Do you believe in the Big Bang? (Merged) Is it Catholic dogma?

[Shin]

Here is a small portion of:

What must be believed about origins.

An excerpt:

God created everything “in its whole substance” from nothing (ex nihilo) in the beginning. (Lateran IV; Vatican Council I)

**Genesis contains real history—it gives an account of things that really happened. (Pius XII, Humani generis)
**
Various senses are employed in the Bible, but the literal obvious sense must be believed unless reason dictates or necessity requires (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus).

**All the Fathers who wrote on the subject believed that the Creation days were no longer than 24-hour-days. (Consensus of the Fathers of the Church)
**

And again:

Science Cannot Explain History: Errors of Big Bang Cosmology

Big Bang Fizzles, Moses Sizzles

Courtesy of Romans 10:17

Debunks the pseudo-science with real science, and debunks it based on the Faith.

 

[GaryTaylor]

St Cyprian

“The first seven days in the divine arrangement contain seven thousand years” (Treatises 11:11 [A.D. 250]).

Consensus isn’t all.

Lactantius

“Therefore let the philosophers, who enumerate thousands of ages from the beginning of the world, know that the six-thousandth year is not yet complete. . . . Therefore, since all the works of God were completed in six days, the world must continue in its present state through six ages, that is, six thousand years. For the great day of God is limited by a circle of a thousand years, as the prophet shows, who says, ‘In thy sight, O Lord, a thousand years are as one day [Ps. 90:4]’” (Divine Institutes 7:14 [A.D. 307]).

Big Bang and Creation

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnet-abbey.org%2Fbig-bang-and-creation.htm&ei=ifk8VNCRFKK88wHxioHYDw&usg=AFQjCNHGe-Jeitj1RJM5xZjpi7vZW4FFKA&sig2=zOuA9VHVd52VzP0oXwl0Sw

 

[agnes_therese]

Why would God do that?

It may take me a month to put up a shelf but God could put the shelf up quicker than I can blink, why would He take a month also?

Why should we limit God to what we would do?

 

[michaelhager]

Why would God do that?

It may take me a month to put up a shelf but God could put the shelf up quicker than I can blink, why would He take a month also?

God is outside of time as we know it. Even the bible says that a thousand years n earth is but a day in heaven. We don;'t know why God does anything, but to him, perhaps a billion years is like the blink of an eye.

He’s always been around, he’ll always be around, He’s not in any hurry. Why wouldn’t he?

 

[Aloysium]

When I first took physics in university, we used slide rules to make calculations. The Steady Stae Theory was still in the texts, if I recall correctly, although support was waning after the discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation. I don’t mean to present myself as ancient, but theories do come and go, and as Shin above describes, there’s a lot of garbage in the literature.

As far as I am concerned, Genesis reveals the truth as it is important for us to understand. I am not going to go into the business of creating universes, so it does not matter how it actually all took place.

The issue I have in answering the OP’s question has to do with interpretation. For me, the interesting thing about the theory of the origins of the universe is that we can fix a time when it happened. While it suddenly, POOF!!, did appear, it (the laws and prinicples that govern how matter behaves and interacts in time and space thereby comprising the physical universe) developed to what it is now, undergoing various transformations lasting from the spans of time much smaller than possibly can be imagined to stretches of billions of years. On top of that however is the appearance of life in the form of plants, animals and humanity. These I understand as being of a distinct nature above and in addition to that involving the subatomic, chemical and astronomical. That is in line with Genesis which presents creation as happening in a step-wise fashion, each new layer on that made previously.

On the other hand, I’m not sure the same laws that underlie the behaviour of universe as it was, is and will be, could not have preexisted the initial moment of the Big Bang. IOW’s one universe could follow another. Although this does not fit with what has been revealed, nor does it make sense to me, I at least, cannot disprove it scientifically.

All I need to know is that the Triune God who is Love, Beauty, Truth and Being, through the Word created and maintains this and all worlds; He became one of us that we, and thereby all creation, may share in His divine nature. The rest, if it does not lead us to wonder and to glorify His name, if it does not facilitate our helping one another, it is as stated by Paul, only “a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal”.

 

[McCartney]

Why would God do that?

It may take me a month to put up a shelf but God could put the shelf up quicker than I can blink, why would He take a month also?

The Church allows us to believe in evolution. I cannot speak for God but He may have done it in a slow process. Yes you and God can put up a shelf but you cannot create the Earth. How He did it and how long He took to do it we do not know.

 

[Boulder257]

I answered that I am a Catholic and I agree.

 

[Aloysium]

The Church allows us to believe in evolution. I cannot speak for God but He may have done it in a slow process. Yes you and God can put up a shelf but you cannot create the Earth. How He did it and how long He took to do it we do not know.

Depends what you mean by evolution. In science it is understood as something happening at a molecular level - the result of random electromagnetic forces that govern how atoms and hence molecules interact. No creation is involved. Man, seen through this lens, is a simply bag of complex chemical activity within the larger chemical environment. At any rate, it does not explain much of what we know to be true about what it means to be human and in social terms justifies power as the basis of morality, altruism being a means to greater power by the group.

God created time, so it took Him no time to create the universe. The universe unfolded as it did according to His will.

 

[mateoricci]

I only voted no because as a Catholic I didn’t have the option to say that I really don’t care. A theory is a theory and while fun to think about doesn’t add or detract from my awe that God should want to be one of us and save us.

 

[disputationist]

The currently accepted theory of the Big Bang does NOT include the idea that everything originated from a singularity. It just requires that the everything we can see was in a region small enough to be in thermal equilibrium. In fact there’s indications from quantum gravity that singularities may not exist. Source : I’m a PhD student in theoretical physics.

 

[sreddicks1]

I think with God all things are possible. The human brain cannot comprehend “nothing” nor “eternity” but God can. I don’t have an opinion in either direction. Trying to figure out God’s mind is like making Him giggle to me. St. Theresa once said “if you want to make God laugh, just give him your ideas.” Something like that. Our thoughts are so worthless it isn’t worth thinking about whether the big bang occurred or not.
I have this to say though. If there were a big bang, Why is the galaxy of Andromeda coming right at us? In an explosion everything goes outward. Just a thought.

 

[kbachler]

The Church allows us to believe in evolution. I cannot speak for God but He may have done it in a slow process. Yes you and God can put up a shelf but you cannot create the Earth. How He did it and how long He took to do it we do not know.

God could create your lifetime in an instant (and perhaps to Him it IS an instant) - but instead He allows you to experience it over many years. Does that question trouble you? If not, then if He allows things to happen over time, why should that cause a theological dilemma?

One slight nit to pick:

. . . except for the Andromeda galaxy, which is moving toward the Milky Way and will eventually merge with it, but not in our physical lifetimes.

When we say “All galaxies are moving away from each other” we are speaking of the trend of galactic group motion over very large distances and periods of time. We have seen evidence of galactic collisions and know that they have happened. See space.com/12637-stunning-galaxy-collision-photos.html. We are also, more explicitly, describing the expansion of the universe. We aren’t trying to describe local galactic motion.

Imagine a balloon covered with ants. Two ants may be walking toward each other, even though if you inflate the balloon further, all the ants are moving away from each other.

Okay. I am still confused.

Is the Big Bang a proven scientific fact or just the best/most acceptable scientific theory so far??

ALL scientific fact is just the best/most acceptable theory so far. There’s a great book called “Personal Knowledge” by Polyani.

 

[Tokopah]

Of course I believe in “the Big Bang”. God said, “Let there be light.” And BANG!!! – there was light.

 

[sreddicks1]

And that is what I’m saying, it’s swirling. A big bang, in a vacuum, would only go out. Not swirl. The only reason there is a swirl with bangs on Earth is the atmospheric interruption and gravity.
And no, Andromeda is not going to be here tomorrow, or the next day for that matter. But she is coming and we know that too. Distance is irrelevant. A vacuum is a vacuum. And space is a vacuum. We know this too. Things swirl much better in a liquid than a vacuum. Is space liquid? I don’t think so. But who knows, maybe to God a vacuum needs to have liquid properties to do what He wants to do.

 

[Kirk_Klosterman]

Yes, I believe the Big Bang happened that way and I also believe that God did it. God tried to make things simple for the profits to understand 2000+ years ago, it doesn’t mean that we have to be stubborn and ignorant to scientific evidence that we discover. God can do what ever he wants, how ever he wants to do it. God doesn’t have to report to us with all the complex details of the universe and how it was made. The whole “the universe and all things were created in 6 days” was probably true in Gods perspective. It probably seemed like 6 of our days to God when he created the universe. It was billions of years in our perspective and it started with Gods Big Bang!

And that is what I’m saying, it’s swirling. A big bang, in a vacuum, would only go out. Not swirl. The only reason there is a swirl with bangs on Earth is the atmospheric interruption and gravity.
And no, Andromeda is not going to be here tomorrow, or the next day for that matter. But she is coming and we know that too. Distance is irrelevant. A vacuum is a vacuum. And space is a vacuum. We know this too. Things swirl much better in a liquid than a vacuum. Is space liquid? I don’t think so. But who knows, maybe to God a vacuum needs to have liquid properties to do what He wants to do.

The material in the galaxies are swirling, the universe and the galaxies them selves are going straight out. The universe is expanding straight outward. Watch the history channel its better than our school systems.

 

[Yarb]

I am ONLY asking if you agree or disagree with the theory of the Big Bang.

In about 2000, Pope John Paul II remarked that the Big Bang does not conflict with Catholicism. He didn’t endorse it or oppose it; he only said that.

So in some internet forum, someone wrote “Did you hear the Pope now condones the Big Bang?”. And someone replied: “Yes, but only within marriage and for the purpose of procreation.”

 

[McCartney]

Depends what you mean by evolution. In science it is understood as something happening at a molecular level - the result of random electromagnetic forces that govern how atoms and hence molecules interact. No creation is involved. Man, seen through this lens, is a simply bag of complex chemical activity within the larger chemical environment. At any rate, it does not explain much of what we know to be true about what it means to be human and in social terms justifies power as the basis of morality, altruism being a means to greater power by the group.

God created time, so it took Him no time to create the universe. The universe unfolded as it did according to His will.

The currently accepted theory of the Big Bang does NOT include the idea that everything originated from a singularity. It just requires that the everything we can see was in a region small enough to be in thermal equilibrium. In fact there’s indications from quantum gravity that singularities may not exist. Source : I’m a PhD student in theoretical physics.

There you go. Listen to the PhD student.

 

[michaelhager]

I’m not sure I agree with this. I don’t have the verse in front of me but it says something like “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” According to the Big Bang, the universe(the heavens) began nearly 14 billion years ago. The earth formed something like 9 billion years later. That doesn’t sound like the beginning.

… “the Heavens and (then) the earth”… It could have been that way.

There is a story about a man fortunate enough to be granted a discussion directly with God and he asks, “Lord, what is time like in Heaven?”

And the Lord said, “One second in Heaven is like a billion years on earth.”

The man asked “Lord, what is treasure like in Heaven?”

The Lord replied “A penny on Heaven is like billion dollars on earth.”

The man thought awhile and said, "Lord, could I have a penny?

And the Lord said “Certainty my son, … wait just a second.”

We have no idea of the value of time in God’s realm. Since we believe God to be all powerful, why did it take him six days to create everything? In his power he could as easily have created everything, complete with the snap of His fingers. And on the seventh day He rested? Really? God the all powerful creator of EVERYTHING got worn out with all the work? I don’t think so! The message here is that God created you, give Him His due!

There is really no importance in how, when or how long it took for the world to be created. The importance is that the scriptures tell the story of creation to satisfy our basic need to understand our existence, and to set up the total body of the scriptures to prepare us for the coming of His Son, Jesus.

For a period of a few thousand years, many various authors of old testament scripture wrote stories and lessons that somehow, collectively, without collaboration amongst themselves, all pointed to the coming of the Savior.

The Old Testament is the prolog to the New Covenant. It lines up all the characters, lets us know who God is and what He expects of us and gives us a solid foundation for the arrival of His Son to atone for our sins and set us on a path to salvation.

It doesn’t even matter if any of it is historically, chronologically, literally accurate. To that point, why don’t the two creation stories in Genesis agree chronologically? In the first story God creates Man and woman together after everything else has been made. Then in the second creation story, God creates man BEFORE everything else on hearth. Why do we not debate this inconsistency as much as we debate creationism? Because it’s the message that is important, not the history.

As long as we understand the messages being taught us and believe, we are perfectly set up to accept the New Testament as Gospel and accept His sacrifice for our salvation…

 

[cfauster]

I knew and greatly respected the late, great Catholic philosopher Ernan McMullin. He defended a classical view of God’s atemporality and omniscience. Here’s an essay, publicly and freely available, by McMullin:
cis.org.uk/upload/Resources/Creation/cosmic_purpose.pdf
His concluding sentence ends with “… if one maintains the age-old doctrine of God’s atemporality, the contingency of the evolutionary process leading to the appearance of *Homo *sapiens makes no difference to the Christian belief in a special destiny for humankind.”

 

[michaelhager]

I knew and greatly respected the late, great Catholic philosopher Ernan McMullin. He defended a classical view of God’s atemporality and omniscience. Here’s an essay, publicly and freely available, by McMullin:
cis.org.uk/upload/Resources/Creation/cosmic_purpose.pdf
His concluding sentence ends with “… if one maintains the age-old doctrine of God’s atemporality, the contingency of the evolutionary process leading to the appearance of *Homo *sapiens makes no difference to the Christian belief in a special destiny for humankind.”

Amen…