Do You Attend An FSSP Parish?

[pickguard1]

StGerardMajella, I hope you took my post as one of support, as I agree with what you have said regarding the the difficulties families face. I don’t beleive there is any dogma regarding the family in these matters, just prudential guidance from tradition. Like I said, blanket chastisement for a certain working/stay at home arrangement seems to me inappropriate, as many factors may lie outside the individual family’s control.

Back to the original topic, though, I would say your experience is most likely a rare one, regarding the FSSP, so I would ask that you don’t let it color your opinion of all FSSP priests or communities.

 

[StGerardMajella]

Pickguard1 - Thank you for the note. I agree. I think it’s the particular parish and leadership. I actually greatly admire and enjoy the Latin Mass, just have had some negative experience with this particular parish.

Shin - Due apologies, sir, if my posts are a bit over the top. I just don’t like being humiliated by some arrogant, condescending priest making blanket characterizations of stay-at-home fathers. Especially when I am tithing my family income to support his parish.

 

[sparkielee]

Traddy, I wasn’t aware that StGerardMajella asked me a question; he was telling me-not you-that it was very inappropriate to mention the priests by name.

To comment on another issue-to “stick up” for some priest who lives in a fairy-tale world-I feel that in ideal circumstances that the woman should stay home and care for the children and home while daddy works to support the family. And daddy should spend some time with his wife and kids when he’s off work.

But that having mommy stay home and take care of the house and kids may not always be possible to do in some families at this time. Whether or not it’s a sin to have or let the wife work or not when it isn’t necessary, it can’t be a sin if all the man can do is be a greeter at Wal-Mart and has to pay the mortgage or rent, the gas, electric, and phone bills as well as for the kids’ tuition.

My dad worked in a factory where everyone was a member of the union and even worked Saturdays when they had enough work for him to do this. But my mom went to work when I was in high school and I didn’t get any help from my parents financially to go to college. There were only 3 of us kids-or 2 after one of them died-so we weren’t a very large family.

I don’t think in our situation that my mother sinned by getting a job. And I don’t think my dad sinned by encouraging her to get one or even helping her to get one.

In some ways it was good that I was 16 and old enough to be left alone or with younger siblings without a baby sitter. But when both parents are working-or someone is a single parent- kids can get away with all kinds of things they shouldn’t be doing. And that definitely includes teenagers-who have been having sex, stealing, and doing drugs.

Maybe single parents and mothers whose husbands can’t support the family ought to consider having a home based business.

-sparkie

 

[Traddy]

Fr. Berg was only here a couple days…didn’t get to see him! Darn!

 

[StGerardMajella]

Sparkie - If a father gets laid off, and the wife has a “recession-proof” job, such as being a teacher, or a nurse, how is it a sin if the father stays home to raise children while he looks for a job in the meantime?

According to the FSSP priest, the father should take 2-3 jobs - even if they are low-paying (such as your Wal-Mart greeter example) - just so the mother can stay home with the children.

It might take a man 6 months to a year or more to find a good-paying job given the current economic climate.

In fact, even the LOW-paying jobs are highly competitive. I read one news story in the Wall Street Journal about 1500 people applying for a job as a janitor in a small town in Ohio. Media is reporting jobs at restaurants as waiters, dishwashers, etc. are highly competitive - Restaurants are getting resumes from people with Master’s degrees looking for work, etc.

How is this a sin? At least one parent is home with the young children. How is Mr. Mom a role that should be humiliated and criticized? I would argue that most Mr. Mom’s would much rather prefer to be in a normal workaday job, than being a homemaker.

But isn’t it the responsible thing to do to stay home with the children, even if it’s the father and not the mother based on circumstances?

I know I am exhausting my point here, but this is the kind of thinking that I see in my FSSP parish all the time. Dogmatism with blinders on.

 

[pickguard1]

Fr. Berg was only here a couple days…didn’t get to see him! Darn!

Bummer!

 

[jmcrae]

How is this a sin? At least one parent is home with the young children. How is Mr. Mom a role that should be humiliated and criticized? I would argue that most Mr. Mom’s would much rather prefer to be in a normal workaday job, than being a homemaker.

But isn’t it the responsible thing to do to stay home with the children, even if it’s the father and not the mother based on circumstances?

I know I am exhausting my point here, but this is the kind of thinking that I see in my FSSP parish all the time. Dogmatism with blinders on.

If one were to be truly traditional, and not just reverting back to a world of 40-100 years ago, then both the father and the mother would stay at home with the children, while operating a family farm, bakery, butcher’s shop, or other business from out of the first floor and yard of their home.

The Industrial Revolution took fathers out of the home and made it seem “normal” for men to go away to work while leaving the women home to care for the children and the home. The current economic climate is driving women out to work, but bringing the men back home.

I think that 100 years from now, “traditionalists” are going to start castigating women who leave their “natural place in the workplace as providers to their families” to return home to their children, “making themselves to be like men.”

 

[pickguard1]

If one were to be truly traditional, and not just reverting back to a world of 40-100 years ago, then both the father and the mother would stay at home with the children, while operating a family farm, bakery, butcher’s shop, or other business from out of the first floor and yard of their home.

The Industrial Revolution took fathers out of the home and made it seem “normal” for men to go away to work while leaving the women home to care for the children and the home. The current economic climate is driving women out to work, but bringing the men back home.

I think that 100 years from now, “traditionalists” are going to start castigating women who leave their “natural place in the workplace as providers to their families” to return home to their children, “making themselves to be like men.”

I think you have stumbled upon a very telling thing here. Was it not the case that both men AND women HAD to work to make a living? The image of a family farm is great example, because even though the man might have done a lot of the back-breaking labor (ploughing fields, chopping wood, building the house/fences/stables, hunting. The women did just as much work (somtimes the back-breaking stuff, too) feeding the animals, harvesting crops, washing the laundry, cooking the meals, slaughtering animals, making butter, etc. I think the roles of husband and wife are very perfectly defined by our Lord, through St. Paul:

Ephesians chapter 5:
"22 Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord: 23 Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject to Christ: so also let the wives be to their husbands in all things. As the church is subject to Christ… The church then, according to St. Paul, is ever obedient to Christ, and can never fall from him, but remain faithful to him, unspotted and unchanged to the end of the world. 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it: 26 That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life: 27 That he might present it to himself, a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So also ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. "

Everything else - work by either spouse, outside the home or in it, should be done with the goal of making this relationship between the spouses a reality. That the responsibilities for daily sustenance need to stay the same is not dogmatic, nor is there any uniform history of who has to do the dishes or stack the hay. That stuff is irrelevant, so long as it doesn’t disrupt the harmony of the spouses.

 

[dove51]

I go to an FSSP church as often as I can. I really love it. The priests there are so wonderful in confession and their homilies are great. They’ve honestly had a huge impact on my life. I don’t know any of the people who attend, so I can’t comment on the community aspect. I just go for the Mass.

 

[sparkielee]

If the wife has a stable job like teaching or nursing and the husband is laid off, then Daddy is needed to stay home with the kids. In fact my own father has gotten laid off a number of times after my mother returned to work. My parents did nothing wrong; they did what they needed to do considering the circumstances.

And my dad did enjoy staying home with us kids. I knew another man who stayed home with his kids temporarily-he was the father of twins who were still infants. I read that kids whose fathers stay home with them get more love. Whether that’s true or not I’m happy that staying home with me and my brother was a joy.

-sparkie

 

[barb_finnegan]

It is tradition that the husband is responsible, has an actual duty bound under sin (barring of course extraordinary circumstances, etc.) to provide for his wife so she does not have to work outside of the home – where her duties lie.

This is what I’ve heard from the F.S.S.P. on this issue, and all the details, particular, and how binding particular bits are I have yet to look into. But it is not a matter of opinion for them. It is a matter of the essential roles and nature of the family in tradition, which as we all know in these times has come under assault to the point where people do not even understand the basics and so it is of the highest priority to correct.

We’ve lost a lot of tradition, a whole lot – it should not surprise people to find out they’re missing out on whole swathes of core knowledge. And I would think personality clashes would matter very little compared to acquiring a proper education. It can and normatively should be a good exercise in humility and other virtues.

I do not want to derail this thread, but I want to state this for the record. I wonder how some people would handle working for St. Jean Marie Vianney.

Shin-great post.

In my experiences with the FSSP priests preaching, I don’t remember hearing any of them say the things that St.GerardMajella is upset about.

[going back to Shin] Remember I was telling you the FSSP priests I liked the most? There was one who really impressed me-Fr. Gerard Saguto. When he came to say our Mass, he had been newly ordained, and after Mass, he let us come up and kiss his hands and receive his blessing. That was really cool!

The tabernacle in the chapel is usually off to the side in the sanctuary, so it has to be moved when the Latin Mass group is there, to the center of the altar. When Fr. Saguto came, he always put on a cope and took the ciborium out of the tabernacle and wrapped the cope around it. And when he turned to the side, I swore he looked exactly like-a young Eugenio Pacelli [Pius XII]! Really…I’m not kidding…*

 

[pickguard1]

[going back to Shin] Remember I was telling you the FSSP priests I liked the most? There was one who really impressed me-Fr. Gerard Saguto. When he came to say our Mass, he had been newly ordained, and after Mass, he let us come up and kiss his hands and receive his blessing. That was really cool!

I think this is something that all new priests in the FSSP do (and I think it was - or may still be IDK?- a tradition for all new priests). I’m not sure of how long the period lasts, or if there are a certain number of times it can be done, but this is called receiving the priest’s “first blessing.” I have done this with maybe a half a dozen or so priests from the FSSP, and I think it is a wonderful thing - being able to receive a brand new priest’s first blessing, and kiss the hands that hold Our Lord at the consecration is a wonderful act of reverence for Christ’s priesthood.

 

[pickguard1]

Just as an aside, I received a PM from a poster asking what FSSP means.The point was brought up that we should define and spell out our acronyms at the outset of the post for those who are unfamiliar with them. I think that is a completely proper request!

It is the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (the FSSP are the initials for the Latin title of the order. They offer the mass according to the 1962 missal (in Latin) and follow the old liturgical calendar. The order was founded by priests who were originally members of the Society of St. Pius X who separated from that order when its problems *vis-a-vis *Rome began. more info on them can be found at their website here.

peace,
Will

 

[Shin]

Ah, now I’m all wistful… I do not have easy access to these masses. Yet. It -is- worth moving to gain such.

When I think of going to such masses, I say to myself, ‘Finally I will hear the spoken tradition passed down from the beginning that was forgotten, the Word of God.’

 

[cowboytogo]

Yes, I attend St Anne’s in San Diego. Right now it is a work in progress. But, I believe, once finished it will be a beautiful church.

 

[pickguard1]

Yes, I attend St Anne’s in San Diego. Right now it is a work in progress. But, I believe, once finished it will be a beautiful church.

What part of San Diego is St. Anne’s in? I think I might have been there once. Do the priests have a dispensation to celebrate in the Byzantine Rite? I seem to remember a lot of Icons there…

 

[Ichbinian]

This is Traddy here…I had to get a new account.

We just received sad news at St. Clement…one of our priests is being transferred.

 

[pickguard1]

This is Traddy here…I had to get a new account.

We just received sad news at St. Clement…one of our priests is being transferred.

But that hopefully means some others will be blessed with his presence!

 

[paramedicgirl]

Yes, I love how many parishes know many FSSP priests. Small, Catholic world! Love it.

I know Fr. Pendergraft as well! Our parish used to go to the Auriesville pilgrimage…in fact there’s a write-up of one a long time ago, and we are mentioned in it (I wasn’t there). Fr. Pendergraft also came to our pilgrimage in Canada in 2007 (www.marie-reine.ca). It’s the “Canadian Chartres.” 60 mile/100km pilgrimage.

Yes, I know Fr. Deprey, the pastor! He taught me religion in high school. He’s a very holy priest. Really nice guy too!

Father Deprey is the head priest at my FSSP parish. Last week he did mention that he used to be a teacher.

I just saw Fr. Deprey last Sunday in Sacramento, CA! He was visiting just for the weekend, but he was at St. Stephen’s out here for a couple years, and Baptised my youngest.

Small Catholic world indeed!

Yes,the trad world is very small! It seems everyone knows Father Deprey. We also have a new, young priest, Father Geddes. He has been given a gift as a very good confessor. He gives excellent spiritual advice, and his lineups for the confession are very long indeed. One priest sits in the confessional while another says Mass, and they are always reminding the people to go to confession. We are blessed to have two such holy priests.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Pickguard1 - Thank you for the note. I agree. I think it’s the particular parish and leadership. I actually greatly admire and enjoy the Latin Mass, just have had some negative experience with this particular parish.

Shin - Due apologies, sir, if my posts are a bit over the top. I just don’t like being humiliated by some arrogant, condescending priest making blanket characterizations of stay-at-home fathers. Especially when I am tithing my family income to support his parish.

One should never criticize a priest. You should pray a Hail Mary for him instead. At any rate, I think the priest is basically right - there has been a flip flop in society as far as role reversal goes. You make his sermon sound like it was a personal attack, but it is more likely that you took it personally when he was speaking generally. Remember, his sermons are for spiritual guidance, so that the faithful will do all things for the greater glory of God and the good of their souls.