Do we really have religious freedom?

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Pup7 said:
You’re told you have religious freedom, but you cannot…
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The reason one big government loyalists pull this out is because it works.

“I believe in free speech, but”

“I think people should have guns, but”
 
I was talking about Saudi Arabia, actually. We had Saudis tell us we had religious freedom while in the Kingdom - but their laws said otherwise.
 
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Yeah, I agree. But that’s what big government activists do.
Usagi said:
When it comes to America and the West, you do seem to be arguing for Christian dominance rather than religious freedom for everyone. That is a more contentious issue and so draws more replies.
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:roll_eyes:

No one is talking about Christian dominance. Christianity is under attack all over the West thanks a concept known as tyranny of the minority.
’
 
Pup7 said:
You’re told you have religious freedom, but you cannot wear a cross publicly (I don’t mean a massive crucifix, I mean a tiny one on a necklace) and even in the Diplomatic Quarter, allegedly neutral territory, there are no churches and no outside displays marking a building as a church of any kind - even a sign saying “church” - is prohibited by law and can literally get you thrown in jail. When/if they toss your bags at Customs - if they find a cross, you can be fined and turned around at the border.
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What’s happening, I think, is a lot of people (on the left and atheist) are pushing the idea of “Freedom of Worship” vs “Freedom of Religion.”

They are NOT the same thing.

Freedom of Worship means that you are allowed to go to your place of worship but you must keep your religion out of the public square.

Freedom of Religion means you can attend your worship AND engage in your religion in the public square.

As we become more and more pluralistic societies, some people are self-censoring and/or looking out for the minority to extreams.

It’s important to make sure minorities are not oppressed, but it’s not ok to oppress the majority to make the minority feel powerful.

What’s happening I think today is the Christian West (mainly thanks to Communism, socialism, liberalism, the World Wars and Imperialism) has divorced mercy from truth… aka Relativism.

Many people (for whatever reason) embrace Relativism and when they do, they want to force it on society. They want live “their truth” without having to be affected by “your truth.”
 
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SuperLuigi said:
No one is talking about Christian dominance. Christianity is under attack all over the West thanks a concept known as tyranny of the minority.
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Why is it when the privileged get a taste of the medicine they dish out they go into full victim mode?

Maybe if the majority spent less time collectively stomping the boot heel into peoples faces they wouldnt feel the push back meant to stop it from happening?

Just a concept.
 
I don’t think gay marriage or abortion being legal is an attack on religious freedom. Attacks on Christian values and religious freedom are different, to be quite honest. It’s the aftermath that would affect us. Such as being forced to advise abortions, hand out contraceptives, provide services to gay weddings etc that would affect our religious freedom.
 
Lea101 said:
I don’t think gay marriage or abortion being legal is an attack on religious freedom. Attacks on Christian values and religious freedom are different, to be quite honest. It’s the aftermath that would affect us. Such as being forced to advise abortions, hand out contraceptives, provide services to gay weddings etc that would affect our religious freedom.
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I partially agree, but the saddest thing is that the countries that are most legal on Abortion and Gay marriage are the Western countries, with christian majority populations. The countries that are most restrictive or where it is illegal to do these things are the developing countries that have low christian populations. Disappointed that the people nor government from the Western countries could do anything to prevent this… Hence why I made this forum it’s about questioning whether or not we really have religious freedom: religious views/ freedoms go hand in hand because as you keep attacking peoples religious views your also slowly taking away there religious freedom and we don’t know where this could end, current policies indirectly effect us future policies may directly affect us…
 
Again - that was in the KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA. Not in the United States, not in the West. Not in Europe.

I was living in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. My husband, a Brit, was working in the Kingdom at the time, and I lived there for three years. It was a mess and sometimes it was downright scary.

How is that getting left out of every quote? And I’m sort of chuckling as I say that.
 
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Yeah, I know. I wasn’t really replying to your post (your post just gave me an idea)
 
I hope that’s everyone’s thought.

But it’s nice to know I’m thought provoking. I think. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
The concept of religious freedom to me is whether people have the freedom to practise their religions (not just Christianity). So tbh I don’t find the attack on Christian values itself (eg legalizing abortion) is an attack on our freedom as we are not forced to have abortions. Same with gay marriage and such. It would be restricting our freedom if we are forced to teach it as morally neutral, if we are forced to tell patients that it’s an option they can have and so on. This is obviously happening, and I see that as infringing on our freedom because we can’t practice our religion if we are made to support stuff like that. But the legalization of abortion itself wouldn’t be an attack on religious freedom. Just the aftermath. So if we are looking at religious freedom itself, we would be looking for our right to deny services if it goes against our religion without getting sued or anything. The presence of these services itself is not preventing us to practice Catholicism or not. I’m not American so I may be wrong but I think that’s what the executive order Trump signed was about?
 
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