Do we as Catholics worship Mary

[guanophore]

Thru him with him and in him in unity with the Holy Spirit all Power and Glory is yours Almighty Father Forever and ever amen. Any one of you are welcome to go to a Roman Catholic Church and you will hear this. Every single mass. Anyone who can say that this Church is saying to worship the Blessed Mother just arent paying attention. You can also go on the catholic television station. Watch the mass. It is there every day. The same mass that we attend. So anyone who says this isnt true go to mass. There is no other proof that the Catholic Religion can give. They say it every day of the week. Just because people dont pay attention, isnt the fault of the Catholic Church. They sure teach it every day.

I think this is part of the anti-Catholic bigotry that is out there, as well as ignorance of the faith. But also, it has become clear to me on this Board that this is part of Mary’s ministry to the Church. Those who oppose her, and what the Church teaches about her, are opposed to the Truth of Christ, because the two cannot be separated from one another. Therefore, when fundamentalists target Mary, she does what was prophesied about her, “through whom the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed”. They demonstrate themselves to be in rebellion against the Teachings. Some of that rebellion is hateful, which I am sure pierces her heart like a sword, because it is not just hatefulness toward her, but toward her Divine Son.

 

[rinnie]

Here is a priceless one for you. Now i never knew this one. just found this out today. Have to check it out on the web, I got the sight but my computer wont download it yet i have someone comming this week to see why not. But this is what i am told Luther whom i believe the protestants believe and follow correct. well guess who his last prayer was to. You guessed it the Blessed Mother. and his last act was confession. And he wore his Augustinian Habit for man years after being excommunicated. Now please dont attack me i will check it out. But if so how many people know this.

 

[brkn1]

I think this is part of the anti-Catholic bigotry that is out there, as well as ignorance of the faith. But also, it has become clear to me on this Board that this is part of Mary’s ministry to the Church. Those who oppose her, and what the Church teaches about her, are opposed to the Truth of Christ, because the two cannot be separated from one another. Therefore, when fundamentalists target Mary, she does what was prophesied about her, “through whom the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed”. They demonstrate themselves to be in rebellion against the Teachings. Some of that rebellion is hateful, which I am sure pierces her heart like a sword, because it is not just hatefulness toward her, but toward her Divine Son.

Mary was truly “blessed among women” to be chosen by God “to be the mother of Our Lord”. She was faithful in her earthly role as the mother of Jesus.
Like every other person that needed to be saved by God, she “rejoiced in God my Saviour”.
She is now in Heaven with all of the other redeemed saints of God. There can be no more physical or mental pain for a saint who is in the presence of the Almighty Father and Our Lord Jesus.
I do not oppose Mary, who is a humble, wonderful and faithful member of the Body of Christ.
I oppose teachings about Mary that go beyond what the Bible says about her. We are warned several times in the Bible: “Neither give heed to fables …” , which I consider any doctrine that can not be supported by God’s word.
I may be “in rebellion against the Teachings”, but at least I’m not in rebellion against God’s Word, which I consider infinitely superior to any of man’s teachings.

 

[c659smith]

Mary was truly “blessed among women” to be chosen by God “to be the mother of Our Lord”. She was faithful in her earthly role as the mother of Jesus.
Like every other person that needed to be saved by God, she “rejoiced in God my Saviour”.
She is now in Heaven with all of the other redeemed saints of God. There can be no more physical or mental pain for a saint who is in the presence of the Almighty Father and Our Lord Jesus.
I do not oppose Mary, who is a humble, wonderful and faithful member of the Body of Christ.
I oppose teachings about Mary that go beyond what the Bible says about her. We are warned several times in the Bible: “Neither give heed to fables …” , which I consider any doctrine that can not be supported by God’s word.
I may be “in rebellion against the Teachings”, but at least I’m not in rebellion against God’s Word, which I consider infinitely superior to any of man’s teachings.

what did the Angel Gabriel say to Mary?

What did Elizabeth , John the Baptist’s mom say to Mary when Mary was with child and she was pregnant with John?

What did the Apostles call Mary?

Why did Jesus give Mary to the Apostle at the cross?

Is Mary favored by God?

I am a little curious as to what you call fables?

 

[c659smith]

Here is a priceless one for you. Now i never knew this one. just found this out today. Have to check it out on the web, I got the sight but my computer wont download it yet i have someone comming this week to see why not. But this is what i am told Luther whom i believe the protestants believe and follow correct. well guess who his last prayer was to. You guessed it the Blessed Mother. and his last act was confession. And he wore his Augustinian Habit for man years after being excommunicated. Now please dont attack me i will check it out. But if so how many people know this.

Luther had great devotion to the Blessed Mother and also

believed in transubstansiation. Eucharist

Lutheran churches go from one side of the road to the other.

I have seen some with statues of the Blessed Mother in their court yards and some with a crucifix.

Ask a Lutheran if they want a rosary and 7 out of ten will grab it.

 

[rinnie]

Luther had great devotion to the Blessed Mother and also

believed in transubstansiation. Eucharist

Lutheran churches go from one side of the road to the other.

I have seen some with statues of the Blessed Mother in their court yards and some with a crucifix.

Ask a Lutheran if they want a rosary and 7 out of ten will grab it.

7 out of ten wow, I didnt realize that. You learn more and more every day, Wonder why there is so many people who have a problem with her then. I guess we will never understand it. But thankyou for telling me that.

 

[brkn1]

what did the Angel Gabriel say to Mary?

What did Elizabeth , John the Baptist’s mom say to Mary when Mary was with child and she was pregnant with John?

What did the Apostles call Mary?

Why did Jesus give Mary to the Apostle at the cross?

Is Mary favored by God?

I am a little curious as to what you call fables?

A fable would be making unnecessary doctrine about anything the Bible does not speak about or give clear examples of. Fables are man-made doctrine from “tradition” or legends.
The Word of God, with the indwelling Holy Spirit’s direction, is sufficient for salvation and the Gospel does not need to be added to by man.
We are told to “…earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” (Jude v.3)

Fables regarding Mary would be:

The Immaculate Conception, which the RCC admits can not be supported biblically. Mary’s rejoicing in God her Saviour contradicts the claim that she was sinless. The exemption the RCC uses to explain the mechanics of her sinlessness is forced and unbiblical.

The Assumption of Mary. Unbiblical.

Mary as Mediatrix. Contradicted by the Bible. There is no other name (or mediator) but Jesus by which we are saved.

 

[Holly3278]

Nope. We venerate Mary and rightly so.

Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Fables regarding Mary would be:

The Immaculate Conception, which the RCC admits can not be supported biblically. Mary’s rejoicing in God her Saviour contradicts the claim that she was sinless. The exemption the RCC uses to explain the mechanics of her sinlessness is forced and unbiblical.
False. God saved Mary from sin at the moment of her conception, which is why she rejoices in God her Saviour. It contradicts nothing since God’s grace saved her just as it saves us, with the exception that he saved Mary at her conception. Luke 1:28 (the correction translation that is) has Gabriel calling her “Full of Grace” She has already recieved pardon from sin, and is therefore “full” of the grace of God.

The Assumption of Mary. Unbiblical.
Again, false. Enoch and Elijah were assumed into heaven (Heb. 11:5, 2 Kgs. 2:11). Also, in Matthew 27:52-53 one can read about saints whose bodies left the grave after the Resurrection of Christ. The early resurrection of these saints anticipated the rising of those who die in faith, all of who will be assumed one day to receive their glorified bodies. Belief in the assumption of Mary is simply the belief that God granted her this gift early, as he appears to have done for others in Matthew 27:52-53.The Scriptures also promise that those who suffer with Christ will be glorified with him (Rom. 8:17) Keep in mind that if Scripture does not record an event, it does not follow that the event did not happen. Scripture does not record Paul or Peter’s journey to Rome, and they were both martyred there while the Bible was still being written. With this in mind, it would be unscriptural and unreasonable to conclude that the dogma of Mary’s Assumption is false because it is not mentioned explicitly in Scripture.
catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0105sbs.asp

Mary as Mediatrix. Contradicted by the Bible. There is no other name (or mediator) but Jesus by which we are saved.

Mary is the Mediatrix, not a mediator. There is a difference and it’s found in the context. A mediator acts alone, Mary as the Mediatrix has to go through Christ. Ephesians 4:29 tells us that you and I are to “impart grace” to others by our words. As members of the body of Christ, we are called to “impart” (or mediate) grace in a variety of ways, including ministries of healing, teaching, and prayer.

The key to a correct understanding of 1 Timothy 2:5 is to see that the one mediator stands “between God and men.” Only Jesus Christ can stand for us before God and gain our salvation and all grace. But what he has gained can be distributed from man to man among the members of his body. What he gives to me, I can, by his power, share with you, and vice versa. In fact, we experience this on a daily basis.

Jesus is the source of grace. As branches abiding in the Vine, we can distribute his grace. Because of his mediation before God on our behalf—because he has gained grace for us and entrusts us with that grace—we are able to impart grace to others.
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0609fea1.asp

 

[rinnie]

You go Goth, You are on the ball today.

 

[justasking4]

Mary is the Mediatrix, not a mediator. There is a difference and it’s found in the context. A mediator acts alone, Mary as the Mediatrix has to go through Christ. Ephesians 4:29 tells us that you and I are to “impart grace” to others by our words. As members of the body of Christ, we are called to “impart” (or mediate) grace in a variety of ways, including ministries of healing, teaching, and prayer.

The key to a correct understanding of 1 Timothy 2:5 is to see that the one mediator stands “between God and men.” Only Jesus Christ can stand for us before God and gain our salvation and all grace. But what he has gained can be distributed from man to man among the members of his body. What he gives to me, I can, by his power, share with you, and vice versa. In fact, we experience this on a daily basis.

Jesus is the source of grace. As branches abiding in the Vine, we can distribute his grace. Because of his mediation before God on our behalf—because he has gained grace for us and entrusts us with that grace—we are able to impart grace to others.
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0609fea1.asp

Are you saying here that a catholic must or can go to Mary first who then goes to Jesus in prayer?

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Are you saying here that a catholic must or can go to Mary first who then goes to Jesus in prayer?

Can, not must, but yes

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Are you saying here that a catholic must or can go to Mary first who then goes to Jesus in prayer?

Can, not must, but yes

Why add another layer on to approach God if you know from scripture that you can have direct access to the Father by the Son? We see this so clearly in Ephesians 2:18 which says:
for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

or Hebrews 4:15-16 –
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

All you need is Christ and no other when you pray. Keep in mind that there are no scriptures that ever exhort you to pray to Mary or any saint with your prayers. Jesus alone is more than sufficent.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

Why add another layer on to approach God if you know from scripture that you can have direct access to the Father by the Son? We see this so clearly in Ephesians 2:18 which says:
for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
Because Jesus loves his mother, and any request we make to him through his mother he will not deny.

or Hebrews 4:15-16 –
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

All you need is Christ and no other when you pray. Keep in mind that there are no scriptures that ever exhort you to pray to Mary or any saint with your prayers. Jesus alone is more than sufficent.

An angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

 

[guanophore]

Are you saying here that a catholic must or can go to Mary first who then goes to Jesus in prayer?

We can all pray to God for each other.

Why add another layer on to approach God if you know from scripture that you can have direct access to the Father by the Son?

It is only a “layer” in your mind, ja4, because you don’t believe in the Communion of saints. Those in heaven already are in the presence of God, and falter no more from any sin. They see as they are seen. Here, we see through a glass darkly. The Saints are in a much better position to intercede for us according to the will of God because they are not hindered as we are.

We see this so clearly in Ephesians 2:18 which says:
for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

or Hebrews 4:15-16 –
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

All you need is Christ and no other when you pray. Keep in mind that there are no scriptures that ever exhort you to pray to Mary or any saint with your prayers. Jesus alone is more than sufficent.

Well, Jesus didn’t think so . He established a Body, then taught us that we all needed one another. He instructed us to pray for one another, that we may be healed. Jesus has ordained that we would access His sufficiency through one another. This “Jesus alone” mentality is not any more biblical than the other Solas.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3440765]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Are you saying here that a catholic must or can go to Mary first who then goes to Jesus in prayer?

guanophore
We can all pray to God for each other.

I would think you would know this by now that there is not one verse in Scripture of a person on earth is exhorted to pray to some human who has died. Not one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Why add another layer on to approach God if you know from scripture that you can have direct access to the Father by the Son?

guanophore
It is only a “layer” in your mind, ja4, because you don’t believe in the Communion of saints.

What is this communion of saints you speak of? If you are saying its the living and the dead that compose the body of Christ then i would accept that. What i don’t accept is some kind of communication between the dead and living. That is something the Scriptures are against.

guanophore
Those in heaven already are in the presence of God, and falter no more from any sin. They see as they are seen.

You have no way of really knowing who is in heaven though. You also don’t know if they might be in purgatory or hell.

Here, we see through a glass darkly. The Saints are in a much better position to intercede for us according to the will of God because they are not hindered as we are.

You don’t know this. You have no way to know if they can hear your thoughts or prayers but you must assume they can. The only One we know with certainity is close to God and can intercede for us is Jesus Who is our Great High Priest who is constantly interceding for us before the Father. Only Jesus has this High Priest role. Not Mary or the saints are ever spoke of having this role.

Originally Posted by justasking4
We see this so clearly in Ephesians 2:18 which says:
for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

or Hebrews 4:15-16 –
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

All you need is Christ and no other when you pray. Keep in mind that there are no scriptures that ever exhort you to pray to Mary or any saint with your prayers. Jesus alone is more than sufficent.

guanophore
Well, Jesus didn’t think so . He established a Body, then taught us that we all needed one another. He instructed us to pray for one another, that we may be healed. Jesus has ordained that we would access His sufficiency through one another. This “Jesus alone” mentality is not any more biblical than the other Solas.

Where did Jesus teach we are to pray to someone who has died?
Where did He teach that you need those who have died and those who died need you?
How do you know the needs of those who died?

 

[justinthemartyr]

I would think you would know this by now that there is not one verse in Scripture of a person on earth is exhorted to pray to some human who has died. Not one.

What is this communion of saints you speak of? If you are saying its the living and the dead that compose the body of Christ then i would accept that. What i don’t accept is some kind of communication between the dead and living. That is something the Scriptures are against.

You have no way of really knowing who is in heaven though. You also don’t know if they might be in purgatory or hell.

You don’t know this. You have no way to know if they can hear your thoughts or prayers but you must assume they can. The only One we know with certainity is close to God and can intercede for us is Jesus Who is our Great High Priest who is constantly interceding for us before the Father. Only Jesus has this High Priest role. Not Mary or the saints are ever spoke of having this role.

Where did Jesus teach we are to pray to someone who has died?
Where did He teach that you need those who have died and those who died need you?
How do you know the needs of those who died?

pray
One entry found.

pray

Main Entry: pray
Pronunciation: \ˈprā\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French prier, praer, preier, from Latin precari, from prec-, prex request, prayer; akin to Old High German frāga question, frāgēn to ask, Sanskrit pṛcchati he asks
Date: 13th century
transitive verb
1 : entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea
2 : to get or bring by praying
intransitive verb
1 : to make a request in a humble manner
2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

You pray to your brethren every time you ask for prayers or every time you pray for someone else in the Body of Christ. Since those who are alive in Heaven are in the Body of Christ, part of the communion of Saints, then that is no different than you asking for prayers from your brethren here on earth. It is through Christ that they can hear our prayers. Jesus spoke with the dead, Moses and Elijah, they were dead right? Yes, they were, yet He spoke with them face to face, which shows they are alive. Their bodies are dead but their souls are alive in heaven. We do as Jesus did, only not face to face.
We do not conjure up the person as done in necromancy, that is an offense. Asking for the prayers of those who are with God and see Him as He is, is not an offense. Even the Saints and angels take our prayers to god as bowls of incense.

 

[Just_Me_Andrew]

Do we as Catholics worship Mary.

In official Catholic Dogma, Catholics don’t worship Mary. Many Protestants are sadly misinformed about the Catholic faith. I would say with them that there are prayers to Mary that can make you wonder e.g. from the prayer recited by Pope Pius XII at the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiori in Rome on the opening of the Marian Year:

"Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus, and our Mother Mary… We adore and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you above every other mere creature from the moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe.

"O, crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O, fragrant lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume. O, conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell.

"O, well beloved of God, hear the ardent cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Bend tenderly, O Mary, over our aching wounds; convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and the oppressed. Comfort the poor and the humble, quench hatreds, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity and protect the Holy Church…

“Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications and, above all, obtain for us that on that day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne, that hymn which is sung today around your altars, You are all beautiful, O Mary. You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people.”

The late Dr.Walter Martin a Protestant Apolegist said about this prayer:

To the contrary, Christ is the author and finisher of faith. Mary is not the “glory and joy and honor of Christians”—Jesus Christ is our glory. In Him is the hope of glory. He is our joy. Christ is the One we honor. Yet it is clear, just from reading this prayer, that titles are conferred upon Mary which belong to God. To “convert the wicked” is the job of the Holy Spirit, who “convicts the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment.” Mary does not give comfort to all Christians. That is the very reason Jesus sent the Holy Spirit—to be our “Comforter.”

In the Catholic Church the faithful say, “Our life, our sweetness and our hope, to thee we cry, poor banished children of Eve.” Even giving Mary her due right, she is not our life—Jesus Christ is our life. She is not the sweetness of our life—Jesus Christ is the sweetness of our life. Mary is not our hope because “Christ in you is the hope of glory.”

The response Mitch Pacwa gave concerning this prayer in his debate with Dr. Walter Martin is: “This is the language of poetry” Seems like very literal poetry to most protestants.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Why do non-catholics think we Catholics worship Mary?

because you do. When you say ten hail Mary’s for every one Our Father (the prayer we are commanded to say) you can call it what you want, but it’s worship. Irenaeus was wrong, Mary is not the New Eve. She is not a prototype for perfect love, only God is perfect. She is not a mediatrix, we only have one mediator. She is not a co-redeemer, we only have one redeemer. No one sees the Father except through Christ, therefore, Mary needed saving just like we do & therefore she was a sinner like the rest of us. She was not a perpetual virgin (she was a virgin when she bore Jesus, but after that all indications are that she bore children). Jesus clearly had siblings.

The blessed mother is indeed worthy of the highest respect. She is blessed among women, but not a fourth member of the trinity? She is not the queen of heaven. A “type” for the church, perhaps (I think this is supportable; but you guys have dug yourselves into a view of Mariology that is too easy to pick apart).

peace,
sola_scriptura

 

[sola_scriptura]

We can all pray to God for each other.

Well, Jesus didn’t think so . He established a Body, then taught us that we all needed one another. He instructed us to pray for one another, that we may be healed. Jesus has ordained that we would access His sufficiency through one another. This “Jesus alone” mentality is not any more biblical than the other Solas.

So you think Paul contradicted Jesus? Paul advocating praying for each other, He never contradicted Jesus … gee wiz?