, despite the other kids being little jerks in general, and i was baptised, and around 11-13, i felt as though i were very religious, and then i started to form my own worldview, and saw that things werent as simple as they were, and that the world is needlessly cruel, and unfair, and that just because you believe in something and try to make it true doesnt make it so. maybe i just didnt try hard enough, but its as hard as im willing to. im not going to die a husk because god didnt want to give a little back.

 

[chrisb]

I think it is indeed an advantage. Each individual having the right to decide for herself “what good is” is also what is meant by liberal democracy. Don’t you think liberal democracy is good? Or are you part of the Catholic theistic dictatorship buffalo camp?

I cannot speak for Fran but I don’t believe morality is decided by committee nor did the founding fathers of the United States of America… who created a ‘Republic’ not a ‘democracy’ with the sole purpose of protecting the God-Given ‘ineligible rights’ of it’s citizenry. You’re freedom ‘stops’ once it begins to effect the ‘ineligible rights’ of another. We are not in a vacuum but a community of equals. A Liberal Democracy is only as ‘good’ as the the members that make up it’s citizenry and their response to procure and safeguard ‘Justice’ for their neighbors. History teaches us that this is much more difficult in practice than it is on paper.

 

[iamme]

the Catholic Church held western civilisation together after the fall of the roman empire, it provided security when the secular authorities could not,

indeed the Churches morality is superior, its not hard to be superior to a system that has led to the murder of more than a hundred million people.

im not inferring it im saying it straight out.

and the proof of history bears me out.

well, i have to disagree and say youre wrong.
since youre wholeheartedly in tune to whatever the church tells you, it can make you blind to what you dont want to believe. theres much evidence that the church has committed many atrocities that it has tried to pass off as holy and good. some truly sickening things, all in the name of god.

 

[buffalo]

it doesnt diminish the harm that the roman catholic church has caused through the centuries, either, they just havent had a chance the chance to play on the scale that others have, as their power has waned. and there is one huge similarity between islam (and judaeism, which i also mentioned) and catholicism, which is they all worship the same god, they just call him different names.

i dont feel he has abandoned me per se, i just dont feel as tho hes given me much thought either way. how did i experience god? well, im not sure i totally understand the question, but i participated in church as well as i could, despite the other kids being little jerks in general, and i was baptised, and around 11-13, i felt as though i were very religious, and then i started to form my own worldview, and saw that things werent as simple as they were, and that the world is needlessly cruel, and unfair, and that just because you believe in something and try to make it true doesnt make it so. maybe i just didnt try hard enough, but its as hard as im willing to. im not going to die a husk because god didnt want to give a little back.

What exactly are you asking of God?

 

[chrisb]

well, i have to disagree and say youre wrong.
since youre wholeheartedly in tune to whatever the church tells you, it can make you blind to what you dont want to believe. theres much evidence that the church has committed many atrocities that it has tried to pass off as holy and good. some truly sickening things, all in the name of god.

And your anger and bias doesn’t serve to blind you to facts?

 

[buffalo]

well, i have to disagree and say youre wrong.
since youre wholeheartedly in tune to whatever the church tells you, it can make you blind to what you dont want to believe. theres much evidence that the church has committed many atrocities that it has tried to pass off as holy and good. some truly sickening things, all in the name of god.

The Church is a hospital for sinners. No member is without sin. The fact that it is a place of healing and people fail to live up to its message does not invalidate its message. The great thing about it is people try and try again to live its message. But we are human and cannot be God.

The Irrational Atheist pretty much demolishes the idea most wars were fought for God.

 

[iamme]

I cannot speak for Fran but I don’t believe morality is decided by committee nor did the founding fathers of the United States of America… who created a ‘Republic’ not a ‘democracy’ with the sole purpose of protecting the God-Given ‘ineligible rights’ of it’s citizenry. You’re freedom ‘stops’ once it begins to effect the ‘ineligible rights’ of another. We are not in a vacuum but a community of equals. A Liberal Democracy is only as ‘good’ as the the members that make up it’s citizenry and their response to procure and safeguard ‘Justice’ for their neighbors. History teaches us that this is much more difficult in practice than it is on paper.

whatever the country started as, it is a different creature now, tho we hold the same ideals. we may be a more “equality” loving country than others, but we are far from equal in many, many respects. and of course its harder in practice than it is on paper, because everyone has different degrees and standards for right and wrong, thats what makes us individuals, but we do have a collective reasoning of whats more right or wrong than something else, and it is decided by a committee. its the judicial branch. also, our rights are inalienable, not ineligible… those are VERY different things

 

[iamme]

The Church is a hospital for sinners. No member is without sin. The fact that it is a place of healing and people fail to live up to its message does not invalidate its message. The great thing about it is people try and try again to live its message. But we are human and cannot be God.

The Irrational Atheist pretty much demolishes the idea most wars were fought for God.

oh, im sure there are plenty of reasons besides “god” that wars were fought over. but many many wars were fought under the banner of god, and thats what theyre remembered for, even if that wasnt the sole cause.