Do you believe in "soulmates"?

[GEddie]

I certainly don’t, but then, to my mind, romantic love is a mirage anyhow.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Re SOS, first of all, this is what the USCCB commentary states about it:

usccb.org/bible/songofsongs/

The Song of Songs (or Canticle of Canticles) is an exquisite collection of love lyrics, arranged to tell a dramatic tale of mutual desire and courtship. It presents an inspired portrayal of ideal human love, a resounding affirmation of the goodness of human sexuality that is applicable to the sacredness and the depth of married union.

Note that despite the SOS often being referred to as the Song of Solomon, and Solomon IS mentioned in the Song, this does NOT mean that the Bride is actually one of Solomon’s many wives. Indeed, many think the Song was originally composed in pieces, and someone edited them all into the form that is found in the Bible.

Betrothed doesn’t mean they “met, fell in love, and then were married.” Indeed, it was an arranged marriage, which was all the more reason the bridegroom went out of his way to woo the bride–to assure her that he would love her and care for her as he would for his own body.

Actually, it’s not just the bridegroom who speaks of love, it’s the bride, too. She seems to be “wooing” the man just as much. She’s not just dutifully submitting to her father’s wishes.

All the erotic images are true ones of the person being described, not a image imposed on her. She is all the things the bridegroom says she is. He isn’t merely flattering her, he’s wooing her, telling her how she delights him. But it was an arranged marriage. She was sent to him to be his bride by her father.

So the bride is actually “most beautiful among women”? The bridegroom also states the bride is “beautiful in every way, there is no flaw in you”. Hmm, seems pretty “romantic” and “unrealistic” to me.

Also, in Part 3, the bride even states:

On my bed at night I sought him*
whom my soul loves—
I sought him but I did not find him.

Again, she’s not just a passive object being exchanged between her father and groom. As the USCCB commentary states, the song is about “mutual desire and courtship”.

Now, if the Song really was written by or about Solomon, certainly the “arranged marriage” interpretation makes sense. But that hasn’t even been established, and I don’t recall a lot of commentary that states “this is definitely about an arranged marriage between Solomon and one of his wives”.

ETA: I’d also point out that “arranged marriage” and “love marriage” are not mutually exclusive, either. Even now there are cultures where there are specific rituals of “arranged marriage” that are followed even if the couple actually came to know and love each other before the betrothal.

The USCCB commentary goes as far as to state this:

The Song offers a welcome corrective to negative applications of the theological metaphor of the marriage/covenant in some prophetic texts. It frequently proclaims a joyous reciprocity between the lovers and highlights the active role of the female partner, now a pure figure to be cherished rather than an adulterous woman to be punished and abused.

 

[ellam25]

I belieeve that there are people who are “right” for each other. Not necessarily like they were destined to be together since the dawn of time or anything though. That notion is just kind of silly.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

My husband and I consider each other soulmates. This is my first marriage, but my husband’s second.

I don’t believe in soulmates as Hollywood portrays it, or skipping through the meadows holding hands all the time type of way.

I believe in soulmates as we were meant to be together. We are usually on the same wavelength and we frequently tell each other to “get out of my head,” and we are usually thinking the same thing at the same time. We agree on MOST things. Where we don’t agree usually has something to do with his kids from his previous marriage. It definitely hasn’t been a bed of roses the entire time. We have worked through all of it and our marriage is stronger for it.

 

[Sarcelle]

Why do so many “soulmates” divorce?

It just romantic bunk.

Now before you throw out the word soulmate let me try to salvage the concept at first. One does not meet a soul mate. A married couple through hard work, perseverance along with the grace of God can be soul mates, but it is more of a destination and not as a point of departure. A couple do not begin as soulmates to each other, but in time, especially if they rightly order their marriage to God, can become each other’s soulmate.

 

[808Catholic]

I’ve noticed in some evangelical circles, the idea that God ordains certain people to pair up romantically and eventually in marriage. The idea that “God brought us together” and that one’s romantic partner is a “soulmate”.

I’ve seen the idea in secular circles as well, but without the idea of “God’s Will”.

Unfortunately, in secular circles, the “soulmate” idea is often used to excuse serial monogamy, serial divorce and re-marriages, even outright adultery, with the excuse being “Well I thought X was my soulmate, but then I met Y, and I realized no, Y is my REAL soulmate, I’m meant to be with Y, I have no obligation to stay with X”.

But I’ve noticed in evangelical circles, the “soulmate” idea can be used to browbeat people into staying in relationships because it is “God’s Will” they do so, even if the “soulmate” is abusive, adulterous, etc. Some even claim it is “God’s Will” for the abused spouse to remain because her job is to somehow convert the abuser, and to refuse that “mission” makes the abused spouse as bad as Jonah, who initially refused the mission to Nineveh.

I’ve even noticed on CAF, posts about very unhealthy, even abusive relationships, where the posters agonize over whether it is “God’s Will” for them to remain in the relationship.

All of these somewhat twisted to me, but does anyone here believe the concept? Am I missing something?

In my opinion, Catholics are all “soulmates” because we believe in the communion of saints. I don’t subscribe to any theory that there are people out there we are destined to “be with” even though we’re married to another. God does not make mistakes joining a man and woman in Holy Matrimony! People make mistakes by thinking they can ignore God’s will and remarry when they “feel” moved to do so.

 

[GEddie]

I think soulmates and talk of soulmates is one of the worst things Hollywood did to us. I mean think about how often everyone is talking about wanting a soulmate. I don’t even think it makes sense.

I mean think about it. How often can two people be that in sync? Sure, in college. Or yeah, at a job where the two of them do the same type of thing. Or ok, maybe in some kind of extra-carricular group or something. But all the time? No way. So then what happens? You are no longer soulmates? Really?

For once I wish movies would comment about real life and show a couple of people with courage and convictions and strength of character.

I guess what I’m saying is show someone who is just the opposite of me.

I imagine that the soulmate meme is older than Hollywood, though maybe not by much.

Romantic writing and the like.

The kind of movie you describe will never be made, for the reason that studios aren’t in business to flop. When patrons go to a picture, they want to see not the plains and rolling hills of our life, though these go on for time zones, but rather the breathtaking heights and shattering plummets that occupy only a few miles in the journey.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

In my opinion, Catholics are all “soulmates” because we believe in the communion of saints. I don’t subscribe to any theory that there are people out there we are destined to “be with” even though we’re married to another. God does not make mistakes joining a man and woman in Holy Matrimony! People make mistakes by thinking they can ignore God’s will and remarry when they “feel” moved to do so.

That comes from the secular meme of following one’s heart, or worse, gut, to live life.

It is not the heart or the gut that knows what is true, but – surprise, surprise – because it is connected to all the senses, the mind.

ICXC NIKA

 

[mdleagedguy]

I don’t think there is such a thing as a “soulmate” as used in popular culture. There are many people who share similar characteristics, and therefore there are multiple people with whom one might be happy in marriage. However, I do think that the hand of God comes into play if we invite Him in. I am often amazed at my good fortune in finding my wife. I had prayed that God would send me someone, and He did. At the time, I had no idea how large families are looked down upon in our culture. I wanted at least six kids. I met my wife, we became friends, and then we realized we loved each other. She also wanted a large family, which was unusual at the school I was going to. It was highly secularized and the whole “people are bad for the planet” thing was very much in fashion. Her parents also had that mindset, and we’ve had issues with them every time she became pregnant. They have never seen our last three children and they don’t want to. Yet, somehow I found a wonderful woman to marry. And this, despite what an idiot I was in my twenties and the amount of maturing we both had to do. We have had our trials, especially early in our marriage. But this helped us grow as Christians. In fact, I think that God matched us for our weaknesses in order to help us develop as people. Even our flaws and sinfulness He has used for good.

That said, if something were to happen to her I would want to remarry. I like being married, and I think I would make a good husband to another woman if I were to have the misfortune of losing my wife. I would not want to enter into old age without someone to be with. I think human beings have a need to love others, and while we may settle on a particular person that doesn’t mean that is the only person we would be compatible with. How many people think they have found their “soulmate” and been wrong? We have a set of people that we are compatible with, and we choose one of those people.

 

[Trident_H]

I don’t think there is such a thing as a “soulmate” as used in popular culture. There are many people who share similar characteristics, and therefore there are multiple people with whom one might be happy in marriage. However, I do think that the hand of God comes into play if we invite Him in. I am often amazed at my good fortune in finding my wife. I had prayed that God would send me someone, and He did. At the time, I had no idea how large families are looked down upon in our culture. I wanted at least six kids. I met my wife, we became friends, and then we realized we loved each other. She also wanted a large family, which was unusual at the school I was going to. It was highly secularized and the whole “people are bad for the planet” thing was very much in fashion. Her parents also had that mindset, and we’ve had issues with them every time she became pregnant. They have never seen our last three children and they don’t want to. Yet, somehow I found a wonderful woman to marry. And this, despite what an idiot I was in my twenties and the amount of maturing we both had to do. We have had our trials, especially early in our marriage. But this helped us grow as Christians. In fact, I think that God matched us for our weaknesses in order to help us develop as people. Even our flaws and sinfulness He has used for good.

That said, if something were to happen to her I would want to remarry. I like being married, and I think I would make a good husband to another woman if I were to have the misfortune of losing my wife. I would not want to enter into old age without someone to be with. I think human beings have a need to love others, and while we may settle on a particular person that doesn’t mean that is the only person we would be compatible with. How many people think they have found their “soulmate” and been wrong? We have a set of people that we are compatible with, and we choose one of those people.

Well that’s pretty sweet. I mean I’m happy that things worked out for you. My own marriage was anulled after 3 1/2 years. So maybe God didn’t match us too well?

I mean to be fair, God did not wreck our marriage. I, ah, did. Yeah. I did that. Single-handedly.

 

[mdleagedguy]

Well that’s pretty sweet. I mean I’m happy that things worked out for you. My own marriage was anulled after 3 1/2 years. So maybe God didn’t match us too well?

I mean to be fair, God did not wreck our marriage. I, ah, did. Yeah. I did that. Single-handedly.

My wife and I could easily have done the same thing early in our marriage. It took a lot of change on the part of both of us. In fact, I think the best thing about our marriage is that it forced us to change.

 

[Glomung]

No. There is no such thing as a “soulmate”. It’s just a bunch of romantic nonsense.

In my experience, if you put any two single people together long enough, they will “fall in love”. Whether they can get along for the long haul is a different issue.

In every “stable” marriage I’ve seen, the two started as friends, became more than friends, and after years together were still friends. All the supposed “soulmates” were a flash in the pan.

 

[Della]

My wife and I could easily have done the same thing early in our marriage. It took a lot of change on the part of both of us. In fact, I think the best thing about our marriage is that it forced us to change.

We married when I was 35 and had never been married before. The first year I cried every day! Due to our circumstances, I suddenly was a stay at home wife with little to do. Yeah, marriage takes adjusting to each other, all right.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Thanks for all the replies! One reason I state this is because I’ve actually had people in my own life suggest I should “pray for a husband”, and while most just want to see me married to a decent man, some do seem to really think that my “soulmate”, picked out by God to be the perfect husband for me, is out there somewhere, and all I have to do is pray to God and He will bring that man to me.

I’ve also had people console me about relationships that didn’t work out with the “It wasn’t God’s will that you be together” and imply that, again, God has already picked out the Perfect Husband for me.

I’ve also unfortunately known people stick it out in bad, even abusive marriage stating this is God’s will. Including someone who goes through fairly predictable cycles of:

1. Praising her husband to the skies.
2. Gradually making more and more complaints about her husband. “He’s a good man, really, BUT…”
3. Tell me she is sorry she made those complaints, that she is a bad wife who isn’t accepting God’s will that she be married to this man, etc.

Rinse, repeat.

 

[Della]

Thanks for all the replies! One reason I state this is because I’ve actually had people in my own life suggest I should “pray for a husband”, and while most just want to see me married to a decent man, some do seem to really think that my “soulmate”, picked out by God to be the perfect husband for me, is out there somewhere, and all I have to do is pray to God and He will bring that man to me.

I’ve also had people console me about relationships that didn’t work out with the “It wasn’t God’s will that you be together” and imply that, again, God has already picked out the Perfect Husband for me.

My mom firmly believed in “God has the perfect husband for you” which she hung onto for many years and through many failed relationship I had hoping I’d finally meet the “right one.” If she’d been Catholic I’m sure she’d have prayed many novenas for that intention. As it was I’m sure she prayed every day, perhaps every hour, for me to marry. The way she was brought up a woman got married, had children and died. That was life was all about for her. I simply didn’t fit that mold, and it drove her crazy, poor woman. When I did get married she wanted a grand affair whereas my intended and I wanted a simple ceremony–she was so elated that, at last, I’d be “normal.” So I can relate to your dilemma. I thought after I passed 30 that marriage simply wasn’t for me. Then I met my dh and that all changed. I married because I knew he was who and what was good for both of us. It was a mutual thing not me getting married for the sake of it. It shouldn’t be for anyone, IMHO. I think too many still get married simply because it’s expected not what is right at the time. Anyway, we became soulmates over time, but if I’d married someone else, I’m sure we’d have grown close, as well. We made it work by working at it. We didn’t expect sunshine and flowers every day. We had days like that, of course, but we’ve had plenty of hard times too, but we trusted in God, loved each other and we’re fine and happy with each other.

I’ve also unfortunately known people stick it out in bad, even abusive marriage stating this is God’s will. Including someone who goes through fairly predictable cycles of:

1. Praising her husband to the skies.

1. Gradually making more and more complaints about her husband. “He’s a good man, really, BUT…”

1. Tell me she is sorry she made those complaints, that she is a bad wife who isn’t accepting God’s will that she be married to this man, etc.

Rinse, repeat.

Well, each couple has to work out their own problems. Looking in someone’s relationship can be quite different from actually living in it. Pray for your friend and be a friend. That’s all you can do.

 

[EasterJoy]

Huh? Snarf! I don’t follow you here. Where did I say otherwise? Of course we are meant to mirror the love between Christ and his Church, but what does that have to do with the idea that we can have only one “true soulmate” as if marrying another person, equally good for us and us for them, would be outside of God’s plan for us? I don’t see that concept anywhere in Scripture.

Again, I don’t see where you are getting this in anything I wrote. I never wrote anything about marriage being a “business relationship.” I only noted that marriage in ancient times wasn’t romanticized like it is now. Most marriages were arranged by parents–spouses didn’t meet, fall in love, and then get married. No doubt couples most developed love and affection for each other as they became one, but it wasn’t a matter of searching for a soulmate or anythng of the kind, which is the model we use today.

Of course. And I wrote that too. We should choose people who are suitable for marriage and in a Christian marriage that means choosing someone who will help us grow in our faith. Being one in marriage doesn’t entail soft music and candlelight. It means loving them through everything, even when you want to slap them up the side of their head or think someone else might have “understood” better or you feel bored. It’s more than mere momentary feelings–it’s a commitment so we’d better be sure we’re committing to a person who will, as far as we’re able to determine, will be a faithful and helpful spouse, but that doesn’t mean that s/he alone, out of all the world’s inhabitants could possibly have been that “one.” To think so is romantic nonsense and leads to all sorts of evils, such as searching for that “right one” simply because one’s spouse isn’t satisfying our wants, and that sort of thing.

I was taking exception to your contention that in ancient times “A husband wasn’t someone you felt romantic about, he was someone who provided a living with the wife seeing to it that his children and household ran smoothly.” I took that to imply that the ancients didn’t have an expectation of eros between a husband and wife and that a positive view of eros is not to be found in the Bible. I don’t think that is true at all.

The concept of marriage being a relationship that is very much soul-to-soul definitely is in the Holy Scriptures. The idea that how much you are being seized with sexual desire for someone you are forbidden to marry by moral law is some gauge of whether you were “made for each other”? Oh, yes, you are right! That is a total bag of hooey!! That is copy straight from the devil’s textbook! My point is that the devil did not make something up out of whole cloth. The devil took the truth and twisted it beyond recognition, and did it long before Hollywood was invented. (Not that Hollywood isn’t a bicycle for sins that used to have to go on foot…)

 

[mdleagedguy]

we became soulmates over time

I like that.

 

[Trident_H]

My wife and I could easily have done the same thing early in our marriage. It took a lot of change on the part of both of us. In fact, I think the best thing about our marriage is that it forced us to change.

Um, well, yeah. I guess the problem with our marriage is that I hadn’t changed. Even though I thought I had.

I’m still glad it worked out for you though. I like hearing stories with happy endings.

 

[Millie123]

No I don’t believe in soulmates…I think that falls along the lines in the concept of fate, which I also don’t believe in. I think that people come in and out of our lives all of the time. I think that when we meet someone who we think may be marriage material. We freely discern whether or not to date them, then we freely discern whether or not to become engaged to them, then we freely consent to give ourselves to marriage with them. I think that the main problem, from my perspective, with the concept of “soulmates” is that it takes away a piece of our consent…as if my husband was preordained, or fated to be my husband…that my free will was just a small component of our marriage. My spouse and I freely chose as an act of will to marry each other…If we didn’t consent to marry each other then three other things may have happened.

1. It’s possible that I would never have married 2) It’s possible that I may have found another person to marry and have a perfectly good and valid marriage with them. Or 3) I could have had an invalid marriage with someone else.
   But, honestly, I freely chose to marry my spouse on our wedding day, to this day I continue to freely give my consent to marriage to this man. We were not soulmated, preordained, or fated to be together.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Soulmates is what happens when two flesh become one. And even then it is separate. People who speak of soulmates have no concept of what marriage and love is. For my wife is what one might call a soul mate. This was accomplished through a sacrament, and years of raising children, helping each other become more Holy, watching illnesses etc. To equate that with two people meeting online, skipping through a meadow with rainbows and unicorns is kind of insulting to marriage.

Yes.

Have you ever seen the film, “Yours, mine and ours”? (The original one with Lucille Ball and Henry Fonda)

Here’s a quote:

It’s giving life that counts. Until you’re ready for it, all the rest is just a big fraud. All the crazy haircuts in the world won’t keep it turning. Life isn’t a love in, it’s the dishes and the orthodontist and the shoe repairman and… ground round instead of roast beef. And I’ll tell you something else: it isn’t going to a bed with a man that proves you’re in love with him; it’s getting up in the morning and facing the drab, miserable, wonderful everyday world with him that counts.