Do you believe that practicing ABC is morally permissible? Answer if your Catholic only please.

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LaSainte said:
Then answer a simple question Bookcat. Does dissenting publically from Church teaching on contraception constitute heresy? If one persists in this even after admonition from the Church, is one a heretic and subject to the requisite canonical penalties? Has anyone ever done this and been excommunicated as a heretic in the history of the Church?

Please be plain.
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Sorry I had to go so I missed this…wife called (and she can give a “definitive” call to depart on our agreed time table…especially since I was late leaving :))

It is hard for me to answer your question here.

If it were in was in the items of the first section of the professio…then one would have to say yes if such was obstinant and the person of course was baptized.

But if it is in another category other than the first section…then no they would not be
“a heretic”…

(though there are of course other problems…very serious ones…)

As to the last part of the question…I am afraid I do not know all the happenings of excommunication (which of course is not the same thing as heresy…one can have such remedy applied for other things…) …around 2000 years…so I could not say here.
 
Bookcat said:
Sorry I had to go so I missed this…wife called (and she can give a “definitive” call to depart on our agreed time table…especially since I was late leaving :))

It is hard for me to answer your question here.

If it were in was in the items of the first section of the professio…then one would have to say yes if such was obstinant and the person of course was baptized.

But if it is in another category other than the first section…then no they would not be
“a heretic”…

(though there are of course other problems…very serious ones…)

As to the last part of the question…I am afraid I do not know all the happenings of excommunication (which of course is not the same thing as heresy…one can have such remedy applied for other things…) …around 2000 years…so I could not say here.
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Excellent, thanks for the answers. Now stop making your wife mad. She may not be able to brand you a heretic but I bet she could make things pretty unpleasant anyway 🙂
 
LaSainte said:
Excellent, thanks for the answers. Now stop making your wife mad. She may not be able to brand you a heretic but I bet she could make things pretty unpleasant anyway 🙂
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I need to better leave on time 🙂

As to the question…I really hope everyone got to read the whole document by now…it is only 8 pages…and is very rich.
 
LaSainte said:
… contraception…is a theological opinion.
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I cut out the other texts to get to what i wanted to comment on.

Hummmm…such is not the case…

it is NOT a theological opinion!

(but this is an old post…so prob the reading of the doc I posted from the CDF has cleared this up)
 
Corki said:
All infallible teaching must be believed with full assent of faith. There is no higher degree of assent.
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I would not word it that way…for such can be give the impression that one is to give the “assent of theological faith” to all that is infallible…and this is not actually the case (but readers do not get side tracked by this…for one is still to give assent! see the CDF doc for more detail)

This is an older post…so likely the reading of the CDF doc I posted has cleared this up.

(also in terms of the Catholic Encylopedia…there is much there that is very true and usefull…but also much that is somewhat out of date…it an old work)
 
Bookcat said:
I cut out the other texts to get to what i wanted to comment on.

Hummmm…such is not the case…

it is NOT a theological opinion!

(but this is an old post…so prob the reading of the doc I posted from the CDF has cleared this up)
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and it was prob a slip of the keyboard
 
Remember too that other Vatican document that noted that the Church has always taught that contraception is intrinsically evil…and the use there of the words regarding that it is to be held as ‘definitive and irreformable’…(for new readers it was posted on this thread…a few pages back)
 
Bookcat said:
I cut out the other texts to get to what i wanted to comment on.

Hummmm…such is not the case…

it is NOT a theological opinion!

(but this is an old post…so prob the reading of the doc I posted from the CDF has cleared this up)
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Please see the EWTN website I gave earlier. It is listed under those doctrines that are “theological opinions”, of which there are 4 types. Contraception falls under “sententia communia”, the third category of theological opinion.
 
LaSainte said:
You all DO know that claiming that the Church teaches something that it does not IS HERESY, yes? If you are saying that the Church teaches that those who do not believe in the teaching on contraception with divine and Catholic faith are heretics, then YOU are the heretics if you persist after correction. I would be careful.
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LaSainte,

Friend, if I might encourage and exhort ya to be careful about statements like this. We are not called to judge, we are called to pray for our brothers and sisters. Let us pray that all will come to a clearer and more enlightened understanding of Church Teaching.

I have to say this, I stand with the Church and those that are posting that Contraception is an infallible teaching that the Church takes a clear stand on. I think you are quite aware of where I stand.

God bless.
 
LaSainte said:
Corki, it does not matter if it is an infallible teaching or not. Not all infallible teachings must be believed with divine and Catholic faith. It may still be an infallible teaching without rising to this level.
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Infallible teaching is teaching that is Truth and has no error in it. It must be believed by Catholic and Divine Faith. If it cannot be believed in with this kind of faith, then it is not really infallible.

God bless.
 
LaSainte said:
As you can see from the above texts from Ott and EWTN, no heresy can be involved with dissent from Church teaching on contraception because t simply does not rise to that level of theological certainty which requires divine and Catholic faith, as it is not a DE FIDE teaching formally revealed by God, but a theological opinion.

Please can we be done with this?
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It is more than a theological opinion. Sources are out there. It is up to one whether they will accept it as Church Teaching or Not and to believe and practice it.

God bless.
 
Bookcat said:
I need to better leave on time 🙂

As to the question…I really hope everyone got to read the whole document by now…it is only 8 pages…and is very rich.
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Yeah I did not expect this much discussion on this thread when I started it. Guys read it now while you can, I think this may be a long thread.

God bless.
 
LaSainte said:
Please see the EWTN website I gave earlier. It is listed under those doctrines that are “theological opinions”, of which there are 4 types. Contraception falls under “sententia communia”, the third category of theological opinion.
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Can you please cite the source that says Contraception falls under “sententia communia”. I would like the sources if you got them. Thanks.

God bless.
 
Little_One0307 said:
LaSainte,

Friend, if I might encourage and exhort ya to be careful about statements like this. We are not called to judge, we are called to pray for our brothers and sisters. Let us pray that all will come to a clearer and more enlightened understanding of Church Teaching.

I have to say this, I stand with the Church and those that are posting that Contraception is an infallible teaching that the Church takes a clear stand on. I think you are quite aware of where I stand.

God bless.
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Thanks Little One 🙂
 
Little_One0307 said:
Infallible teaching is teaching that is Truth and has no error in it. It must be believed by Catholic and Divine Faith. If it cannot be believed in with this kind of faith, then it is not really infallible.

God bless.
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Actually, thIs isn’t quite true. I believe Bookcat mentioned the difference earlier. A teaching can be infallible without requiring divine and Catholic faith.
 
LaSainte said:
Please see the EWTN website I gave earlier. It is listed under those doctrines that are “theological opinions”, of which there are 4 types. Contraception falls under “sententia communia”, the third category of theological opinion.
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Such was his “theological opinion” at the time he wrote the article…
 
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