Do the Church Father's say All graces comes through Mary?

[jmj1984]

I was discussing this on another thread started by TrueLight, many seem to subscribe to the idea that ALL graces come through Mary, and I was wondering if someone could show where the church fathers say this?

The church cannot develop new doctrines but merely more faithfully expound those found in the deposit of the faith, now as the faith of the fathers is the faith of the church if all Graces do in fact come through Mary then the consensus of the Church Fathers should support this.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I was discussing this on another thread started by TrueLight, many seem to subscribe to the idea that ALL graces come through Mary, and I was wondering if someone could show where the church fathers say this?

The church cannot develop new doctrines but merely more faithfully expound those found in the deposit of the faith, now as the faith of the fathers is the faith of the church if all Graces do in fact come through Mary then the consensus of the Church Fathers should support this.

From THis Rock, Volume 17, #8
If this is, indeed, Church teaching, it must be reconciled with Scripture, which says that “there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 2:5).

Church documents and papal writings speak clearly. The Second Vatican Council states that “the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adiutrix, and Mediatrix” (*Lumen Gentium *62). The Council refers to Pope St. Pius X, who said that Mary is the “dispensatrix of all the gifts and is the ‘neck’ connecting the head of the mystical body to the members. But all power flows through the neck” (*Ad Diem Illum *13).

Other popes and prominent saints have taught the same. In* Octobri Mense Adventante*, Pope Leo XIII wrote:
Nothing at all of that very great treasury of all grace that the Lord brought us—for “grace and truth came through Jesus Christ” [John 1:17]—nothing is imparted to us except through Mary, since God so wills.In Inter Sodalicia, Pope Benedict XV told us:
Every kind of grace we receive from the treasury of the redemption is ministered as it were through the hands of the same sorrowful Virgin.Pope Pius XI concurred in Ingravescentibus Malis:
We know that all things are imparted to us from God the greatest and best through the hands of the Mother of God.This is only a sampling of consistent papal teaching: The Church does teach that Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces,

Branches of the Vine

The idea that Jesus alone can mediate grace actually contradicts Scripture: Ephesians 4:29 tells us that you and I are to “impart grace” to others by our words. As members of the body of Christ, we are called to “impart” (or mediate) grace in a variety of ways, including ministries of healing, teaching, and prayer.

The key to a correct understanding of 1 Timothy 2:5 is to see that the one mediator stands “between God and men.” Only Jesus Christ can stand for us before God and gain our salvation and all grace. But what he has gained can be distributed from man to man among the members of his body. What he gives to me, I can, by his power, share with you, and vice versa. In fact, we experience this on a daily basis.

Jesus is the source of grace. As branches abiding in the Vine, we can distribute his grace. Because of his mediation before God on our behalf—because he has gained grace for us and entrusts us with that grace—we are able to impart grace to others.

In calling Mary the Mediatrix of all graces, the Church does not mean that she is a rival for Jesus’ unique place. Vatican II clarified the Church’s position on 1 Timothy 2:5–6:
The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ but rather shows its power. For all the saving influences of the Blessed Virgin on men originate not from some inner necessity but from the divine pleasure. They flow from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rest on his mediation, depend entirely on it, and draw all their power from it. In no way do they impede the immediate union of the faithful with Christ. Rather, they foster this union. (LG 60)Christ makes it possible for Mary to mediate grace and desires her to do so because he has planned it that way.

Knowing, then, that the Church cannot teach error, we are able, by faith, to accept that Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces.

 

[justtryin]

Mediatrix in the early Church

By the fourth century, the Church Fathers manifested a profound understanding of Mary’s function as Mediatrix. In reference to the Blessed Virgin, St. Ephraem (373) said: “With the Mediator, you are the Mediatrix of the entire world” (S. Ephraem, Syri opera graeca et latine, ed., Assemani, v. 3, Romae, pp. 525, 528-9, 532). St. Cyril of Alexandria, in one of the greatest Marian sermons of antiquity, said: “Hail Mary Theotokos, venerable treasure of the whole world…it is you through whom the Holy Trinity is glorified and adored,…through whom the tempter, the devil is cast down from heaven, through whom the fallen creature is raised up to heaven, through whom all creation, once imprisoned by idolatry, has reached knowledge of the truth, through whom holy baptism has come to believers…through whom nations are brought to repentance…” (Hom. in Deiparam, PG 65, p.681). Antipater of Bostra, another Father of the Council of Ephesus (AD 431), wrote: “Hail you who acceptably intercede as a Mediatrix for mankind.” St. Andrew of Crete, St. John Damascene, St. Germanus of Constantinople, St. Peter Damian, St. Bernard of Clairvaux and St. Bernardine of Siena all spoke either explicitly of Mary as Mediatrix of all Graces or of Marian mediation. Such citations became ever more frequent by numerous Doctors of the Church, mystics, saints, and writers throughout the Middle Ages up to the modern era. St. Bernard of Clairvaux stated: “God has willed that we should have nothing which would not pass through the hands of Mary” (Hom. III in vig. nativit., n. 10, PL 183, 100).

Advocate in the early Church

The early Church was quick to confirm Mary’s role as Advocate in God’s plan of salvation. By the second century, St. Irenaeus had said: “And whereas Eve had disobeyed God, Mary was persuaded to obey God, that the Virgin Mary might become advocate (advocata) of the virgin Eve” (Adversus Haereses V, C. 19, 1). St. Ephraem called Mary the “friendly advocate of sinners” (S. Ephraem Syri testim. de B.V.M. mediatione, Ephermerides Theologicae Lovanienses, IV, fasc. 2, 1927). Other Fathers of the Church referring to Mary’s advocacy were St. Germanus of Constantinople, Saint Romanos the Singer, and St. Bernard of Clairvaux. It should also be noted that ancient Marian prayers manifested a confidence in Mary’s power of maternal intercession in difficult times for her spiritual children in faith. One such prayer was the Sub Tuum (3rd century): “We fly to your patronage, O holy Mother of God, despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us from all danger, O ever glorious and blessed Virgin.” Mary’s advocacy in no way implies that we cannot pray directly to God ourselves; moreover, Jesus himself taught us to pray to “Our Father” in heaven. Notwithstanding, Christians have long known the powerful intercession of Our Lady before God, and therefore have invoked the Mother of Jesus to unite her prayers with her children’s ever since the early days of the Church, as can be seen with the Sub Tuum prayer.

The rest can be found HERE

Hope this is of some help.

 

[jmj1984]

thanks, but you’ll notice I asked for Church fathers not popes or scriptural interpretation or interpretation of Vatican II.

 

[jmj1984]

The rest can be found HERE

Hope this is of some help.

Thanks, I’ll have a look

 

[jmj1984]

Nope, still looking for evidence that the consensus of the church fathers supports the idea that ALL graces come through Mary, and yes I am sincere in looking for this evidence.

 

[At_Trent]

I suppose all those popes and churchmen throughout the centuries are heretics. They are all wrong, but no one ever took time to say so

 

[CradleCath]

Nope, still looking for evidence that the consensus of the church fathers supports the idea that ALL graces come through Mary, and yes I am sincere in looking for this evidence.

Well, I don’t think you’ll find it, because it’s not the consensus of the Church fathers. We can pray to Mary to pray FOR us that God may give us the grace we need…but, the Grace, itself, comes from Him.

I do believe that Mary’s intercession is very powerful, still the grace comes from God.

 

[At_Trent]

“God, who gave us Jesus Christ, wills that all graces that have been, that are, and will be dispensed to men to the end of the world through the merits of Jesus Christ, should be dispensed by the hands and through the intercession of Mary.”
St. Alphonsus Liguori (d. 1787), The Glories of Mary, Ch. 5.

 

[Planty_Pall]

Here is Ludwig Ott:

“Express testimonies, though few in number, to Mary’s mediatrix of grace are found since the eighth century.”

This is not then, a doctrine taught by the Fathers. Nevertheless, Ott has a positive conclusion with regards to whether the doctrine is true. How can he do this? Note that he assigns two ways in which Mary is mediatrix of all graces.

The doctrine of Mary’s Universal Mediation of Grace based on her co-operation in the Incaranation is so definitely manifest in the sources of the Faith, that nothing stands in the way of a dogmatic definition. Her position as Mediatrix of Grace in virtue of her intercession in Heaven is less definitely attested. Since, however, it is organically associated with Mary’s Spiritual Motherhood which in turn is based on Scripture and with her intimate participation in the work of her Divine Son, its definition does not seem impossible.

—Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, TAN Books 1974, p. 215

It would be a novelty and a corruption of true dogma to suggest that salvation by faith alone is proper development in that it contradicts what has been previously taught by the Fathers of the Church. But IF Mary is the Mediatrix of All Graces, I suggest that it need not necessarily be taught explicitly by the Fathers of the Church.

Think about this. We don’t have any Fathers of the Church teaching papal infallibility, but the truth follows from the Tradition of the Church on the Primacy of the Roman Bishop. Patristic references to the Assumption of Mary are pretty scarce. I think St. John Damscene, who was very late, is perhaps the first to make reference to it. Catholics of our day have benefitted from 2,000 years of the Holy Ghost shining light on the Sacred Deposit of the Faith as expounded by the Fathers.

I would highly recommend John Henry Cardinal Newman’s Essay on the Development of Christian Dogma who argues that through legitimate development, theology makes progress in the Church. I am not saying he is the last word on the subject, but he at least demonstrates the difference between organic development and corruptions. If the Mediatrix doctrine is true, it isn’t new doctrine, but greater light and accumulated knowledge has informed and made more clear the old doctrine.

It can be a difficult balance, but we can’t throw out legitimate development from a fear of corruption. Vatican Council I insisted on both:

Hence, too,that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding. [Illegitimate Increase]

May understanding, knowledge and wisdom increase as ages and centuries roll along, and greatly and vigorously flourish, in each and all, in the individual and the whole church: but this only in its own proper kind, that is to say, in the same doctrine, the same sense, and the same understanding. [Legitimate Increase]

—Session Three, Ch. 4

We may never teach anything contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers. I do not say we may. But neither are we strictly limited to teaching that which the Fathers explicitly taught. Papal infallibility is complementary to the teachings of the Fathers. There is no contradiction, even though the Fathers do not teach it explicitly. I am confident that if the saintly Fathers of the Church who praised our Lady’s virtues could see the growing mind of the Church in medieval times on up to our own in relation to the prerogatives of the great Mother of God, they would not be appalled. They would say, “Why didn’t I think of that?”

Sts. Augustine and Irenaeus, pray for us.

PP

 

[At_Trent]

“God has willed that we should have nothing which would not pass through the hands of Mary;”

“This is the will of Him who wanted us to have everything through Mary.”

St. Bernard of Clairvaux

 

[At_Trent]

Nope, still looking for evidence that the consensus of the church fathers supports the idea that ALL graces come through Mary, and yes I am sincere in looking for this evidence.

Why do you propose that you yourself get to set the bar ? Besides, can you quote a Doctor of the Church who says otherwise ? Just one ?

 

[Planty_Pall]

“God has willed that we should have nothing which would not pass through the hands of Mary;”

“This is the will of Him who wanted us to have everything through Mary.”

St. Bernard of Clairvaux

St. Bernard is great and so is St. Alphonsus who someone else cited. But they are too late. Our original poster is limiting us to the patristic evidence.

Not every Father spoke of everything. Unanimous consent of the Fathers has NEVER meant that we only believe that which ALL of the Fathers have passed down in writing. What it does mean is that we may not depart from that which many Fathers have taught and from which there is dissent from another Father.

But what about the question of Mary as Mediatrix? We can’t get out of the question by saying the Fathers didn’t teach it, therefore we won’t believe it. We have to go about considering what the Fathers would have believed if they had ever even considered the question. I suggest that the popes that lived after the definition of the Immaculate Conception beginning with Leo XIII have been nailing it right down and faithful Catholics may trust in their teaching.

 

[justtryin]

In addition to the Church Fathers cited in the article I linked, there are also Doctors of the Church who have taught this.

St. Irenaeus, who represents the Churches of Asia where he was trained, the Church of Rome where he lived, and the Churches of Gaul where he taught, wrote (Adv. haeres., V, 19, I): “As Eve, seduced by the discourse of the (rebellious) Angel, turned away from God and betrayed His word, so Mary heard from the Angel the good tidings of the truth. She bore God in her bosom because she obeyed His word. … The human race, enchained by a virgin, was delivered by a virgin …; the prudence of the serpent yielded to the simplicity of the dove; the bonds which chained us in death were broken.”

In a prayer used in the second nocturn of the Office of Mary Mediatrix, St. Ephrem concludes from this parallel between Eve and the Mother of God, that "Mary is, after Jesus, the mediator par excellence, the mediatrix of the entire world, and that it is through her that we obtain all spiritual goods (tu creaturam replesti omni genere beneficii caelestibus laetitiam attulisti, terrestria salvasti).

St. Germanus of Constantinople (Oratio 9, PG, XCVIII, 377 ff., quoted in the same nocturn of the Office) even says: “No one is saved except by thee, O most holy; no one is delivered except through thee, O most immaculate; no one receives the gifts of God except through thee, O purest.”

St. Bernard says: “O our mediatrix, O our advocate, reconcile us with thy Son; recommend us to thy Son; present us to thy Son” (Second sermon In adventu, 5). “It is the will of God that we should have everything through Mary” (On the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, no. 7). “She is full of grace; the overflow is poured out on us” (Sermon II on the Assumption, no. 2).

catholictradition.org/Christ/mediatrix.htm

 

[Planty_Pall]

Why do you propose that you yourself get to set the bar ? Besides, can you quote a Doctor of the Church who says otherwise ? Just one ?

There you go At Trent.

We can’t quote a Father that says otherwise either. No Father ever denied that Our Lady was Mediatrix of All Graces.

 

[TrueLight]

In addition to the Church Fathers cited in the article I linked, there are also Doctors of the Church who have taught this.

St. Germanus of Constantinople (Oratio 9, PG, XCVIII, 377 ff., quoted in the same nocturn of the Office) even says: “No one is saved except by thee, O most holy; no one is delivered except through thee, O most immaculate; no one receives the gifts of God except through thee, O purest.”

All I can say to this is that in his enthusiasm and love for the Blessed Mother, he went a little too far. It’s a good thing Saints are not necessarily infallible.

 

[At_Trent]

There you go At Trent.

We can’t quote a Father that says otherwise either. No Father ever denied that Our Lady was Mediatrix of All Graces.

This is true

 

[justtryin]

Well, I don’t think you’ll find it, because it’s not the consensus of the Church fathers. ***We can pray to Mary to pray FOR us that God may give us the grace we need…but, the Grace, itself, comes from Him. ***

I do believe that Mary’s intercession is very powerful, still the grace comes from God.

Noone has denied that God alone is the source of Grace.

 

[jmj1984]

This is true

Nice way to turn the tables but ultimately I asked for evidence that the fathers believed not, not insinuations, rhetoric or otherwise, neither is lack of evidence, evidence.

 

[At_Trent]

Noone has denied that God alone is the source of Grace.

Exactly. Mediatrix does not equal source.