Do we vote for the lesser of two evils?

[tqualey]

Hi, Jeditiz,

Mr. Johnson has already endorsed an immoral position that is inherently disordred. But, he is not the only one running for the Office of US President.

Here is a link to at least some of the other Candidates running for President in 2012. There should be an item to find out if these candidates will appear on the ballot in your state… but, I do not know how to find that out.

God bless

Gary Johnson, the 3rd party candidate, supports so called “marriage equality” and then says the government shouldn’t define marriage. Could not find anything regarding life issues on his comparison of the candidates page. I could not in good faith vote for a 3rd party candidate, especially one that can’t even state stances on the important life issues: abortion, stem cell reseach and euthanasia.

Do I need to remind people that the current occupant of the white house increased funding for EMBRYO DESTRUCTIVE research with OUR TAX $??? Research that has not produced ANY RESULTS?

 

[ProVobis]

there will be millions more unborn children murdered

About 1.2 million/yr if the current trend continues, regardless of who the President is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

 

[Seeker1961]

About 1.2 million/yr if the current trend continues, regardless of who the President is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

What??? You mean abortion still exists when the GOP is in control???

Sure is going to be a shock to some who post here…

 

[tqualey]

Hi, George Stegmeir,

I think your first paragraph is mostly correct. What is being addressed is the difference between formal and material cooperation with evil. The way that Obama has wrapped himself in the promotion of abortion contrasted with the way the Catholic Church has condemned abortion - in my opinion, I do not know how a Catholic in good conscience could vote for Obama.

The idea that voting one’s conscience for a 3rd Party Candidate would be a mortal sin is just not supported by any source I know of - but, I don’t know them all… so, how about a link that backs up your position? While no one in the Democratic Party mounted a challenge to Obama - the Republicans had to fight hard to get started in Iowa and New Hampshire - and the other states - all of those candidates not getting the votes and then not getting the $$$. Ultimately, people can run as a 3rd Party Candidate, others can fund their campaign and others can vote for them - and all doing so in good conscious.

I think it was Bismark who compared politics with how sausage is made - and that most people do not want to know about either. Yes, politics is a lot more then smiles and glad handshakes and back patting. It is a serious contact sport…played without protective equipment.

God bless

If any of you go to an “examination of Conscience” site, you will find listed amongst the Mortal Sins “Voting for a pro-abortion andidate/politician”. This is not an opinion, but fact!
I will expound further on that fact: doing anything that gets a pro-abortion candidate elected is also a Mortal Sin. That would also include voting for a 3rd party candidate which would syphon off votes from a pro-life candidate.
For any of you who are capable of doing political research, I suggest you find out who is financing 3rd party candidates in the forthcoming Presidential election. I’ll bet you that a lot of the financing is coming from wealthy individuals who jointly are financing the Democratic party or Obama’s campaign. Unfortunately, many of these candidates are so-called pro-lifers who will accept contributions from anyone who can keep them in the race and never consider the consequences.
That is the nasty face of politics.

 

[tqualey]

Hang on their Traditionalism,

Do you really think you would have had the computer access - or even computers at all - if the “Three acres and a cow” logic was applied?

Unrestrained capitalism, as was previously pointed out, is the problem - not capitalism itself. Contrast this with atheistic communism which is condemned out-right. (The type of ‘communism’ practiced by the early Church in Acts, and in religious communities.)

God bless

The promotion of Capitalism goes against it too. “Three acres and a cow” is what we need, it’s the Catholic way. Wait for America’s falling, so Monarchies can come back.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Seeker,

I do not know if you are being serious or cynical - but, try this: since Roe v Wade (1973) abortion has been legal in this country. There have been many efforts to stop or retard this senseless killing of innocent human life - but, nothing has made it illegal.

Given how our democracy works - the Supreme Court decided that abortion was acceptable and the only way to reverse this is to either have a constitutional amendment or the Court reverses itself with another case decision.

So, no matter who is elected President, this - by itself - will not change the legality of abortion. What can change if Obama is voted out of office is the pro-abortion policies, executive orders and tax payer funding. So, if it is an ‘existence’ issue - nothing will happen when the President (whoever he is) takes office in January 2013. If it is a ‘promotion’ issue, then I think everyone will see a tremendous change.

This is a real issue and we have the strength to make a difference - not only a political change but one where real lives can be saved! Someone remarked that abortions would continue if Romney was elected - and, really that is true. But, if the sheer numbers of abortions are reduced I think this would be a moral victory as we push towards a clulture of life rather then a culture of death. We can use our time to ridicule our own efforts as being ineffective or we can acknowledge that the only reason that evil succeeds is that good people chose to do nothing. Control what you can.

God bless

What??? You mean abortion still exists when the GOP is in control???

Sure is going to be a shock to some who post here…

 

[Seeker1961]

Hi, Seeker,

I do not know if you are being serious or cynical - but, try this: since Roe v Wade (1973) abortion has been legal in this country. There have been many efforts to stop or retard this senseless killing of innocent human life - but, nothing has made it illegal.

Given how our democracy works - the Supreme Court decided that abortion was acceptable and the only way to reverse this is to either have a constitutional amendment or the Court reverses itself with another case decision.

So, no matter who is elected President, this - by itself - will not change the legality of abortion. What can change if Obama is voted out of office is the pro-abortion policies, executive orders and tax payer funding. So, if it is an ‘existence’ issue - nothing will happen when the President (whoever he is) takes office in January 2013. If it is a ‘promotion’ issue, then I think everyone will see a tremendous change.

This is a real issue and we have the strength to make a difference - not only a political change but one where real lives can be saved! Someone remarked that abortions would continue if Romney was elected - and, really that is true. But, if the sheer numbers of abortions are reduced I think this would be a moral victory as we push towards a clulture of life rather then a culture of death. We can use our time to ridicule our own efforts as being ineffective or we can acknowledge that the only reason that evil succeeds is that good people chose to do nothing. Control what you can.

God bless

I’ve just been reading a few too many posts that seem to think abortion magically vanishes under Republican power and it only exists under Democrats. Both parties NEED the abortion issue to continue to exist because It fires up both bases and brings people to the polls, thus keeping them in those lovely jobs with that great health care plan.

After all these years, it is clear to me that ONLY true solution to the abortion problem is to eliminate the desire of anyone to procure one. And the only way to do that is through education on life issues (such as Theology of the Body which we are doing in our parish) and leading people to Christ so He can change their lives. That will bring about true and lasting reduction and even elimination of abortion and a few other things we continue to wait for politicians or the court system to fix.

It’s not going to happen at the ballot box and it’s not going to happen in the courthouse and the moment we stop waiting for someone else to fix it and take the responsibility ourselves is when we will see true movement.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Let’s keep it simple and just respond to this:

The Church clearly tells us that we have an obligation to repudiate evil, the Chruch clearly tells us that we must work to make the destruction of innocent life a priorty - above all other issues, and the Church tells we are to do good and avoid evil.

1. The Church teaches that we must repudiate evil, but it does not specify in doctrine the ways in which we must live out this principle. For instance it does not say we must repudiate evil at every opportunity. Not even you believe that. Although you clearly have in mind one particular way in which you would like everyone to repudiate evil. The decision as to the details of how we live out that command is one that is made by the prudential judgement of the faithful.
2. The Church does not teach that we must make the destruction of innocent life a priority above all others. If we believed that then we would do nothing else all day long. I’ll bet there are times of the day when you are doing something besides working to oppose the destruction of innocent life. Do you ever play golf? Go shopping? Travel for fun? It seems that sometimes you place personal enjoyment at a higher priority than defending innocent life.

 

[ProVobis]

But, if the sheer numbers of abortions are reduced I think this would be a moral victory as we push towards a clulture of life rather then a culture of death. We can use our time to ridicule our own efforts as being ineffective or we can acknowledge that the only reason that evil succeeds is that good people chose to do nothing. Control what you can.

I see what you’re saying but when one considers the source of abortions, and who’s voting for whom, it seems it will require a bipartisan effort to fix it.

---

WHO HAS ABORTIONS?
•In 2008, 84.3% of all abortions were performed on unmarried women (CDC).
•Women living with a partner to whom they are not married account for 25% of abortions but only about 10% of women in the population (NAF).
•Women between the ages of 20-24 obtained 33% of all abortions in 2008; women between 25-29 obtained 24% (CDC).
•In 2008, women aged 20-29 years had the highest abortion rates (29.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 20-24 years and 21.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 25-29 years) (CDC).
•50% of U.S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25; women aged 20-24 obtain 33% of all U.S. abortions and teenagers obtain 17% (AGI).
•In 2008, adolescents under 15 years obtained .05% of all abortions, but had the highest abortion ratio, 821 abortions for every 1,000 live births (CDC).
•47% of women who have abortions had at least one previous abortion (AGI).
•Black women are more than 4.8 times more likely than non-Hispanic white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are 2.7 times as likely (AGI).
•The abortion rate of non-metropolitan women is about half that of women who live in metropolitan counties (NAF).
•The abortion rate of women with Medicaid coverage is three times as high as that of other women (NAF).
•37% of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 28% identify themselves as Catholic (AGI).
•At current rates, nearly one-third of American women will have an abortion (AGI).

…

WHY ARE ABORTIONS PERFORMED?
•On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).
•Only 12% of women included a physical problem with their health among reasons for having an abortion (NAF).
•One per cent (of aborting women) reported that they were the survivors of rape (NAF).

abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/​

So how does our 2-party political system fix this? I don’t think one party can.

 

[ProVobis]

After all these years, it is clear to me that ONLY true solution to the abortion problem is to eliminate the desire of anyone to procure one. And the only way to do that is through education on life issues (such as Theology of the Body which we are doing in our parish) and leading people to Christ so He can change their lives. That will bring about true and lasting reduction and even elimination of abortion and a few other things we continue to wait for politicians or the court system to fix.

It’s not going to happen at the ballot box and it’s not going to happen in the courthouse and the moment we stop waiting for someone else to fix it and take the responsibility ourselves is when we will see true movement.

Good constructive post.

 

[rlg94086]

I’ve just been reading a few too many posts that seem to think abortion magically vanishes under Republican power and it only exists under Democrats. Both parties NEED the abortion issue to continue to exist because It fires up both bases and brings people to the polls, thus keeping them in those lovely jobs with that great health care plan.

After all these years, it is clear to me that ONLY true solution to the abortion problem is to eliminate the desire of anyone to procure one. And the only way to do that is through education on life issues (such as Theology of the Body which we are doing in our parish) and leading people to Christ so He can change their lives. That will bring about true and lasting reduction and even elimination of abortion and a few other things we continue to wait for politicians or the court system to fix.

It’s not going to happen at the ballot box and it’s not going to happen in the courthouse and the moment we stop waiting for someone else to fix it and take the responsibility ourselves is when we will see true movement.

There is absolutely no reason that abortion should remain legal. That said, we also need to educate people on life issues. It isn’t an either/or; it’s both.

Can you imagine your argument used with any other grave evils? Slavery? Genocide? Murder?

The ONLY true solution to the murder problem is to eliminate the desire of anyone to commit one. And the only way to do that is through education on life issues and leading people to Christ so He can change their lives. That will bring about true and lasting reduction and even elimination of murder…

Mmmkay…but murder should still be illegal.

 

[Seeker1961]

There is absolutely no reason that abortion should remain legal. That said, we also need to educate people on life issues. It isn’t an either/or; it’s both.

Can you imagine your argument used with any other grave evils? Slavery? Genocide? Murder?

The ONLY true solution to the murder problem is to eliminate the desire of anyone to commit one. And the only way to do that is through education on life issues and leading people to Christ so He can change their lives. That will bring about true and lasting reduction and even elimination of murder…

Mmmkay…but murder should still be illegal.

So you believe that government has more power and is a greater force for good than the power of God to change lives?

I believed for a long time that the politicians were telling the truth and that they were actually going to make ending abortion a priority, but I don’t anymore. Good grief, Romney’s own sister said he has no intention of banning abortion! (Boston globe and others). If you’re voting for him because of that, prepare to be disappointed and be prepared to fight the same fight over and over for 30 more years.

Believe what you choose, but I’m not kidding myself anymore and I’m not waiting for a government to do what Jesus said was our job. I believe the only force that is going to bring about real positive change is God working through ordinary people from the ground up.

 

[Traditionalism]

Tell Barack H. Obama that he isn’t a monarch.

I’m not voting for Obama either. I’m a Monarchist and Distributist, Obama and Romney are both pawns of the same handlers.

Hang on their Traditionalism,

Do you really think you would have had the computer access - or even computers at all - if the “Three acres and a cow” logic was applied?

Unrestrained capitalism, as was previously pointed out, is the problem - not capitalism itself. Contrast this with atheistic communism which is condemned out-right. (The type of ‘communism’ practiced by the early Church in Acts, and in religious communities.)

God bless

You don’t know what Distributism is, do you? Distributism wouldn’t block anyone from having a computer at all. I suggest you seriously read up on what Distributism is.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

You don’t know what Distributism is, do you? Distributism wouldn’t block anyone from having a computer at all. I suggest you seriously read up on what Distributism is.

Interesting. Reminds me a great deal of Southern Agrarianism.

 

[Seeker1961]

I’m not voting for Obama either. I’m a Monarchist and Distributist, Obama and Romney are both pawns of the same handlers.

You don’t know what Distributism is, do you? Distributism wouldn’t block anyone from having a computer at all. I suggest you seriously read up on what Distributism is.

I agree that Obama and Romney are pawns of the same handlers…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree that Obama and Romney are pawns of the same handlers…

Not even close. You think George Soros owns Romney?



So did Mitt Romney hang with terrorists (Bill Ayers) and have a very well-known (to the FBI) Communist as a mentor? Hmmmm, I missed that part of his biography.

Let’s see both of their passports, on the table, right now. I think it would be quite elucidating, don’t you?

 

[Seeker1961]

Not even close. You think George Soros owns Romney?



So did Mitt Romney hang with terrorists (Bill Ayers) and have a very well-known (to the FBI) Communist as a mentor? Hmmmm, I missed that part of his biography.

Let’s see both of their passports, on the table, right now. I think it would be quite elucidating, don’t you?

Someone else with money owns Romney but they are both bought and paid for by people who will be expecting to get something for their investments.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Someone else with money owns Romney but they are both bought and paid for by people who will be expecting to get something for their investments.

But not Communists, Black Liberation theologists, and terrorists. And Soros is one of the most evil beings on this earth at present.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

But not Communists, Black Liberation theologists, and terrorists. And Soros is one of the most evil beings on this earth at present.

What sort of terrorists? And, is there even a Communist Party left? What has Soros done to incur your displeasure? What is a theologist? You throw out references to parties without any explanations, Juliane. You’d have more cred with some evidence.

 

[oldcelt]

But not Communists, Black Liberation theologists, and terrorists. And Soros is one of the most evil beings on this earth at present.

Wow…curious that you have the ability to declare evil…BTW who were you calling a communist?

John