Do you ever feel sorry for Judas Iscariot?

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But did Judas repent in the way we sometimes think? “Repent” can also simply mean “regret”. Why did he regret? Did he realize he had sunk himself in the eyes of men only and seek to regain a better role than he had exposed himself to be playing?

Remember, his signal to the temple’s men was to give Jesus a kiss. It was not to walk up and say "there he is! Arrest him!

But Jesus saw through the whole thing and exposed him as a betrayer.

Judas then sought to regain the approval of men. He did not, it appears, seek the forgiveness of God. I do not take his attempt to return the money as real repentence, but as a vain attempt to return to an earthly status he had before being exposed by the truth of God.

This reminds me a bit of MacBeth, which is the story of a betrayer of his master for his own gain as well as a story of the willing embrace of deceit. MacBeth willingly chooses to be deceived by the infernal powers represented by the witches. He rejects Providence notwithstanding that Providence has treated him kindly, and tries to become his own “god”; the master of his own fate, regardless of the increasingly bloody acts that role led him to. At each evil step, he rejected the Providence of God and adhered to the promptings of evil.

At the climax, when MacBeth’s fate is evident to him, he wants to be let off. “Lay off MacDuff”, he cries. MacDuff offers him the conditions of true repentence, by which he might be redeemed and live. He must give up his ill-gained, therefore false, crown. He must expose himself as a humbled wrongdoer and do temporal penance. But MacBeth rejects true repentence, deliberately returns to the infernal deceit of the witches by which he “made himself king” and says: “Then lay on, MacDuff and damned be he who first cries 'Hold! Enough!”

Remembering as we do that he, indeed, was the one who first cried “Hold!” “Enough!”, his rejection of repentence is his knowingly going to his own death, and his willing acceptance of damnation. Chilling.

(I have always thought Shakespeare was Catholic, and this play is part of the reason I thought it.)
 
Pure nonsense. You wouldn’t happen to have a modern reference for this, would you?
Yes: this is from the Compendium of the Catechism, which was released within the past five years or so.
  1. What purpose do the precepts of the Church have?
2041
2048
The five precepts of the Church are meant to guarantee for the faithful the indispensable minimum in the spirit of prayer, the sacramental life, moral commitment and growth in love of God and neighbor.
  1. What are the precepts of the Church?
2042-2043
They are: 1) to attend Mass on Sundays and other holy days of obligation and to refrain from work and activities which could impede the sanctification of those days; 2) to confess one’s sins, receiving the sacrament of Reconciliation at least once each year; 3) to receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season; 4) to abstain from eating meat and to observe the days of fasting established by the Church; and 5) to help to provide for the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.
There are a lot of people who seem to be under the impression that the rule against working on Sundays went away along with the Blue Law. Obviously, this doesn’t pertain to people who do necessary work like medical care, fire fighting, etc., but there are also a lot of people who appear to think that running out of paper or candy bars is an emergency on par with a fire or a heart attack - at least, judging by the fact that they keep their paper stores and candy stores open on Sundays, it would seem that they think so.

I read a statistic in the United Church Observer one time that if everyone who considers himself or herself to be a Christian were to refrain from unnecessary shopping on Sundays, the stores would close and the employees would be able to go to Church. 🙂
 
My opinion of Judas’ repentance and suicide is that it was Satan’s final victory over him, and of course, it was done by deception. This “repentance”, as another poster said, was guilt, not true repentance which leads to a change of heart, and Satan is a master at playing upon our guilt; Judas did not have the true faith in Jesus that would allow him to seek and receive forgiveness, thus he subjected himself to despair, a favorite tool of Satan, to lead him to commit suicide–his final victory over Judas which ensured that Judas would never have the opportunity for true repentance and forgiveness. This final rejection of God’s mercy and forgiveness, this final impenitence, is most likely blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the only unforgiveable sin. No wonder Jesus said it was better for him never to have been born.

Jesus said that one cannot serve two masters, and that is the sad story of Judas.
 
My opinion of Judas’ repentance and suicide is that it was Satan’s final victory over him, and of course, it was done by deception. This “repentance”, as another poster said, was guilt, not true repentance which leads to a change of heart, and Satan is a master at playing upon our guilt; Judas did not have the true faith in Jesus that would allow him to seek and receive forgiveness, thus he subjected himself to despair, a favorite tool of Satan, to lead him to commit suicide–his final victory over Judas which ensured that Judas would never have the opportunity for true repentance and forgiveness. This final rejection of God’s mercy and forgiveness, this final impenitence, is most likely blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the only unforgiveable sin. No wonder Jesus said it was better for him never to have been born.

Jesus said that one cannot serve two masters, and that is the sad story of Judas.
I totally agree to you CB Catholic , really great answer !
I believe that Judas was never forgiven as our Lord Jesus himself referred to him as the “son of perdition” which could have only meant that he was Hell Bound from the beginning . Also I do believe he repented himself (when he changed his mind ) but I do not believe he asked for forgiveness. I believe repentance is necessary for salvation to take place and Judas never repented . When we pray for poor souls in Hell , we pray for him too , but Judas belong to Hell , being the son of perdition .
 
I have never prayed for anyone in hell…I have prayed for souls in purgatory

What good will a prayer do for someone in hell?
 
I have never prayed for anyone in hell…I have prayed for souls in purgatory

What good will a prayer do for someone in hell?
mea culpa redrosetea : in Purgatory … you’re right

I shall add one prayer for the poor souls ( in Purgatory ) from my prayer book : “Eternal Father, I offer You the most Precious Blood of Your Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the Masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal Church, those in my home and within my own family. Amen.”
 
Do you consider the fact that every time you accept wages for working on a Sunday or a Holy Day of Obligation, you’ve done what Judas Iscariot did? And probably for less than he got, too!! :eek:
Do you know how wrong this is, jmcrae? Priests from the most liberal to the most reactionary have told me in the Confessional that because I have no choice but to work on most Sundays and any Holy Day of Obligation that does not fall on a Wednesday, that I do not sin for having to do so.

I am insulted that you have made that connection above. Offer me a job at my current earnings, and I will gladly go work for you.

Until then, please reconsider your sincere but off-base remark.
 
Do you know how wrong this is, jmcrae? Priests from the most liberal to the most reactionary have told me in the Confessional that because I have no choice but to work on most Sundays and any Holy Day of Obligation that does not fall on a Wednesday, that I do not sin for having to do so.
If you are being forced against your will, then it is not *your *sin, but the sin of the person who is forcing you.
 
According to the book, “Begone Satan”, by Carl Vogl, on page 18 and 19… it is written that Judas Escariot is a demon in hell. He comes to earth to get people to commit suicide by hanging themselves like he did. He said he doesn’t believe in God.
 
I have always felt sorry for Judas. I don’t fully understand why God would create a soul and dog-ear it for certain condemnation. I look at Judas like an actor in a play doing his part. I sincerely hope that he is forgiven and now with God.

What if Judas had NOT betrayed Jesus? Would Jesus have been found and crucified anyway? Probably so. Why was Judas so essential to this?

There is so much we don’t know or understand.
 
I have always felt sorry for Judas. I don’t fully understand why God would create a soul and dog-ear it for certain condemnation. I look at Judas like an actor in a play doing his part. I sincerely hope that he is forgiven and now with God.

What if Judas had NOT betrayed Jesus? Would Jesus have been found and crucified anyway? Probably so. Why was Judas so essential to this?

There is so much we don’t know or understand.
We can think of Judas in the reverse terms that we think of the Blessed Mother. It was known to God before time that Mary would answer “yes” to the angel in regards to being the mother of Jesus. As a result, she received anticipatory grace allowing her to be born without sin. Judas, on the other hand, was known to God before time to be the one who would, of his own free will, betray Jesus to the Jews. The actions of both Mary and Judas were known to God before He even created the universe. They both, however, had free will and were able to make a complete choice as to their reaction in their own unique situation. Mary chose good, Judas evil. Just because his decision was known to God before hand doesn’t mean that he didn’t freely chose it. So in the true sense he wasn’t “dog-eared” for condemnation; as you said, he was like an actor playing his part. His problem was that he freely chose the part to play.

It is hard to understand how someone could have seen the face of Jesus and yet chose evil over good but the sad fact of the matter is that people do this on a daily basis.
 
Yes: this is from the Compendium of the Catechism, which was released within the past five years or so.

There are a lot of people who seem to be under the impression that the rule against working on Sundays went away along with the Blue Law. Obviously, this doesn’t pertain to people who do necessary work like medical care, fire fighting, etc., but there are also a lot of people who appear to think that running out of paper or candy bars is an emergency on par with a fire or a heart attack - at least, judging by the fact that they keep their paper stores and candy stores open on Sundays, it would seem that they think so.

I read a statistic in the United Church Observer one time that if everyone who considers himself or herself to be a Christian were to refrain from unnecessary shopping on Sundays, the stores would close and the employees would be able to go to Church. 🙂
I think you are misinterpreting the follow precept: to attend Mass on Sundays and other holy days of obligation and to refrain from work and activities which could impede the sanctification of those days

Of course the key words here are which could impeded the sanctification. If we were to adhere a strict literal interpretation of this, then one could even be forbidden to turn the tv on Sunday afternoon because the football game could turn one’s mind away from all things holy. The same can be said for cooking Sunday dinner, washing the car or raking the leaves.

The common interpretation of this is usually unnecessary work, meaning things done to make extra money over and above what is needed for our daily bread. For farmers, it may be necessary to get the crops worked; for accountants, necessary to get ready for tax season; for families, it may be the day when the washing and cleaning get done. There can be dozens of activities that need working on Sundays because it is the only time available to get them done. But to equate working on Sunday with the betrayal of Judas is simply absurd. Some work on Sunday because they must; no one ever must betray the Lord.
 
I know I am wicked ,but there are things I still wouldn’t consider

Selling Jesus for silver is about as bad as it gets…I am not saint… but I might deny Christ as Peter did, under the circumstances he was in, but I wouldn’t hand him over to be murdered for money…
Would you do drastic things to people close to you in a rash emotional moment? Like… call your sister something awful and hit her because for that moment you are upset? People do things they don’t mean when they were in the heat of emotion.

Judas wanted Christ to be a warrior- take on Rome. Maybe in one moment of anger or disappointment he made a fatal mistake…

It’s very tragic. I do pity him. Perhaps he could have repented had he not hung himself… but than maybe in that last moment he did… who knows…
 
What if Judas had NOT betrayed Jesus? Would Jesus have been found and crucified anyway? Probably so. Why was Judas so essential to this?
He wasn’t; he always had the choice to believe and obey. Which makes the whole thing even sadder, I think. 😦
 
How do you line this claim up with Scripture?
xodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates;
Exodus 20:11 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

Exodus 31:13 "Say to the people of Israel, 'You shall keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exodus 31:14 You shall keep the sabbath, because it is holy for you; every one who profanes it shall be put to death; whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exodus 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall be put to death.

Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy sabbath of solemn rest to the LORD; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death;
Exodus 35:3 you shall kindle no fire in all your habitations on the sabbath day."
Exodus 35:4 Moses said to all the congregation of the people of Israel, "This is the thing which the LORD has commanded.

Numbers 15:32 While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day.
Numbers 15:33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation.
Numbers 15:34 They put him in custody, because it had not been made plain what should be done to him.
Numbers 15:35 And the LORD said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.”
Numbers 15:36 And all the congregation brought him outside the camp, and stoned him to death with stones, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Deuteronomy 5:12 "'Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deuteronomy 5:13 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work;
Deuteronomy 5:14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, or your manservant, or your maidservant, or your ox, or your ***, or any of your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your manservant and your maidservant may rest as well as you.

Nehemiah 13:15 In those days I saw in Judah men treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in heaps of grain and loading them on asses; and also wine, grapes, figs, and all kinds of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day; and I warned them on the day when they sold food.

etc., etc., etc. …

I also remember from my Chatechism at Primary School (some forty odd years ago) something along the lines of: “thou shalt not do servile work on the Sabbath Day” …

So, I agree with the writer: too often, what are specific directives of the Catholic religion are ignored on the grounds of their being not practically applicable (for that, read: “inconvenient”) in the “modern” world …

“But Jesus cast out the devil and pulled corn on the Sabbath …” is the usual argument in defence of the other opionon … but what Jesus did (and what the Bible dialogue has him direct -at least by my reading of it-) is that, in cases of dire emergency, it is permissible to break this Commandment.

What I believe JMcrae is alluding to (entirely appropriatlely, in my view) is the “routine” work that people do on Sundays, making Sunday no “special” day (as it was commanded to be by God), and, again, I would refer to my memory of my Chatechism: Thou shalt not do serville work on the Sabbath Day" …

And, I feel, what this writer points out is not only pertinent, but concerning … If you are playing Monopoly and just leave out the rules of the game that do not suit, are you really playing Monoopoly?

God Bless

William
 
Thank you, William - you understood my point perfectly.

And the essence of my point is that, not only is it not “impossible” to sin like Judas Iscariot - most of us do it on a regular basis.
 
What a bizarre statement! Tell that to my sick patients that need someone to care for them 24/7. Oh, you’ll just have to lay there and wait until tomorrow to get your meds, to have your pain relieved, to change your dirty bed, to get any food or water because if I come to work and do these things, I’m betraying Jesus like Judas did. Sorry, I can’t do that.

The Church does not teach what you have stated. It is sometimes necessary to work on Sundays, and yes, it is just to get paid for it.
To a point, I agree with you (see my previous post), but “and yes, get paid for it”? … does that not, strictly speaking, mean benefitting from very special circmstances in which it is pemissable to dispense sith a Comandment?

And, again strictly speaking, does that not mean an abuse of that “special dispensation”?

I read Jesus Christ’s words and actions (and their implications) as agreeing with Jmcrae and myself …

God Bless

William
 
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