Do those who leave the Church go to Hell?

[CMatt25]

The Catechism teaches that one who knows the Catholic Church is the one true Church of Christ and refuses to remain inside cannot be saved.

Have always questioned this judgement in CCC if who is saved is not answerable by man but only by God.

 

[mdgspencer]

Only when certain things happen is something a mortal sin. For one thing, the person has to be fully aware that it is a mortal sin. I do not believe that every Catholic who as become a Protestant has such an awareness. Leaving the Church could be a mortal sin, but the conditions for it to be a mortal sin would have to be involved.
I agree with what other people say here. The Church has never said anyone is in hell. If anyone who left the Church was in hell, it could be possible to say people are in hell, and the opening poster could receive a yes answer. But it is possible that in some cases it is not a sin at all, as when the person received a poor religious education and never thought it wrong to leave the Church. I am afraid that in view of the condition of religious education today in some places, it is possible for some Catholics not to realize that something may be wrong if they leave the Catholic Church.

 

[CMatt25]

Only when certain things happen is something a mortal sin. For one thing, the person has to be fully aware that it is a mortal sin. I do not believe that every Catholic who as become a Protestant has such an awareness. Leaving the Church could be a mortal sin, but the conditions for it to be a mortal sin would have to be involved.
I agree with what other people say here. The Church has never said anyone is in hell. If anyone who left the Church was in hell, it could be possible to say people are in hell, and the opening poster could receive a yes answer. But it is possible that in some cases it is not a sin at all, as when the person received a poor religious education and never thought it wrong to leave the Church. I am afraid that in view of the condition of religious education today in some places, it is possible for some Catholics not to realize that something may be wrong if they leave the Catholic Church.

So if a Catholic has been properly catechized and understands what the Catholic Church teaches, but they still do not believe something is a mortal sin as defined by the Church, then they can be saved without having repented at the time of death?

 

[PRmerger]

So if a Catholic has been properly catechized and understands what the Catholic Church teaches, but they still do not believe something is a mortal sin as defined by the Church, then they can be saved without having repented at the time of death?

Let’s change the above ever so slightly: So if a Catholic has been properly catechized and understands what -]the Catholic Church /-] Jesus teaches, but they still do not believe something is a mortal sin as defined by -]the Church,/-] Jesus then they can be saved without having repented at the time of death?

It makes it a very interesting paragraph, no?

Let’s leave out the discussion about whether the Church actually speaks for Christ (ignoring, of course, Luke 10:16 et al)…do you think that someone can not believe something that Jesus proclaimed and still be saved?

 

[CMatt25]

Let’s change the above ever so slightly: So if a Catholic has been properly catechized and understands what -]the Catholic Church /-] Jesus teaches, but they still do not believe something is a mortal sin as defined by -]the Church,/-] Jesus then they can be saved without having repented at the time of death?

It makes it a very interesting paragraph, no?

Let’s leave out the discussion about whether the Church actually speaks for Christ (ignoring, of course, Luke 10:16 et al)…do you think that someone can not believe something that Jesus proclaimed and still be saved?

PR, you can not both change the question and then “leave out” at the same time. Well you can of course. You just did. But my question stands for anyone who wants to answer it as it was posed.

 

[PRmerger]

PR, you can not both change the question and then “leave out” at the same time. Well you can of course. You just did. But my question stands for anyone who wants to answer it as it was posed.

My question was a rhetorical one, Matt, made to make you understand the nature of *your *question.

If someone says they disagree with Jesus, yet still says they’re going to be united with him in eternity, it really makes no sense, eh?

And, as the only way you know anything at all about what Jesus said, is through THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, it stands to reason that anyone who disagrees with the Church, as a well catechized adult, is disagreeing with Jesus.

[SIGN1]For you would not know anything at all about Jesus and his message were it not for the CC[/SIGN1].

 

[CMatt25]

it stands to reason that anyone who disagrees with the Church, as a well catechized adult, is disagreeing with Jesus.

[SIGN1]For you would not know anything at all about Jesus and his message were it not for the CC[/SIGN1].

Not necessarily PR. Oh sure you might make the argument Jesus used the Catholic Church at the time to compile the order of Christian Scripture. God can use us as He sees fit. And then you can go on to say the Catholic Church has always been and remains His one true Church. But that only puts everything in a neat little box for you. You forget the matters of interpretaion, faith, the Reformation, and so forth.

 

[BenMasada]

No, hell is a hoax. There is no such a thing as hell. Hell is what one makes of his life or the life of another here on earth.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

No, hell is a hoax. There is no such a thing as hell. Hell is what one makes of his life or the life of another here on earth.

Greetings BenMasada,

Hell is very real. I pray by the grace of God that you don’t find out personally that there is a Hell.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[PRmerger]

No, hell is a hoax. There is no such a thing as hell. Hell is what one makes of his life or the life of another here on earth.

If hell is a hoax then our Founder lied.

I certainly hope that this is not what you’re positing on a Catholic forum.

 

[josephback]

Actually I believe it says we know where the Church is (the Catholic Church) but we do not know where it is not. So we can’t say for sure that, say Protestants, are not saved. Ultimately, why do we concern on who is saved or not? Only God judges. Let us be the best Christians we can be.

It might also say that but the question wasn’t about Protestants.

 

[Bezant]

Complicated question. In my opinion ‘no.’ I don’t think any mature person leaves the Catholic Church for fun. If people decide to leave, rather than not practice, they’re usually making a serious decision.

In any case, with all the competing religions how does God expect everyone to know the ‘right’ choice?

 

[PRmerger]

Complicated question. In my opinion ‘no.’ I don’t think any mature person leaves the Catholic Church for fun. If people decide to leave, rather than not practice, they’re usually making a serious decision.

In any case, with all the competing religions how does God expect everyone to know the ‘right’ choice?

Well, I think the answer to* your* question is not a complicated one: God expects everyone to know the the “right” choice because He left us a guide to this “right” choice: the Catholic Church.

 

[jericho777]

It is an interesting question since the the cc and eo split nearly 1000 years ago excommunicating each other (damning each other to hell) why should we beleive either? Which one is the true church if any?

 

[Bezant]

In any case, with all the competing religions how does God expect everyone to know the ‘right’ choice?

Well, I think the answer to* your* question is not a complicated one: God expects everyone to know the the “right” choice because He left us a guide to this “right” choice: the Catholic Church.

You assume God made the Catholic Church The Truth to mankind in an obvious way. He clearly didn’t.

 

[Bezant]

It is an interesting question since the the cc and eo split nearly 1000 years ago excommunicating each other (damning each other to hell) why should we beleive either? Which one is the true church if any?

That’s not what my contention is, although you stress my points – how are we (humans) supposed to know what is ‘The Truth’ when competing religions/communities claim ‘The Truth’? And if The Truth isn’t obvious to us, why would we be held responsible for not believing it?

The case of the Catholic vs. the Orthodox Church is an excellent matter.

They both claim to have been ‘the Truth’ since Pentecost. They both back up their arguments with Scripture, Tradition, and their historical perspectives. How can such a choice be obvious?

 

[PJM]

=mdgspencer;8391392]Only when certain things happen is something a mortal sin. For one thing, the person has to be fully aware that it is a mortal sin. I do not believe that every Catholic who as become a Protestant has such an awareness. Leaving the Church could be a mortal sin, but the conditions for it to be a mortal sin would have to be involved.
I agree with what other people say here. The Church has never said anyone is in hell. If anyone who left the Church was in hell, it could be possible to say people are in hell, and the opening poster could receive a yes answer. But it is possible that in some cases it is not a sin at all, as when the person received a poor religious education and never thought it wrong to leave the Church. I am afraid that in view of the condition of religious education today in some places, it is possible for some Catholics not to realize that something may be wrong if they leave the Catholic Church.

NO! Not the entire truth!

There are sins and sinful actions that the church terms “intrinsic evils” that are every time; every where and by every one Mortal sins simply because they are grossly evil acts and there gravity is either known or ought to be known by every one.

Acts like abortion [including ALL support, even political of it], sodomy, murder, rape, missing Mass on purpose, ruining another reputation, and denial of God.

Leaving the CC as a adult, for any reason, would almost certainly be a Mortal sin as it is factually denial of God; God’s truths, and Gods One Chuirch, one God, one Faith.

READ this carefully. It was written to Catholics, by Catholics and for Catholics. NO OTHER “CHURCH” existed when this was written.

**Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10: **For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, [Baptized] who have tasted the heavenly gift, [CATHOLIC HOLY COMMUNION] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [CONFIRMED AS A CATHOLIC -your decision!] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [HAD THE BIBLE PROPERLY, FULLY AND TRUTHFULLY EXPLAINED AT MASS] if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.

God Bless,
Pat

God Bless, Pat

 

[Bezant]

NO! Not the entire truth!

There are sins and sinful actions that the church terms “intrinsic evils” that are every time; every where and by every one Mortal sins simply because they are grossly evil acts and there gravity is either known or ought to be known by every one.

Acts like abortion [including ALL support, even political of it], sodomy, murder, rape, missing Mass on purpose, ruining another reputation, and denial of God.

If all those sins are equally mortal sins, and all those sins are equally condemnable:

There could be a sinner condemned to the state of hell for deliberately missing mass (without repenting) – the same punishment as a homocidal, sodomising rapist.

Why would God rule the condemnation to two VASTLY different offenses?

Leaving the CC as a adult, for any reason, would almost certainly be a Mortal sin as it is factually denial of God; God’s truths, and Gods One Chuirch, one God, one Faith.

Why would God condemn an apostate, if that Truth wasn’t made apparent to him?

READ this carefully. It was written to Catholics, by Catholics and for Catholics. NO OTHER “CHURCH” existed when this was written.

Tell that to the Orthodox members.

 

[jericho777]

NO! Not the entire truth!

There are sins and sinful actions that the church terms “intrinsic evils” that are every time; every where and by every one Mortal sins simply because they are grossly evil acts and there gravity is either known or ought to be known by every one.

Acts like abortion [including ALL support, even political of it], sodomy, murder, rape, missing Mass on purpose, ruining another reputation, and denial of God.

Leaving the CC as a adult, for any reason, would almost certainly be a Mortal sin as it is factually denial of God; God’s truths, and Gods One Chuirch, one God, one Faith.

READ this carefully. It was written to Catholics, by Catholics and for Catholics. NO OTHER “CHURCH” existed when this was written.

**Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10: **For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, [Baptized] who have tasted the heavenly gift, [CATHOLIC HOLY COMMUNION] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [CONFIRMED AS A CATHOLIC -your decision!] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [HAD THE BIBLE PROPERLY, FULLY AND TRUTHFULLY EXPLAINED AT MASS] if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.

God Bless,
Pat

God Bless, Pat

There is only one sin in which there is no repentance available for, blaspheming the Holy Spirit and this is not it. If a person genuinely wants to repent of their sin then God will forgive them.

Secondly this was written to the Hebrews and was warning specifically those who had never fully committed themselves to true saving faith in Christ. These verses are the response to Heb 5:11-14. It is like those who have a form of godliness but deny the power there of. They never were what they claimed to be in the first place. Because they never bore fruit and true faith produces fruit.

 

[PRmerger]

It is an interesting question since the the cc and eo split nearly 1000 years ago excommunicating each other (damning each other to hell) why should we beleive either? Which one is the true church if any?

The true church is the one founded by Christ, that can trace its origins from Jesus to the current leader.