L
Luigi_Daniele
Guest
That’s better
(A quoted post with no content indicates agreement).Absolutely right!
- Status
(A quoted post with no content indicates agreement).Absolutely right!
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, TTM,
I do not recall Romney comparing himself to Lincoln. Do you have a reference on this?
Actually, that was the least troubling aspect of your post. I think you have touch on some areas that need serious attention.
Even the most casual look around will identified real countries with real dictators. Maybe I have slighted one or two … but, there is no evidence of any of thise guys demonstrating genuine benevolence. The latest one to make the news was the ‘president’ of Gambia agreeing to free 2 Americans (thanks to the efforts of Rev Jessi Jackson - here is a link: rainbowpush.org/news/single/gambia_president_yayha_jammeh_releases_american_captives_after_meeting_with Of course, Americans are to travel (except to N. Korea and Cuba) and find a dictatorship that would conform to what you are describing. Any suggestions as to where we should look?
This quote “When the time comes when we can make a real strike at abortion, not just a symbolic one then I will vote for that candidate no matter what the cost” is not clear to me - and I would appreciate to providing a bit more informaiton.
If this imagined ‘time’ has not yet arrived to vote out of office the Abortion-Promoter-in-Chief, then what are we looking for? The election is 46 days from now.
What quaifies as a ‘real strike’? There have been numerous efforts throughout the US to change state law concerning unlimited abortions - any time for any reason. And, these have been rolled back Here is an interestng link: policymic.com/articles/15084/election-2012-abortion-watch-the-state-of-abortion-in-all-50-states. I would say real strikes have been made - but there is a lot of difficulty when pro-abortionists are appointed to the Federal Bench. Voting Obama out of office would put an end to that. Or, do you think Obama would change the type of appointments he makes?
With all due respect - those complaints you have lodged are not going to count on electon day - when only ballots matter. So, where do you stand - with the rhetoric you produced on this thread, or with some serious action to go and vote your conscience.
God bless
I do not recall Romney comparing himself to Lincoln. Do you have a reference on this?
Actually, that was the least troubling aspect of your post. I think you have touch on some areas that need serious attention.
Even the most casual look around will identified real countries with real dictators. Maybe I have slighted one or two … but, there is no evidence of any of thise guys demonstrating genuine benevolence. The latest one to make the news was the ‘president’ of Gambia agreeing to free 2 Americans (thanks to the efforts of Rev Jessi Jackson - here is a link: rainbowpush.org/news/single/gambia_president_yayha_jammeh_releases_american_captives_after_meeting_with Of course, Americans are to travel (except to N. Korea and Cuba) and find a dictatorship that would conform to what you are describing. Any suggestions as to where we should look?
This quote “When the time comes when we can make a real strike at abortion, not just a symbolic one then I will vote for that candidate no matter what the cost” is not clear to me - and I would appreciate to providing a bit more informaiton.
If this imagined ‘time’ has not yet arrived to vote out of office the Abortion-Promoter-in-Chief, then what are we looking for? The election is 46 days from now.
What quaifies as a ‘real strike’? There have been numerous efforts throughout the US to change state law concerning unlimited abortions - any time for any reason. And, these have been rolled back Here is an interestng link: policymic.com/articles/15084/election-2012-abortion-watch-the-state-of-abortion-in-all-50-states. I would say real strikes have been made - but there is a lot of difficulty when pro-abortionists are appointed to the Federal Bench. Voting Obama out of office would put an end to that. Or, do you think Obama would change the type of appointments he makes?
With all due respect - those complaints you have lodged are not going to count on electon day - when only ballots matter. So, where do you stand - with the rhetoric you produced on this thread, or with some serious action to go and vote your conscience.
God bless
J
je333
Guest
Good Lord! To pray for someone’s misfortune is an imprecatory prayer. It is malicious and Unchristian. Why not focus on praying for someone who you like to be elected which I will certainly do that God will enlighten/awaken/purify the mind-body-spirit of both of our political and religious leaders to be guided and lead according to God’s will not ours. I will also pray that God will bless us with the graces we need to put all our trusts and faith only to Jesus Christ and not to our political leaders/parties/government.
There are so many evil that I am against at that the government permits like Capitalism – how people can just make an unlimited amount of money at the cost of the deterioration and detrimental health of the people and the environment - oceans, forests, air water, etc…, (OIL INDUSTRY, PORN INDUSTRY, FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS, PHARMACEUTICAL, GUNS)… If guns were illegal, at least, all these massacres in schools and movie theaters would have been prevented, right? Or would they have been prevented if they really want to kill? We have no control of the evilness that people will do. We have no control of the women’s conscience of what they go thru before making very difficult decisions. There are however ways of preventing them but we must know the roots of the problems are, the right questions to ask like, why are there so many abortions? What is the demographics of the people that practice abortions? What issues in our society affect and influence womens decision to abort? If we have the correct informations and statistics then that’s when you begin to find real solutions to solve this issue rather than going thru political gymnastics that won’t lead you anywhere. And if all things fail, all we can do is to ask God to fight all these battles for us. Good always prevails over evil!
God Bless,
je333
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Je333,
I must admit, your post was quite unique - at least for me … that I had to read it a couple of times to make sure I understood just what you were saying. So, let’s get very serious for just a moment.
Praying that our current President is not re-elected is not to pray for him to have some type of misfortune or praying that some harm comes to Obama. This is a total distortion of reality. Apparently, then all the people who are working that our current POTUS is out of office in January - are also ‘malicious and Unchristian’ (sic).
I have focused my attentions and ernergies to voting for Romney - but, many have taken the step to point out that the man is not a saint - in fact, is a Mormon - and, because he is so truly flawed, they have chosen to sit and home and not vote. There are others who seem to think it is the teaching of the Catholic Church too take a stand by voting against the most evil and murderous President that this country has ever had. Finally, there are those who think that because Romney favors abortion in certain cases (as opposed to Obama who never met an idea for terminating an unborn life he did not like) that this is a solid reason for not voting at all. And, it is this sinister form of cynial behavior (I’m not going to vote because ‘my candidate’ isn’t running) that has been such an outstanding position on this thread.
Someone pointed out that VP Biden is a ‘Catholic’ - he has publicly voted for abortion bill after bill when he was a senator, and now as VP he can pose for pictures on Ash Wednesday (like he has done for the past 3 years) with soot smeared on his forehead - like this means something. I gather the person who thinks Biden is a Catholic wants to vote for him (and his running mate Obama) for this reason… but, I would think being a practicing Catholic and not in trouble with one’s Bishop wold mean something.rather then what his parents did when he was an infant.
I have yet to hear of anyone claim - much less even hint - thay they have put their faith in politics or politicians over Christ. God gave us minds and free will - and we are to use these gifts to bring about His Kingdom - to do good and avoid evil. The idea is for us to be practical in the 46 days we have before our country will make a choice of leaders.
There are serious problems with the abuses of Capitalism - no doubt about it. I would be interested in knowing just what you propose we change to as the economic vehicle to run our country. For example, I am not aware of any greedy capitalists in North Korea - do you think this would be a good model for us to try and model? How about China which is not as myopic as NK … but, maybe that is because it has been flirting with capitalism. Cuba may be another country to look at and see if their approach is superior to capitalism.
And, while you are looking for a model - consider this - no other country gives money to other nations for the development of infrastructure, for feedng their hungry and sheltering their homeless. (Notwithstanding all of the bailouts - I really think that all of Europe would be considered as ‘capitalist’ and therefore ineligible for consideration.)
In your apparent sympathy for the ‘women (who make the) difficult decision (to abort)’ I did not read one word about the females who are torn limb from limb, having their skulls crushed and their mangled bodies sucked through a vacuum and their remains winding up in a landfill somewhee. Not one word. Odd. Unborn males suffer the same fate from the abortionist - but since your focus was on females, I a willing to work with you on this. Very few countries execute their condemned criminals in such a manner. But, you know - instead of abortion - we could be promoting adoption (admittedly this is something Planned Parenthood - a really big financial contributer to the re-electon of our current President - does not support. But, what the heck - it is hard to get all emotional over this once target for abortion being the joy of someone else’s life.
Finally, your reliance on data to make the decision for you totally misses the mark. Roe v Wade effectively became the law of the land in 1973. Since that time an estimated 55,000,000 abortions have taken place in the US (here is a link: numberofabortions.com/) And, just to make this a more meaningful number - this is the entire population of California and New York combined simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population So, just what kind of statistics are you looking for?
Yes, asking God for help has to be our first response to evil. But, like the saints who refused to worship the Emperor - we need to take the courageous step and vote Obama out of office
God bless
I must admit, your post was quite unique - at least for me … that I had to read it a couple of times to make sure I understood just what you were saying. So, let’s get very serious for just a moment.
Praying that our current President is not re-elected is not to pray for him to have some type of misfortune or praying that some harm comes to Obama. This is a total distortion of reality. Apparently, then all the people who are working that our current POTUS is out of office in January - are also ‘malicious and Unchristian’ (sic).
I have focused my attentions and ernergies to voting for Romney - but, many have taken the step to point out that the man is not a saint - in fact, is a Mormon - and, because he is so truly flawed, they have chosen to sit and home and not vote. There are others who seem to think it is the teaching of the Catholic Church too take a stand by voting against the most evil and murderous President that this country has ever had. Finally, there are those who think that because Romney favors abortion in certain cases (as opposed to Obama who never met an idea for terminating an unborn life he did not like) that this is a solid reason for not voting at all. And, it is this sinister form of cynial behavior (I’m not going to vote because ‘my candidate’ isn’t running) that has been such an outstanding position on this thread.
Someone pointed out that VP Biden is a ‘Catholic’ - he has publicly voted for abortion bill after bill when he was a senator, and now as VP he can pose for pictures on Ash Wednesday (like he has done for the past 3 years) with soot smeared on his forehead - like this means something. I gather the person who thinks Biden is a Catholic wants to vote for him (and his running mate Obama) for this reason… but, I would think being a practicing Catholic and not in trouble with one’s Bishop wold mean something.rather then what his parents did when he was an infant.
I have yet to hear of anyone claim - much less even hint - thay they have put their faith in politics or politicians over Christ. God gave us minds and free will - and we are to use these gifts to bring about His Kingdom - to do good and avoid evil. The idea is for us to be practical in the 46 days we have before our country will make a choice of leaders.
There are serious problems with the abuses of Capitalism - no doubt about it. I would be interested in knowing just what you propose we change to as the economic vehicle to run our country. For example, I am not aware of any greedy capitalists in North Korea - do you think this would be a good model for us to try and model? How about China which is not as myopic as NK … but, maybe that is because it has been flirting with capitalism. Cuba may be another country to look at and see if their approach is superior to capitalism.
And, while you are looking for a model - consider this - no other country gives money to other nations for the development of infrastructure, for feedng their hungry and sheltering their homeless. (Notwithstanding all of the bailouts - I really think that all of Europe would be considered as ‘capitalist’ and therefore ineligible for consideration.)
In your apparent sympathy for the ‘women (who make the) difficult decision (to abort)’ I did not read one word about the females who are torn limb from limb, having their skulls crushed and their mangled bodies sucked through a vacuum and their remains winding up in a landfill somewhee. Not one word. Odd. Unborn males suffer the same fate from the abortionist - but since your focus was on females, I a willing to work with you on this. Very few countries execute their condemned criminals in such a manner. But, you know - instead of abortion - we could be promoting adoption (admittedly this is something Planned Parenthood - a really big financial contributer to the re-electon of our current President - does not support. But, what the heck - it is hard to get all emotional over this once target for abortion being the joy of someone else’s life.
Finally, your reliance on data to make the decision for you totally misses the mark. Roe v Wade effectively became the law of the land in 1973. Since that time an estimated 55,000,000 abortions have taken place in the US (here is a link: numberofabortions.com/) And, just to make this a more meaningful number - this is the entire population of California and New York combined simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population So, just what kind of statistics are you looking for?
Yes, asking God for help has to be our first response to evil. But, like the saints who refused to worship the Emperor - we need to take the courageous step and vote Obama out of office
God bless
D
Dan_Daly
Guest
By that logic, I don’t see how one could vote for Romney either:
-He supports aborition, including tax payer funding of abortion in Romneycare.
-He supports sodomy, having issued same-sex “marriage” licenses in MA and promoted “gay proms.”
-He has repressed the Catholic faith, by mandating Catholic hospitals in MA provide contraceptives and abortifacients.
In other words, all of the things we are afraid that Obama might do…Romney has already done.
If you compare the talking points, Romney does sound much better. If you compare the reality of their records, there really isn’t much difference at all. Romney is probably more likely to get us into a war with Iran.
I won’t be voting for either the President or Mr. Romney.
T
tqualey
Guest
Hi, Dan Daly,
With so many making an open proclamation that they will not vote - I am wonderinng if any think that there will be no one taking the Oath of Office in Washington on January 20.
Probably not - so - what is being said is that when it comes to making a moral decison, we will let those who vote have their way. But those of us who have disdained the work of choosing will somehow be praised in the throats of men for inactivity. As I see it, this may make some kind of sense if you were packing your bags to move to another country for 4 years … but, if you are staying - take a good look at the government you will be workig under.
In my view, there is nothing moral about sitting on one’s hands when there is work to be done.
God bless
With so many making an open proclamation that they will not vote - I am wonderinng if any think that there will be no one taking the Oath of Office in Washington on January 20.
Probably not - so - what is being said is that when it comes to making a moral decison, we will let those who vote have their way. But those of us who have disdained the work of choosing will somehow be praised in the throats of men for inactivity. As I see it, this may make some kind of sense if you were packing your bags to move to another country for 4 years … but, if you are staying - take a good look at the government you will be workig under.
In my view, there is nothing moral about sitting on one’s hands when there is work to be done.
God bless
D
Dan_Daly
Guest
Greetings,
I would say that not voting is not the same thing as “sitting on one’s hands” or doing nothing. We have a duty to be engaged in public life. Casting a ballot is not the only means of being engaged.
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t think someone will be sworn in as President, and barring any extermely strange turn of events, that person will either be President Obama or Mr. Romney. So?
Say your business was hiring a new manager and had narrowed the field of canidates down to two applicants.
Applicant A has a long history of deception and support of intrinsic evil.
Applicant B has a long history of deception and support of intrinsic evil.
Would you write a letter or recommendation for either applicant? I wouldn’t. Even if I know that my boss is going to hire one or the other regardless of what I do, I don’t see how I can dishonor myself by endorsing someone I know to be unfit for the job.
If I wouldn’t write either President Obama or Mr. Romney a letter or recommendation to be the town dog catcher, I don’t see how I can endorse their bid for President with my vote.
I will not however be doing nothing. I’m working to educate others in conversations just like this both online and in real life. I’m also praying for the conversion of both men.
Pax Christi
I would say that not voting is not the same thing as “sitting on one’s hands” or doing nothing. We have a duty to be engaged in public life. Casting a ballot is not the only means of being engaged.
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t think someone will be sworn in as President, and barring any extermely strange turn of events, that person will either be President Obama or Mr. Romney. So?
Say your business was hiring a new manager and had narrowed the field of canidates down to two applicants.
Applicant A has a long history of deception and support of intrinsic evil.
Applicant B has a long history of deception and support of intrinsic evil.
Would you write a letter or recommendation for either applicant? I wouldn’t. Even if I know that my boss is going to hire one or the other regardless of what I do, I don’t see how I can dishonor myself by endorsing someone I know to be unfit for the job.
If I wouldn’t write either President Obama or Mr. Romney a letter or recommendation to be the town dog catcher, I don’t see how I can endorse their bid for President with my vote.
I will not however be doing nothing. I’m working to educate others in conversations just like this both online and in real life. I’m also praying for the conversion of both men.
Pax Christi
I
ishii
Guest
Dan Daly - Obama is full on, lock, stock and barrell in the pocket of the abortion lobby. Romney, by contrast, has picked the pro-life Catholic Paul Ryan as vice president and Robert Bork as judicial advisor. I highly doubt eithe of those two honorable men would join a “supporter of intrinsic evil.” Obama and Romney’s positions are NOT morally equivalent. I don’t say this thinking I can pursuade you, but so that no one else here will buy into your nonsense.
Ishii
D
Dan_Daly
Guest
Is direct abortion an intrinsic evil?
It is.
Taking Romney at his word, he supports direct abortion in a number of situations.
My statement that he supports intrinsic evil is factually correct, regardless of who has endorsed him.
If Mr. Romney and the GOP are so strongly “pro-life” why was Mr. Akin blacklisted, denied funding, and demanded by Mr, Romney (and Mr. Ryan) to get ouf his race, simply because he said some uncomfortably true things in the course of consistently defending the unborn, while on the other hand, Mr. Scott Brown who is quite openly pro-abortion is a Republican in good standing and a rising star of the party?
When people raise questions about Romney or the GOP, in general there are one of two responses from Republican supporters:
- Attack the person raising the questions.
- Attack Obama.
Romney supports abortion and many other evils. If someone wants to say “well, Romney isn’t a very good candidate, actually a horrible candidate, but I think voting for him is the most prudent decision” I would disagree, but I’d respect the honesty of the position.
Refusing to recognize reality and echoing false GOP talking points is not the way to gain trust. Romney’s stand on abortion is an inchorent mess of political expediency. After his most recent “conversion” to believing life begins at conception, what did he do? He promised not to work towards changing his state’s aggresively pro-abortion laws. So he now believed that abortion was murder…and the murder should continue unabated with legal sanction.
Pax Christi
D
Dan_Daly
Guest
Also, I have not said that Mr, Romney’s and President Obama’s positions are morally equivalent. I’ve said I find them both unacceptable.
Say you have 3 children and are looking for a baby sitter so you can go out with your wife. Babysitter A promises to murder all three of your children. Babysitter B says she’ll only murder one of them. The question isn’t whether or not the two babysitters are morally equivalent, the question is what parent in their right mind would hire either one of them.
Pax Christi
Say you have 3 children and are looking for a baby sitter so you can go out with your wife. Babysitter A promises to murder all three of your children. Babysitter B says she’ll only murder one of them. The question isn’t whether or not the two babysitters are morally equivalent, the question is what parent in their right mind would hire either one of them.
Pax Christi
I
ishii
Guest
All your mindless bluster fails to recognize these facts: 1) Abortion will remain the law of the land in this country unless Roe V Wade is overturned. 2) Romney has pledged to overturn Roe V Wade. 3) This would finally allow the pro-life movement to concentrate on changing the laws in the individual states. 4) Electing Romney/Ryan could be the most important pro-life victory in the history of the pro-life movement.
There you go. That is the political reality - and most rational people in the pro-life movement understand that voting for Romney/Ryan is the only logical thing to do - your disengenuous sophistry notwithstanding. Again, didn’t hope to convince you - just trying to keep others from being persuaded by your nonsense. Following your advice is the the opposite of what a good Catholic pro-life voter should do.
Ishii
D
Dan_Daly
Guest
The gap in your reasoning is that Romney has pledged to overturn Roe Vs. Wade.
When did he pledge to do so? How did he pledge to do so? Is he going to ask Congress to remove abortion from the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court? Is he going to ask Congress or the states for a constitutional ammendment? Or is he simply going to appoint judges like Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito, who don’t think a child has a right to life, but Catholics are told to trust they will protect the unborn?
So I am interested in how exactly ou think Mr. Romney has promised to overturn Roe.
Secondly, just because someone pledges to do something, does not mean that they will do it. There is quite a substantial body of evidence to suggest that Romney is not being forthright regarding abortion.
As far as bluster vs. reasoned argument. You questioned my assertion that Mr. Romney supports intrinsic evil, because Paul Ryan and Robert Bork support him.
As I said, direct abortion is an intrinsic evil. Do you agree or disagree?
As I said, Mr. Romney supports abortion if a mother claims that she is a victim of rape or incest or if a doctor says her life is in danger. He also supports abortifacient drugs such as the birth control pill. Do you dispute these facts?
So Mr. Romney does in fact support an intrinsic evil. Do you agree or disagree?
Pax Christi
When did he pledge to do so? How did he pledge to do so? Is he going to ask Congress to remove abortion from the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court? Is he going to ask Congress or the states for a constitutional ammendment? Or is he simply going to appoint judges like Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, and Alito, who don’t think a child has a right to life, but Catholics are told to trust they will protect the unborn?
So I am interested in how exactly ou think Mr. Romney has promised to overturn Roe.
Secondly, just because someone pledges to do something, does not mean that they will do it. There is quite a substantial body of evidence to suggest that Romney is not being forthright regarding abortion.
As far as bluster vs. reasoned argument. You questioned my assertion that Mr. Romney supports intrinsic evil, because Paul Ryan and Robert Bork support him.
As I said, direct abortion is an intrinsic evil. Do you agree or disagree?
As I said, Mr. Romney supports abortion if a mother claims that she is a victim of rape or incest or if a doctor says her life is in danger. He also supports abortifacient drugs such as the birth control pill. Do you dispute these facts?
So Mr. Romney does in fact support an intrinsic evil. Do you agree or disagree?
Pax Christi
J
JimG
Guest
It seems that at least the National Right to Life Committee does not find the two candidates to be equivalent on life issues. The NRLC has endorsed Romney.
nrlc.org/press_releases_new/Release041212.html
nrlc.org/press_releases_new/Release041212.html
J
JimG
Guest
In addition to the National Right to Life Committee, Romney also has the endorsement of the following organizations:
CatholicVote.org
The Missouri Right to Life Federal Political Action Committee
Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life
National Organization for Marriage
Oregon Right to Life
Susan B. Anthony List
Are these organizations all misguided on life issues?
And how many endorsements from pro-life organizations has Obama picked up?
CatholicVote.org
The Missouri Right to Life Federal Political Action Committee
Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life
National Organization for Marriage
Oregon Right to Life
Susan B. Anthony List
Are these organizations all misguided on life issues?
And how many endorsements from pro-life organizations has Obama picked up?
T
Tampa_Dave
Guest
He has my endorsement in Virginia too!
J
jwinch2
Guest
Good! So if Obama wins VA, I get to blame you personally…He has my endorsement in Virginia too!
T
Tampa_Dave
Guest
I can only vote for Romney, not guarantee a victory. I mentioned earlier that my wife counted 16 Romney yard signs versus 3 Obama signs during a neighborhood walk. At least we have enthusiasm in some parts of Northern Virginia!Good! So if Obama wins VA, I get to blame you personally…
J
jwinch2
Guest
But what about your endorsement? Are you telling me that your opinion carries absolutely no weight at all in NoVA?
T
Tampa_Dave
Guest
My opinion counts for very little in my own household, much less NoVA.But what about your endorsement? Are you telling me that your opinion carries absolutely no weight at all in NoVA?
J
jwinch2
Guest
So much for the “Tampa Dave endorsement bounce” that I was hoping for.My opinion counts for very little in my own household, much less NoVA.
Hopefully Romney can get out there and earn votes the old fashioned way by doing well in the debates and going on an extended tour of the states in flux.
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