Do we really have religious freedom?

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Mate what I wrote was meant to be read as a paragraph not as individual sentences hence why it’s not making sense and why it’s easy for you to make bold statements … I don’t think you’ve understood what I’m trying to say when I’m talking about Christianity I’m talking on a global scale not just your town, city or country. If you’ve failed to see the power government has in the religious choices of people you must be living under a rock. Christians are persecuted around the world but you don’t hear about it for some reason it doesn’t make it into the western media. So your living in your town unaware of what is happening to Christians around the world. Secondly being a christian is not just about going to church on a Sunday. Why do you keep mentioning it, there is a lot more to it than that. Your looking at what I’m trying to say with an atheistic view blame the church for everything. One thing your forgetting is that the church on earth is operated by people with the guidance of god this doesn’t mean they won’t make any mistakes. And another thing you have to realize is that if the church was completely run by people it wouldn’t be standing to this day. The fact that there are many denominations has nothing to do with the Catholic church this has to be attributed to individuals and people themselves.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
You’re confusing “religious freedom” with “everybody agreeing with you”. You sound just like those majority Muslim countries you criticize.
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You’ve misinterpreted what I have said in the previous comment you said the fact that gay marriage exists doesn’t affect you and your church life. Well going to church on Sunday is not the only part of being a christian and these policies made with government support should affect you. Think about how god would feel and see the impact on a global scale and not a local one. Also I have nothing against Muslims and admire them for protecting their religion don’t make false statements. All I was saying is that Islamic countries are not as accepting as other religions is there something wrong in stating the obvious?
 
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Tacceus said:
I know the government likes to tell us that we have religious freedom and that we can express our faith. But their actions seem to contradict this statement, governments have gone against a lot of the teachings of the church.
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Freedom of religion doesn’t mean that the government follows our religion. It means that we have the freedom to follow the religion we want to. The government not following your religion does not contradict freedom of religion.
 
angel12 said:
of the church.

Freedom of religion doesn’t mean that the government follows our religion. It means that we have the freedom to follow the religion we want to. The government not following your religion does not contradict freedom of religion.
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I think you have misinterpreted what I have said firstly history lesson most Western Countries where built on christian foundations why has that changed now?
Secondly don’t you see the power which government has on religion they can use things like education like they have done to control the religious population.
Also can’t you see how religious people around the world are being persecuted by the government I’m not just talking about your town, city or country expand your horizon…
 
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And the fact that you are saying it and living your next day much like the one before it should also confirm you are free to dissent/believe more or less. I agree it gets dicey from time to time, downright threatening. Christians do have to keep their mouth shut in the public square probably more than is good for the common good, but we Western Christians are not in Syria, for example, let’s put it that way. Or 1st or 2nd century AD Rome. Quite a few places and times really. Sometimes I think modern ignorance and self-absorption allow the Christian as much room as a desert. A quiet unassuming Christian anyway - you get in a little more trouble when you start trying the beacon of light, helping neighbors stuff.
 
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Don’t do the … thing its condescending

I have to break down your paragraph because you made sweeping generalizations and I wasn’t about to wall of text you back. It was for your ease of response.
 
OP, you seem to be conflating religious freedom with religious imposition. I think people in the US have those two things extremely confused lately. They seem to be thinking religious freedom means “my religion = law of the land” and any allowance of others’ viewpoints in secular society is a threat to their faith. I just don’t get it.
misstherese said:
Yeah there is something going on…it’s like you’re forbid to show your faith. Many are trying to remove the part where it mentions God in the pledge of allegiance, the “In God we trust” on currency, forbidence of prayer in schools, etc.
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Where are we forbidden from showing faith? I haven’t experienced it, and I’m in fairly “liberal” environments. Personally, I’d love to see our Lord’s holy name removed from these government sources…it’s a violation of the 2nd Commandment in my opinion. And if my children were in public schools, I’m not sure I’d want any of the Protestant ministers or church goers that make up 99% of the religiously affiliated neighborhood teaching my Catholic children the “right” way to pray or what to believe. THIS is freedom of religion; not having those fears of what may be imposed upon me for being different.
 
Dave Rubin put it best: the biggest issue here is self-censorship.
Cor_ad_Cor said:
I’m not sure I’d want any of the Protestant ministers or church goers that make up 99% of the religiously affiliated neighborhood teaching my Catholic children the “right” way to pray or what to believe.
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How about LGBTQ activists, the regressive left or Muslims?
Cor_ad_Cor said:
Personally, I’d love to see our Lord’s holy name removed from these government sources…it’s a violation of the 2nd Commandment in my opinion.
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🤣

Just when I thought I’ve heard it all…
 
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Cor_ad_Cor said:
Personally, I’d love to see our Lord’s holy name removed from these government sources…it’s a violation of the 2nd Commandment in my opinion. And if my children were in public schools, I’m not sure I’d want any of the Protestant ministers or church goers that make up 99% of the religiously affiliated neighborhood teaching my Catholic children the “right” way to pray or what to believe. THIS is freedom of religion; not having those fears of what may be imposed upon me for being different.
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Not to sound disrespectful, but this almost sounds like trolling to me. On a Christian website. I do believe this comes from a Catholic though, having said that.
 
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I don’t know if you’re new to posting on the internet, but the Pavlovian response to this is to circle the wagons and pretend that all is well–as well as make excuses that involve twisting the 10 commandments to fit a Western PC cultural mold.

If you’re interested in this, you’ll get more out of listening to Dave Rubin or Jordan B. Peterson than you will any Catholic resource, I’m sorry to say.
 
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SuperLuigi said:
I don’t know if you’re new to posting on the internet, but the Pavlovian response to this is to circle the wagons and pretend that all is well.

If you’re interested in this, you’ll get more out of listening to Dave Rubin or Jordan B. Peterson than you will any Catholic resource, I’m sorry to say.
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Yeah I have just realized just wanted to make a discussion though and see the different views which people have…
 
I recommend everyone pick up Scott Hahn’s new book The First Society. It’s his first book that tries to deal more with the “here and now” than our final destination, and it seems (I’m only at the third chapter) to desire to help the married live out their vocation as perfectly as possible, and thus raise strongly Catholic children who “society will have to contend with” as they will have to contend with the rest of society.

It’s basically about trying to help us take what’s best from every period in human history and apply them today- that would go a long way to ensuring the unhindered religious freedom of all, but particularly ourselves.
 
Not trolling… just frustrated. Posts of this nature, Christian website or not, give non-Christians more reason to ridicule us, in my opinion. My thoughts on such matters often differ from the majority here, though, which is why I tend to stick to the black-and-white areas like liturgy (haha) … or would that be more black-and-red?
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
Not trolling… just frustrated. Posts of this nature, Christian website or not, give non-Christians more reason to ridicule us, in my opinion. My thoughts on such matters often differ from the majority here, though, which is why I tend to stick to the black-and-white areas like liturgy (haha) … or would that be more black-and-red?
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Mate this is a genuine question that many people have misinterpreted, when I mean government I’m not talking about any one country in particular but rather a global perspective on this issue. Just cause you feel you have religious freedom in the USA doesn’t mean the rest of the world is the same or has the same opinion… This is a genuine question we should be asking ourselves going into the future.
 
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What was odd about living in Saudi Arabia with regards to Christianity:

You’re told you have religious freedom, but you cannot wear a cross publicly (I don’t mean a massive crucifix, I mean a tiny one on a necklace) and even in the Diplomatic Quarter, allegedly neutral territory, there are no churches and no outside displays marking a building as a church of any kind - even a sign saying “church” - is prohibited by law and can literally get you thrown in jail. When/if they toss your bags at Customs - if they find a cross, you can be fined and turned around at the border.

You’re told you can practice any religion you want - as long as it’s not public, and as long as you aren’t caught discussing it in public with any Muslim/Saudi citizen (yes, they can be exclusive groups), and if you’re a group of Christians, it’s worse. It’s all punishable under law.

Interesting and slightly unrelated trivia: If you go to Israel, and you get your passport stamped in that country, you can (and most likely will) be barred from reentering Saudi Arabia, even though you have a visa that has not expired that says you live there. You have to get a little chit that you carry around on your person stamped at immigration in Israel. When you are applying for your visa to KSA, they actually ask you if you’ve ever been to Israel, when you went, and is it stamped in your current passport. (With the proliferation of electronic passport features, they may not ask this anymore, but they did in my day. As far as I know, pretty much none of this has changed, based on people we know who still live and/or travel through there frequently.)

That’s what would make the expats privately roll their eyes, as that’s not religious freedom by the definition of most of the rest of the world.

And again - their laws, their nation, their rules. Doesn’t mean we agreed, or did our fair share of casting aspersions.

We also had Jewish friends who were legitimately sent to the Kingdom on business, usually for the oil companies. They of course lied on their entrance visas as to what religion they were (they ask you this on the landing cards and on your applications - and that they still do).

So yes, in the US, we assuredly have religious freedom. I have lived where they don’t.

People can say how terrible the US is, but I thank God for her and our Constitution far less often than I should. (The same goes for the West in general.) Call me what you want. I’m unapologetic when it comes to love of country. We are not perfect, but this is my home, and I’d rather not be anywhere else.

Wanted to add I’ll say democracy in general. Plenty of Asia also has religious freedom. South Korea is a very Christian nation and is actually where I began reexploring my faith.
 
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I do see some who go overboard with the persecution complex. A bit over-dramatized. Benedict Option, all that. My position is that religious freedom exists in America but faces on occasion serious (and unprecedented) threats at this time. We are not being burned on stakes or tarred and feathered. But people do lose their jobs, their livelihood; the Catholic Church is facing legal threats on issues like birth control, abortion, gay marriage, adoption, in terms of how they carry out their work in their organizations and institutions. (this is changing under Trump a little) I don’t think it is unreasonable to call this anti-Catholicism or hostility to Christianity - though undeniably Catholics have had much harder times in the US. I don’t think references to God should be removed from public life. More far-reaching is secular characterization of Catholic teaching on social issues as ‘hate speech’ not welcome in mainstream culture. A sort of public shaming. I would hope all Catholics would acknowledge this is happening, at the same time recognizing the truly horrific slaughter - Christian martyrdom in other parts of the world, which in the last two centuries has reached an all time high - surpassed the first 2000 years of Christianity, crusades, Reformation, Spanish Inquisition, and all. At the other extreme from the persecution complex are those for whom Catholicism doesn’t seem to involve much more than being a Taurus or an Aries these days, except for being nicer maybe, more open. In fact I would put about 60% of the Church there, at all levels.
 
Tacceus said:
think you have misinterpreted what I have said firstly history lesson most Western Countries where built on christian foundations why has that changed now?

Secondly don’t you see the power which government has on religion they can use things like education like they have done to control the religious population.

Also can’t you see how religious people around the world are being persecuted by the government I’m not just talking about your town, city or country expand your horizon…
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No, I did not misinterpret what you said. You’re trying to tie personal religious freedom to governments following the precepts of a particular religion. Those are two separate issues.
And don’t try to tell me where my horizons are, because you obviously have no clue.
 
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