Do you believe the Kingdom of God is within you?

[grannymh]

From the Meditation in post 1.

“The Kingdom of Heaven is within you” (that is, here) and “at hand” (that is, now). It’s not later, but lighter—some more subtle quality or dimension of experience accessible to you right in the moment. You don’t die into it; you awaken into it."

In my humble observation, as I re-read the above, there is this notion that it is a tiny hidden attack on human nature. When one is rational about the goal of rebuilding Catholicism and substituting some original blessings for a basic Catholic teaching, one needs to search out what is really our human nature. Reference Meditation: myemail.constantcontact.com/Richard-Rohr-s-Meditation–Original-Blessing.html?soid=1103098668616&aid=yAlpFk3eNPc

When we spend a minute or two on the top line in white, first page of the above Meditation, we find a basic misunderstanding of foundational Catholicism.

While we certainly can experience dimensions of experience accessible right in the moment, (Meditation in post 1) we certainly do not "awaken into" our human nature.

Sometimes, a popular organization, has to tinker a bit with our human nature in order to bend it to fit a particular goal. Confusion is a great way to change human perceptions of the truth. For example – "a metaphor for a state of consciousness."

Personally I find metaphors very useful provided they are in keeping with true Catholicism which retains the first three basic chapters of Genesis.

 

[Deus_tecum]

If so, is it easy to explain?

Is the Kingdom of God a place we might go to after death (Heaven).

Is it both?

This daily mediation does make one think deeply about what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus :

*Jesus himself specifically contradicts it when he says, “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you” (that is, here) and “at hand” (that is, now). It’s not later, but lighter—some more subtle quality or dimension of experience accessible to you right in the moment. You don’t die into it; you awaken into it.
*

Where is it, then? Author Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a state of consciousness; it is not a place you go to, but a place you come from. [1] It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns this world into a different place.

Full mediation :

cac.org/the-kingdom-of-heaven-2017-04-11/

Yes, absolutely so. It is in Scripture and I believe it by faith. Also I have had the experience Thomas Merton describes when he was standing on a street corner in Louisville, KY. He felt the love of our Father and an outpouring of love to all the people who saw. With this for me came wisdom of things I never learned in class (I was a young teen at the time). That’s just one aspect of Heaven. In His mansion there are many rooms.

 

[Galnextdoor]

So when you sit to pray I hope you are not thinking about how sinful gay people are and how good and right it is to oppose their rights. Is that prayer? It sounds more like Luke 18:9 The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax-Collector.

How can you possibly have issue with that 7 minute video? He is talking about an open mind in Lectio Divina. For that moment of prayer, not judging or trying to prove anything but having an open mind to the work of God.

He is not teaching that Jesus has two beings. It seems to me that it is you who are sowing seeds of confusion as you clearly are not understanding him. Let the proper Church authorities deal with Fr. Richard if they feel the need.

But I have enjoyed the discussion. I simply do not agree with your conclusions.

May God bless you.

It sounds like you just closed your mind and made a judgement, something he says you are not supposed to do.

He’s not only talking about prayer in this video. He is talking about a mind set. The title of the video is A New Mind. He often throws in a saints name or a Church father’s name in to make it sound like there is some validity to what he is saying. I have said this over and over again. He takes Catholic terminology and gives it his own definition. If you like turning off your mind and not thinking, then you can be easily led astray. This man has essentially said that the only positives left in Christianity are Franciscans and Quakers. No mention of Catholics. I guess Catholics have too much negative baggage. If you listen to his lectures he frequently, subtly bashes Catholics. (They have had it wrong for the last 500 years. But he has it right. By the way, the early councils of the Church were mostly about pointing out things that were wrong and affirming things that were correct.)
If you go to any of his seminars one of his requirements is that you check your religious beliefs at the door. He wants you to open your mind to his “new” religious beliefs that melds all the religions of the world into one religion. You may occasionally hear something Catholic, but mostly you hear bits and pieces of all world religions. (A broken clock is right twice a day.)

If I go by your logic, that you are not supposed to be thinking about sex during prayer, than you are judging that certain thoughts are wrong to have. But according to him, you are not supposed to judge. So your mind is not open.

May God bless you and lead you down the right path.

 

[simpleas]

Yes, absolutely so. It is in Scripture and I believe it by faith. Also I have had the experience Thomas Merton describes when he was standing on a street corner in Louisville, KY. He felt the love of our Father and an outpouring of love to all the people who saw. With this for me came wisdom of things I never learned in class (I was a young teen at the time). That’s just one aspect of Heaven. In His mansion there are many rooms.

Thank you

 

[grannymh]

It sounds like you just closed your mind and made a judgement, something he says you are not supposed to do.

He’s not only talking about prayer in this video. He is talking about a mind set. The title of the video is A New Mind. He often throws in a saints name or a Church father’s name in to make it sound like there is some validity to what he is saying. I have said this over and over again. He takes Catholic terminology and gives it his own definition. If you like turning off your mind and not thinking, then you can be easily led astray. This man has essentially said that the only positives left in Christianity are Franciscans and Quakers. No mention of Catholics. I guess Catholics have too much negative baggage. If you listen to his lectures he frequently, subtly bashes Catholics. (They have had it wrong for the last 500 years. But he has it right. By the way, the early councils of the Church were mostly about pointing out things that were wrong and affirming things that were correct.)
If you go to any of his seminars one of his requirements is that you check your religious beliefs at the door. He wants you to open your mind to his “new” religious beliefs that melds all the religions of the world into one religion. You may occasionally hear something Catholic, but mostly you hear bits and pieces of all world religions. (A broken clock is right twice a day.)

If I go by your logic, that you are not supposed to be thinking about sex during prayer, than you are judging that certain thoughts are wrong to have. But according to him, you are not supposed to judge. So your mind is not open.

May God bless you and lead you down the right path.

By any chance, do you, or anyone else, have a link to a printed copy that has the “seminar requirement” that one should check one’s religious beliefs at the door. Appearing on CAF is the command “Don’t leave your brains at the door” which sounds similar, but it is not. I am looking for a link to the hard copy of the CAC seminar requirement which includes checking one’s religious beliefs at the door. This copy could be in an advertising piece etc. or in a Meditation promotion for attendance.

 

[simpleas]

It sounds like you just closed your mind and made a judgement, something he says you are not supposed to do.

He’s not only talking about prayer in this video. He is talking about a mind set. The title of the video is A New Mind. He often throws in a saints name or a Church father’s name in to make it sound like there is some validity to what he is saying. I have said this over and over again. He takes Catholic terminology and gives it his own definition. If you like turning off your mind and not thinking, then you can be easily led astray. This man has essentially said that the only positives left in Christianity are Franciscans and Quakers. No mention of Catholics. I guess Catholics have too much negative baggage. If you listen to his lectures he frequently, subtly bashes Catholics. (They have had it wrong for the last 500 years. But he has it right. By the way, the early councils of the Church were mostly about pointing out things that were wrong and affirming things that were correct.)
If you go to any of his seminars one of his requirements is that you check your religious beliefs at the door. He wants you to open your mind to his “new” religious beliefs that melds all the religions of the world into one religion. You may occasionally hear something Catholic, but mostly you hear bits and pieces of all world religions. (A broken clock is right twice a day.)

If I go by your logic, that you are not supposed to be thinking about sex during prayer, than you are judging that certain thoughts are wrong to have. But according to him, you are not supposed to judge. So your mind is not open.

May God bless you and lead you down the right path.

Any books or video’s I have read/watched with Fr R he has always said to check things out for yourself. So if a person does this and finds they don’t agree with what he says then fine, if a person finds they do agree that should be fine also. People can agree to disagree.

Anyway this thread wasn’t about Fr R.

Thanks again to those posters willing to share what they think, know from experience (including yourself) I appreciate the thoughts on the Kingdom of God.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

It sounds like you just closed your mind and made a judgement, something he says you are not supposed to do.

Now you are just being silly.

There is a time for judgement and a time to just rest from judgement.

Prayer is not ordinarily a time for judgement.

Rather, it is a time for listening with an openness to the Holy Spirit.

It seems to me that you are wanting to twist words and meanings. No Thanks.

 

[Galnextdoor]

By any chance, do you, or anyone else, have a link to a printed copy that has the “seminar requirement” that one should check one’s religious beliefs at the door. Appearing on CAF is the command “Don’t leave your brains at the door” which sounds similar, but it is not. I am looking for a link to the hard copy of the CAC seminar requirement which includes checking one’s religious beliefs at the door. This copy could be in an advertising piece etc. or in a Meditation promotion for attendance.

The links that I had to this were rerouted to something else after I posted them before. If you google the info about the document, the url appears to be intact and you can see a few sentences However, when when you clique on it, it you takes directly to a retreat house site that he is connected with.

I think seeing his good friend Matthew Fox get defrocked, has made him very cautious about what he puts in print.

 

[grannymh]

If so, is it easy to explain?

Is the Kingdom of God a place we might go to after death (Heaven).

Is it both?

This daily mediation does make one think deeply about what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus :

Jesus himself specifically contradicts it when he says, “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you” (that is, here) and “at hand” (that is, now). It’s not later, but lighter—some more subtle quality or dimension of experience accessible to you right in the moment. You don’t die into it; you awaken into it.

Where is it, then? Author Jim Marion’s wonderfully insightful and contemporary suggestion is that the Kingdom of Heaven is really a metaphor for a state of consciousness; it is not a place you go to, but a place you come from. [1] It is a whole new way of looking at the world, a transformed awareness that literally turns this world into a different place.

Full mediation :

cac.org/the-kingdom-of-heaven-2017-04-11/

Starting over with post 1.

I am very curious. What is wrong with believing that Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity?

Why does the Meditation author choose the horrible word “contradicts”? Why does the linked Meditation assume authority which may not belong to a human?

If Jesus Christ is the Second Divine Person in the Most Holy Trinity, then there is no human assumption that can “officially” deny the fact that the "Kingdom of God is within the spiritual soul and also existing as the real presence of heaven. Genesis 1:1 is not limited to creeping things and wild animals.

Simpleas is correct that the linked Meditation does make one think deeply about what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus.

I would add that the word *follow *is the operative important word. We need to explore the idea that when we follow the teachings of Jesus, being in the kingdom of God on earth, we can “*look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.” *(Creed professed at the Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass)

 

[simpleas]

Starting over with post 1.

I am very curious. What is wrong with believing that Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity?

Why does the Meditation author choose the horrible word “contradicts”? Why does the linked Meditation assume authority which may not belong to a human?

If Jesus Christ is the Second Divine Person in the Most Holy Trinity, then there is no human assumption that can “officially” deny the fact that the "Kingdom of God is within the spiritual soul and also existing as the real presence of heaven. Genesis 1:1 is not limited to creeping things and wild animals.

Simpleas is correct that the linked Meditation does make one think deeply about what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus.

I would add that the word *follow *is the operative important word. We need to explore the idea that when we follow the teachings of Jesus, being in the kingdom of God on earth, we can “*look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.” *(Creed professed at the Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass)

This part of the mediation is where the word contradict is used :

So what do we take it to be? Biblical scholars have debated this question for almost as long as there have been biblical scholars. Many Christians, particularly those of a more evangelical persuasion, assume that the Kingdom of Heaven means the place you go when you die—if you’ve been “saved.” But the problem with this interpretation is that Jesus himself specifically contradicts it when he says, “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you” (that is, here) and “at hand” (that is, now). It’s not later, but lighter—some more subtle quality or dimension of experience accessible to you right in the moment. You don’t die into it; you awaken into it.

I don’t claim to know what the authors thoughts are, but it seems to me the use of the word is there to describe what Jesus was actually saying. The author seems to say that most Christians believe that the Kingdom is inherited after death, not before. But Jesus actually says that the Kingdom is here now and within each person.

I am very curious. What is wrong with believing that Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity?

There is nothing wrong with this, I don’t think the mediation suggests it.

 

[grannymh]

I am very curious. What is wrong with believing that Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity?

Personally, the Meditation gives me the feeling that Jesus Christ is subject to human standards and human preferences as His Divinity is set aside. This is especially clear when the Meditation dissolves the Kingdom of Heaven by turning it into a metaphor.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Personally, the Meditation gives me the feeling that Jesus Christ is subject to human standards and human preferences as His Divinity is set aside. This is especially clear when the Meditation dissolves the Kingdom of Heaven by turning it into a metaphor.

Doesn’t “Kingdom of Heaven” have to be a metaphor? It is not like the United Kingdom or any other kingdom as we know them where one gains access with a passport. What kind of kingdom is like a mustard seed? This is a Kingdom wherever God is recognized as “King”. Bu t even “king” is metaphor un;ess one thinks God is literally sitting on a throne with a crown. These are ways to help us talk about God and what God means to us. How else can we describe our experience of God and thousands of years of experience?

 

[ThisOne]

The kingdom of God (or Heaven) is a kingdom where God is the King. If—and only if—He is King of our hearts, His kingdom is indeed within us. But where else the kingdom is we do not at this point know.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

The kingdom of God (or Heaven) is a kingdom where God is the King. If—and only if—He is King of our hearts, His kingdom is indeed within us. But where else the kingdom is we do not at this point know.

A kingdom of ther heart. But then the “heart” is also a metaphor for the core of our being.

 

[Galnextdoor]

Doesn’t “Kingdom of Heaven” have to be a metaphor? It is not like the United Kingdom or any other kingdom as we know them where one gains access with a passport. What kind of kingdom is like a mustard seed? This is a Kingdom wherever God is recognized as “King”. Bu t even “king” is metaphor un;ess one thinks God is literally sitting on a throne with a crown. These are ways to help us talk about God and what God means to us. How else can we describe our experience of God and thousands of years of experience?

The Kingdom of God is a metaphor if you consider the Church to be a metaphor. The Kingdom of God is the Church, which consists of all the people living and dead who faithfully follow Jesus’ teachings. A soul who devotes itself to the will of God is truly in the Kingdom of God. When we die, we will become part of the communion of the saints and be eternally in union with God’s presence, which is the completion of the Kingdom of God. All the faithful will be united in a way we could never dream of on earth. When you think about it, it sheds a whole new light on “Love your neighbor.” If you are going to be connected with that neighbor for all eternity, you better learn to love her.

 

[Galnextdoor]

A kingdom of ther heart. But then the “heart” is also a metaphor for the core of our being.

Heart is symbol of love. It is sometimes used to mean soul. “Core of my being” is the English translation of the Hindu Sanskrit term “Aham Bhramasmia”. “Core of my being” means motto that you live by.

 

[ThisOne]

A kingdom of ther heart. But then the “heart” is also a metaphor for the core of our being.

Everything is a metaphor, I think, when we get down to the root of human perception.

 

[ThisOne]

Heart is symbol of love. It is sometimes used to mean soul. “Core of my being” is the English translation of the Hindu Sanskrit term “Aham Bhramasmia”. “Core of my being” means motto that you live by.

Core of my being doesn’t mean a motto that one lives by. It means the center of one’s being, like the core of an apple is the center.

 

[grannymh]

Everything is a metaphor, I think, when we get down to the root of human perception.

What about the root of God’s perception?

 

[ThisOne]

What about the root of God’s perception?

What do you mean by “God’s perception”?