Do you ever feel sorry for Judas Iscariot?

[Mark_Robert]

If Judas is in hell, it’s his own fault. God’s judgement is always just and true. Whoever ends up there, deserves it.

 

[cheeto1]

I do. I think he made a mistake. I think He wanted Jesus to
show His true power as Son of God to the Pharisees so he could laugh at them while he counted his money.

I also wonder what would have happened if the apostles had
refused to run away, would they all have been crucified together
like St. Paul Miki and Companions from Japan?

 

[zab]

I used to struggle with the story of Judas Iscariot. As I came to understand it, Judas’s greatest sin was not that he betrayed Jesus. It was his refusal to believe that he could be forgiven, which was a sin against the Holy Spirit. He put the limit on his own salvation, not God. Sufficient grace was there for Judas to be saved but he did not respond to that grace. And we do have to respond.

 

[debraran]

That’s true Zab, but they didn’t really “get it”. They didn’t know exactly what was going to happen to him. My priest said today AFTER he rose, they got what he meant in the Temple, when he threw everyone out and said he could raise it in 3 days…he meant him, not the building. If they really understood what was going to happen, who could sleep?? Judas was so sure he would fight back, he knew he would have, he immediately repented. The feeling in his gut when he saw him peacefully go off must of killed him…he knew he wouldn’t be let go even more than the others. And maybe that’s when the devil left him and he really wasn’t possesed anymore if that part is literal.That part is scary too…to not be in full control of yourself and then see what you did.
Thomas doubted even after he rose…somehow I think Judas wouldn’t have…but he doubted his own salvation. We struggle with that today, not quite getting the sin of it then really wasn’t clear. You have to be in a bad mental place to commit suicide and do it so quicky, he couldn’t have really known entirely what he was doing.

 

[zab]

That’s true Zab, but they didn’t really “get it”. They didn’t know exactly what was going to happen to him. My priest said today AFTER he rose, they got what he meant in the Temple, when he threw everyone out and said he could raise it in 3 days…he meant him, not the building. If they really understood what was going to happen, who could sleep?? Judas was so sure he would fight back, he knew he would have, he immediately repented. The feeling in his gut when he saw him peacefully go off must of killed him…he knew he wouldn’t be let go even more than the others. And maybe that’s when the devil left him and he really wasn’t possesed anymore if that part is literal.That part is scary too…to not be in full control of yourself and then see what you did.
Thomas doubted even after he rose…somehow I think Judas wouldn’t have…but he doubted his own salvation. We struggle with that today, not quite getting the sin of it then really wasn’t clear. You have to be in a bad mental place to commit suicide and do it so quicky, he couldn’t have really known entirely what he was doing.

When my brother was 28 years old, he was crop dusting a field that had high power lines crossing it. His plane hit the lines that sliced the cockpit off and decapitated him. He was killed instantly. I was not comforted by the comments of mourners at his funeral who said that he was in heaven. My brother was not a practicing Catholic at the time. So his salvation was of great concern to me. I had questions like: Was there a split second of time in which he could have repented? and so on. It took about 10 years for me to come to any peace about my brother’s death. At that time, the questions about Judas troubled me as well. Was he doomed to die before he was even born? Certainly Jesus loved Judas. He chose him as one of his apostles. Certainly he must have prayed for him. Jesus would not hold a grudge against Judas becasue he knew what he was about to do. Didn’t Jesus come to save souls even those like Judas? and so on.

None of us knows for certain the fate of Judas Iscariot. Only God know for certain. However. we do have some indication, when Jesus said, “…Better for him had he never been born.”
But none us us fully understands the power of God. Time is not an obstical with God.
I finally came to a certain peace regarding my brothers death when I finally understood that God loves my brother more that I could possibly love him, and he would never abandon him. God’s grace IS sufficient for us. But in the end, the choice is ours.

 

[debraran]

I feel for you, I lost a friend to suicide years ago, but then something happened when visiting his grave and I just knew he was okay. As I said in an Oct. 31 post on this thread, many, many saints say the same thing, we are all given a chance to repent, seconds to God is more than ours. Trust Jesus…
Judas was to be hated by many, Jesus knew that, he knew it was better he wasn’t born. But Jesus also told him to do what he must and quickly…and they mentioned the devil entering him.
Jesus had human feelings also and of course would feel betrayed and dread what he knew was coming. Hopefully we’ll all be in heaven one day (albeit undeserving) and you’ll see your brother and I’ll see my friend and maybe we can chat with a much repented Judas too!

 

[zab]

I feel for you, I lost a friend to suicide years ago, but then something happened when visiting his grave and I just knew he was okay. As I said in an Oct. 31 post on this thread, many, many saints say the same thing, we are all given a chance to repent, seconds to God is more than ours. Trust Jesus…
Judas was to be hated by many, Jesus knew that, he knew it was better he wasn’t born. But Jesus also told him to do what he must and quickly…and they mentioned the devil entering him.
Jesus had human feelings also and of course would feel betrayed and dread what he knew was coming. Hopefully we’ll all be in heaven one day (albeit undeserving) and you’ll see your brother and I’ll see my friend and maybe we can chat with a much repented Judas too!

I just wanted to point out that St. Jude, (otherwise known as Judas, not Iscariot) is the patron saint of those in despair. He is believed to be a relative, perhaps a cousin of Jesus. St. Jude’s prayers and intercessions are very powerful with God perhaps as a reward or favor because he was often mistaken for Judas Iscariot, and suffered greatly the misjudgements against him.

 

[OHIOWA]

Not really, because when you think about it had Judas not done what he, by scripture, did we would not have bveen saved. Scripture said that Jesus would be betrayed by one of his own and Judas was the one. And as I see it Judas wasn’t aware thet it was him until the devil entered him and, can we say, “forced” him to “fullfill scripture”.

Actually, if you think about it, both the blessed Mother and Judas did their part in fullfilling scripture and assuring our salvation.

Peace

 

[zab]

Not really, because when you think about it had Judas not done what he, by scripture, did we would not have bveen saved. Scripture said that Jesus would be betrayed by one of his own and Judas was the one. And as I see it Judas wasn’t aware thet it was him until the devil entered him and, can we say, “forced” him to “fullfill scripture”.

Actually, if you think about it, both the blessed Mother and Judas did their part in fullfilling scripture and assuring our salvation.

Peace

I don’t believe that Judas’s betrayal was necessary for our salvation. It was in the Scriptures because God knows all things and He knew that Judas would betray him and so it was prophesyd (sp). I think this gets a little difficult in trying to explain or understand this. I don’t think it was that Judas had a role and he had to fulfill it. Rather, it was God who knew what choice he would make. The fact that it was in Scripture did not force Judas to do what he did. But looking back we can see that the prophesies were fulfilled.

 

[debraran]

I see your point, but the reason the Vatican is looking into it again, is that there is reason to be kinder in thought.
If it was “a done deal” why mention the devil entering him, his instant remorse, and why tell him to go “do what he had to do?” If Jesus told me to do something, I think I’d be confused if it wasn’t to be. Maybe Judas thought he understood what he wanted and finally changed his thought (we fool ourselves all the time)
Judas didn’t kill Christ, he didn’t arrest him, torture him or kill him…Jesus wasn’t going to hide the rest of his life, this had to happen. Judas never wanted the money…I hate when others say that, that’s why the money was tossed. I think out of all of them, he understood his majesty the best, but thought of it in earthly ways. That, especially at the time, wasn’t unusual…the others saw miracles, and still didn’t really get it. Peter, of course was different, he was scared, but he knew who he was.
And “Forgive them Father, they know not what they do” could have included Judas also.

 

[doubleB]

Engrained in my mind from my childhood learning in the Roman Catholic faith is:

God is Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent;

and,

All our actions are pre-ordained.

God destined Judas “to betray Jesus”.

Judas is just an instrument in God’s plan.

 

[thistle]

Engrained in my mind from my childhood learning in the Roman Catholic faith is:

God is Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent;

and,

**All our actions are pre-ordained.

God destined Judas “to betray Jesus”.

Judas is just an instrument in God’s plan**.

I don’t know who taught you that but it is not Catholic teaching at all.
That would mean nobody has free will.

 

[debraran]

Actually the church teaches both…and admits it’s confusing…they say you should leave it up to God and you’ll know when you die, how much was known, not known, etc.

Fr. Serpa on this site answered a question about Judas saying he could have repented as he hung himself and no one should say he is in hell. He gave a link to the New Advent…this is the last paragraph on Judas:
In his fall is left a warning that even the great grace of the Apostolate and the familiar friendship of Jesus may be of no avail to one who is unfaithful. And, though nothing should be allowed to palliate the guilt of the great betrayal, it may become more intelligible if we think of it as the outcome of gradual failing in lesser things. So again the repentance may be taken to imply that the traitor deceived himself by a false hope that after all Christ might pass through the midst of His enemies as He had done before at the brow of the mountain. (Luke 4:29) And though the circumstances of the death of the traitor give reason to fear the worst, the Sacred Text does not distinctly reject the possibility of real repentance. And Origen strangely supposed that Judas hanged himself in order to seek Christ in the other world and ask His pardon (In Matt., tract. xxxv).

Another priest, Fr. Levis answered it this way (question below)…the only way we really have, you can hope (you should never judge someone to be in hell) and then hope you can see either way!
Question from gabrielle on 07-01-2006:
I know there have been questions about Judas I’ve read in these columns, but sometimes I’m surprised how certain some say Judas was damned. I’ve met many priests that say, they will not be surprised to see him in heaven or hear he went to hell, no one really knows.As a little child I always thought he was saved (with childhood logic) because he seemed so sorry and didn’t understand Jesus at all.(not that many did) I thought when Jesus said he would of been better not born, he meant, that everyone would hate him in history. Later, John Paul II, (whom I still miss dearly) said in “Crossing the Threshold of Hope”, “Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, “It would be better for that man if he had never been born” (Mt 26:24), His words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation.”(quote/unquote) I loved the goodness and mercy this pope had, especially with other faiths. In reading his older books and about his childhood, he was truly a special man. If he says, there is hope, I will hope for him too.
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 07-01-2006:
Dear Gabrielle, You have a great big heart! I too hope Judas is saved, but we all must trust in the big heart of the Savior for this. Fr./ Bob Levis

 

[azjanet]

St. Therese of Lisieux asserted that every person in hell is a volunteer; specifically a volunteer for hell, and not only metaphorically. She likened it to refusing God’s forgiveness and choosing to live within ourselves for all eternity, worshipping ourselves, knowing all the while how inadequate we are as gods and how miserable it would be. Hard to picture anyone doing that, but it’s imaginable. Judas might well have done that, and if St. Therese is right, that’s exactly what he did.

We “volunteer for hell” when we do not repent of our sins after we disobey God’s commandments. “He who endures to the end (in sanctifying grace) shall be saved.” (Matthew 10:22) God is always ready to forgive us if we are sorry for our sins; however, we must “bear fruits worthy of repentance” after we are forgiven in order to be saved (Luke 3:8) because on Judgment Day we are judged by our “fruits,” not just our “belief” that Jesus will save us. (2 Thessalonians 1:8, 1 Peter 4:17, Matthew 25:32-46)

“Good Fruits” prove that we have a saving faith. Bad fruits or no fruits prove that we do not have a saving faith. (Revelation 3:15-20)

Peter repented of his betrayal of Christ and became the head of the Church. Judas despaired after his betrayal of Christ (he didn’t believe that God’s mercy was greater than his sin) and so he killed himself instead of repenting as Peter did.

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

I sometimes even pray that the Lord will have mercy on Judas, and I still hold out hope for his salvation, as I do for Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, and those of their ilk. Frankly, I think it’s a crime not to have at least a little hope for even the most reviled of sinners, because we simply can’t know. Nor is it our place to know this side of eternity.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[azjanet]

This is private revelation but shortly after Jesus’ death on the cross, in Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich’s book The Life of Jesus Christ and Biblical Revelations, Volume IV, page 353, it states: “When the gates [of hell] were swung open by the angels, one beheld before him a struggling, blaspheming, mocking, howling, and lamenting throng. I saw that Jesus spoke some words to the soul of Judas.”

 

[sskelly]

Yes, all the time. Especially after seeing him portrayed in Passion of the Christ.

 

[Germany]

I for one believe Judas went to Heaven. Why you ask? When the time came for Judas to betray Jesus, Judas’ free will was removed by God so that Satan could enter into Judas. In other words, God used Judas to accomplish His purpose and to fulfill prophecy. As Judas’ reward, he was allowed to enter Heaven. Forget about the fact he tried suicide, it was permitted. Had Judas free will, he would not have betrayed Jesus as He brought in money. Judas needed money. God somewhere along the way gave Judas his free will back to see what he would do with the 30 pieces of silver, to see if he had a greedy heart knowing what he did to Jesus. He knew and threw the money back to those who gave it to him. Those who gave Judas the money were just as guilty. They were co-defendants (for lack of a better description), yet they were not punished by God.

 

[debraran]

I always thought it odd, that no one thought it was impossible for him to forgive all the ones that tortured him, laughed at him, etc. but not someone who admited Jesus was “innocent” and felt bad about it. Judas knew the moment they led him away, that was it, he wasn’t going to defend himself later…he understood more than the others, but "the holy spriit " and all that wasn’t known to them yet or forgiveness. The devil could tempt Judas in a way that he couldn’t touch with Jesus.
I don’t believe many Saints visions, they differ so much, sometimes, (as with St.Emmerich) I heard them say on EWTN she had things that conflicted with church teaching. The priest said you can pick and choose, but that’s why the church says you don’t have to believe in it. If it helps you fine, but know they can and may be wrong. You have other saints praying for Judas, I read of someone who said he was in heaven…you can’t go on that…which is why John Paul ll said what he did.

 

[azjanet]

I for one believe Judas went to Heaven. Why you ask? When the time came for Judas to betray Jesus, Judas’ free will was removed by God so that Satan could enter into Judas. In other words, God used Judas to accomplish His purpose and to fulfill prophecy. As Judas’ reward, he was allowed to enter Heaven. Forget about the fact he tried suicide, it was permitted. Had Judas free will, he would not have betrayed Jesus as He brought in money. Judas needed money. God somewhere along the way gave Judas his free will back to see what he would do with the 30 pieces of silver, to see if he had a greedy heart knowing what he did to Jesus. He knew and threw the money back to those who gave it to him. Those who gave Judas the money were just as guilty. They were co-defendants (for lack of a better description), yet they were not punished by God.

Judas always had free will. God just knew what Judas was going to do before he was even born. The Bible prophecies were in line with the ultimate free will of Judas’ actions (in the future, time-wise). The prophecies did not determine Judas’ choices, Judas did, using his own free will. God did not force Judas into betraying Jesus just as He did not force Adam and Eve to disobey Him nor did He force some of the angels to disobey Him so that we would have Lucifer and other fallen angels to tempt us.

See http:members.cox.net/studyhisword /FreeWill.pdf for a Bible study on Free Will. Also a Bible Study on Predestination at http:members.cox.net/studyhisword/Predestined.pdf