In relation to the thread topic, Traveller, are you purporting that the Catholic Church cannot be the one, true church because these members of it have sinned against God and man?
Yes, but not water baptism. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is the only baptism that saves. You are baptized with the Holy Spirit upon belief in the Gospel and repentance. So that goes back to what God says about joining the church… believe and repent.
So you’re saying God is wrong when He said “whosoever believeth”?Wrong: Jesus said to do all that he commands. That involves obeying what he said as per John 6:27- (to the end). “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you…”
It involves being a member of the Church he established (as per Matthew 16:18). After all, why would he establish a visible, infallible Church and then tell you it is not necessary to be a member thereof?? Is that logical?? More importantly, does that sound like Jesus??
Believing and repenting are the 1st step… and the 2nd and 3rd because we are sinners till the day we die… But sometimes I’ve found that its virtually impossible to do either one. The Church helps people to overcome that kind of thing (true, people have to cooperate…)
We are human beings, remember?? We need HELP… That is why Jesus Christ established a HELPING Church!! A powerful Church - more powerful than ourselves, more powerful than human beings (pastors, etc…)… Pastors may fail, but the Church never does.
As stated elsewhere in the forum: St. Catherine of Siennasaid (soemthing to the effect that) the Church and Jesus are one and the same…
This is off topic here, I think believers. Unless you are asserting that there may be one, true church that does not follow Jesus commandment to baptize. You are in error about baptism being salvific, but this is covered in a lot of other threads already. I suggest you type baptism into the search, so you can find them easier.
Very true - i agree. But don’t u think that SOME good has come from Protestant churches? I mean, they ARE more “sociable”… and maybe their simplification of the basic truths of the faith is a good thing… (at least in some ways??).
He meant BELIEVE EVERYTHING that he taught, not just pick and choose…
Your statement contadicts John 3:3 where it speaks of being baptized with water AND the Holy spirit - and in the same scripture says that “baptism… saves”.
Actually, i’ve heard it from 2 reliable sources, that the incidence of pedophilia is higher in the Protestant community… Not hard to believe, either, since a lot of them believe once-saved-always s…
Wasn’t the manna bread from heaven that the Israelites physically ate ?? Why would Jesus take bread, say the blessing, broke the bread and say, “Take this all of you and eat it, this is my body.”?? Would He make the new bread from heaven lower than the manna of the Old Teatament? Seems to me that Jesus elevated everything within the New Covenant. Priest to eternal High Priest, Kings to King of Kings, Prophets to Prophecy fulfilled. Why would He lower the meaning of the Passover meal with symbolism?? The passover lamb was eaten and so is the Lamb of God…God Bless…teachccd
The Early Church fathers believed unanimously that John 3:5 referred to water baptism as being necessary for salvation. Check your resources. These are the guys who acknowledged the Sacred Scripture that you misinterpret to fault the very Church who gave them to you…God Bless…teachccd
Believe and follow…
Of course I can agree to that. The Catholic Church teaches that the Holy Spirit uses these ecclesiastical communities as well. During my sojourn in Protestant circles and seminary, I learned a vast amount, specifically about scripture. I can testify that good has come of it, at least for myself. That in no way can offset the damage done by the lack of unity in Christ’s body.
Such arrogance to think your church fathers can override God. Whosoever believes means whosoever believes. And to actually think your church fathers gave us God’s Word is such arrogance. Water baptism does not save. Why don’t you prove it?The Early Church fathers believed unanimously that John 3:5 referred to water baptism as being necessary for salvation. Check your resources. These are the guys who acknowledged the Sacred Scripture that you misinterpret to fault the very Church who gave them to you…God Bless…teachccd
Believe and follow? Where did you get that from?Believe and follow…
It’s in the First Letter of Peter. It says “Baptism now saves you.” Which, by the way, is part of the Bible. (Every word of the Bible is for our salvation: the Bible does not contain any “filler” or “non-essentials.”)
False. Why don’t you finish the verse?
Look, I can see that we’re going to get into a game of “Yes it is,” “No it isn’t” ad nauseum.
Yes, it is about the Holy Spirit. But you must believe and repent to be baptized by the Holy Spirit. Your infant baptism is wrong. Babies cannot believe or repent.
believers, you really do not present as a person who is here to learn. You have a hostile tone to your posts. Of course the church Fathers did not “override God”. They preserved carefully the traditions that were handed down to them from the Apostles, both in writing and by word of mouth. One of the things they taught us is not to take one phrase of scripture in isolation from all the others. If Jesus did not want us to be baptized, why did He set us His own example? Why did He have His apostles baptizing? Why did He command it to be done?