Do you ever lie to your children?

[Trurl]

I bet you do… all the time. When your child asks about the Christmas presents, you tell them that they were delivered by Santa Claus - and you know that it is a shameless LIE. When the kid asks how the babies are born, you probably say something about the “cabbage patch” and do not tell about the clinical detail of intra-vaginal intercourse. In other words, you LIE. Do you enlighten your kids that the Easter Bunny is not real, that it is just another LIE. When your kid is due to have a vaccine-shot, do you tell them: “yes, honey, it will hurt”… or do you LIE to them?

But LIES are a sin.You are not supposed to lie, at all… ever. Do you go and confess that you lied to your children? Do you make a solemn promise not to do it again? There is no such thing as an “innocent, white lie”? Or is there? Or are the children not “entitled” to the truth, just like the Nazi interrogators, who asked about the Jews’ hiding place?

How do you reconcile your frequent lies with your professed “thou shalt not lie” commandment?

 

[Godfollower]

I’m pleased to meet you. You look great! I’m sure you mean well. You made a very impressive presentation, and I look forward to hearing from you again.

 

[Glomung]

I never lied to my kids about Santa Claus. As far as where babies came from we used the “you can learn the details when you’re older”, we didn’t let our children hound us with age inappropriate questions. They knew from the start that the Easter Bunny was nonsense.

But as to your post, the sin is in misrepresenting the truth to the harm of another, not some notion of being painstakingly literal about every word uttered.
God does not require that I tell a coworker that her dress is ugly, that would be honest, but very uncharitable.
I need not tell my wife that at times she is acts like a *%@#$$%^, for that would be unkind and foolhardy.
I am not compelled to tell my enemies ANYTHING, whether some might think it truth or not.

BTW it is “thou shalt not bear false witness”, in other words, when asked by an authority to bear witness to an occurance or circumstance, tell the truth and nothing but the truth.

Exaggerators Anonymous: A Trillion Strong and Growing

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

It appears you are not well versed in what the Church teaches about lying. From New Advent dictionary on lying

Following St. Augustine and St. Thomas, Catholic divines and ethical writers commonly make a distinction between (1) injurious, or hurtful, (2) officious, and (3) jocose lies. Jocose lies are told for the purpose of affording amusement. Of course what is said merely and obviously in joke cannot be a lie: in order to have any malice in it, what is said must be naturally capable of deceiving others and must be said with the intention of saying what is false. An officious, or white, lie is such that it does nobody any injury: it is a lie of excuse, or a lie told to benefit somebody. An injurious lie is one which does harm.

And, for the record:
–I have not informed my kids about Santa (they are too young, as one is 3 years and the other 16 months) and do not intend to. My wife & I give the gifts.
–One does not have to go into ‘clinical details of intercourse’ when saying that a child is a gift from God–I would even posit that going into those details is harmful to young children–and both my kids know that my wife is carrying our third in her belly.
–I have no intentions of telling him children about the Easter Bunny
–I have told my son (the older of the two) that the shots will hurt, but that they are good for him. I was not present for my daughter’s shots, but would have done the same
–Since I do not lie to my kids, I have not confessed it. But I would confess it if I were to do so
–Children often do not possess the capability of understanding the truths you might tell them. It would be demeaning and harmful, while likely true, to say, “You would not understand” every time that they asked a question whose answer is beyond their capability. In this manner, it is not wrong to hide the truth through telling “white lies.”

 

[Armor_of_Light]

I bet you do… all the time. When your child asks about the Christmas presents, you tell them that they were delivered by Santa Claus - and you know that it is a shameless LIE. When the kid asks how the babies are born, you probably say something about the “cabbage patch” and do not tell about the clinical detail of intra-vaginal intercourse. In other words, you LIE. Do you enlighten your kids that the Easter Bunny is not real, that it is just another LIE. When your kid is due to have a vaccine-shot, do you tell them: “yes, honey, it will hurt”… or do you LIE to them?

But LIES are a sin.You are not supposed to lie, at all… ever. Do you go and confess that you lied to your children? Do you make a solemn promise not to do it again? There is no such thing as an “innocent, white lie”? Or is there? Or are the children not “entitled” to the truth, just like the Nazi interrogators, who asked about the Jews’ hiding place?

How do you reconcile your frequent lies with your professed “thou shalt not lie” commandment?

Good try Turl, but no dice.

Santa- told them all the truth
Easter Bunny- same
Tooth fairy- same
Shots hurt, but not too bad
Babies- no problem…and no they don’t grow in mommys tummy

You have kids? You tell them there is no God? Liar.

 

[Theophorus]

I bet you do… all the time. When your child asks about the Christmas presents, you tell them that they were delivered by Santa Claus - and you know that it is a shameless LIE. When the kid asks how the babies are born, you probably say something about the “cabbage patch” and do not tell about the clinical detail of intra-vaginal intercourse. In other words, you LIE. Do you enlighten your kids that the Easter Bunny is not real, that it is just another LIE. When your kid is due to have a vaccine-shot, do you tell them: “yes, honey, it will hurt”… or do you LIE to them?

But LIES are a sin.You are not supposed to lie, at all… ever. Do you go and confess that you lied to your children? Do you make a solemn promise not to do it again? There is no such thing as an “innocent, white lie”? Or is there? Or are the children not “entitled” to the truth, just like the Nazi interrogators, who asked about the Jews’ hiding place?

How do you reconcile your frequent lies with your professed “thou shalt not lie” commandment?

The position you put forward is more Kantian than Christian, with your absolute moral imperatives. That is a far cry from “bearing false witness against your Neighbour” which I guess you are trying to quote above. There is a difference between always and everywhere telling the truth to everyone, and to those who have a right to the truth as has been mentioned already

 

[EmilyCatholic]

The Santa thing is a tricky one. I was relieved this year when I told my (9 year old) son that Santa wasn’t real, which he had pretty much figured out himself anyway. The ‘magic’ aspect of childhood is important as children have an active imagination but yes it is a sin to lie so it’s just a case of using your best efforts to let your child come to their own, logical conclusions, which they will eventually. But the beauty of a child’s deep imagination is that they are more likely to believe in God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Angels and Saints. So it’s really important to educate your child about God at an early age, before they’re corrupted by a prideful, dry, materialistic world.

 

[dshix]

I bet you do… all the time. When your child asks about the Christmas presents, you tell them that they were delivered by Santa Claus - and you know that it is a shameless LIE. When the kid asks how the babies are born, you probably say something about the “cabbage patch” and do not tell about the clinical detail of intra-vaginal intercourse. In other words, you LIE. Do you enlighten your kids that the Easter Bunny is not real, that it is just another LIE. When your kid is due to have a vaccine-shot, do you tell them: “yes, honey, it will hurt”… or do you LIE to them?

But LIES are a sin.You are not supposed to lie, at all… ever. Do you go and confess that you lied to your children? Do you make a solemn promise not to do it again? There is no such thing as an “innocent, white lie”? Or is there? Or are the children not “entitled” to the truth, just like the Nazi interrogators, who asked about the Jews’ hiding place?

How do you reconcile your frequent lies with your professed “thou shalt not lie” commandment?

Yes, lying is a sin. No, it is not a sin to hide the details of a sexual act from your 5-year old.

The above statement may seem to be a contradiction when taken literally, but they are not. I forget the exact word used in the catechism I read, but the essential idea is that: it is not a lie to not disclose the details of something to someone who has no right to the information because of who they are or what the ‘something’ is.

For example: If you are a catholic secret agent and your nemesis captures you and interrogates you, it is not a sin to lie to him by not telling the contents of a secret document, etc.
The reason is because the person asking has no right to the information. It’s discretion.

So, to sum up, when you hide things from your kids, it’s not because of malicious intent, and it isn’t a sin to give a somewhat blurred view of the truth to them to gradually prepare them for what it really is. i.e. sex. You give your child gradually more and more clear ideas over time until they are able to take the information without it being damaging to them.

 

[Regina_Love]

Hmm we taught them about Saint Nicholas, not Santa. Told them the Easter Bunny was a fun game. We didn’t lie to our kids. I reserved the right not to answer if necessary. I never wanted to lie, and then have them think Jesus was just a made up story, or thing you out grow in adulthood. We taught them babies grew in a special place disigned by God. It’s like a water balloon they swim around in, and breath & eat through the embilical cord. Kids can grasp & learn almost anything presented to them with care. There isn’t any need to lie.

One of my pet peeves is when people say, “How are you?” When they DON’T care or want to know. Why can’t people just say Hi???

 

[Tighty_Whitey]

Permitting or fostering a child’s belief in Santa is not a sin. It is very important to develop a child’s belief in the supernatural and helps a child develop a belief and in God and a relationship with God.

 

[JDaniel]

I bet you do… all the time. When your child asks about the Christmas presents, you tell them that they were delivered by Santa Claus - and you know that it is a shameless LIE. When the kid asks how the babies are born, you probably say something about the “cabbage patch” and do not tell about the clinical detail of intra-vaginal intercourse. In other words, you LIE. Do you enlighten your kids that the Easter Bunny is not real, that it is just another LIE. When your kid is due to have a vaccine-shot, do you tell them: “yes, honey, it will hurt”… or do you LIE to them?

But LIES are a sin.You are not supposed to lie, at all… ever. Do you go and confess that you lied to your children? Do you make a solemn promise not to do it again? There is no such thing as an “innocent, white lie”? Or is there? Or are the children not “entitled” to the truth, just like the Nazi interrogators, who asked about the Jews’ hiding place?

How do you reconcile your frequent lies with your professed “thou shalt not lie” commandment?

Trurl:

The answer to your question is, “Not any more.” I find it’s easier to ask them, “Are you trying to make a liar out of me?” Then there are smiles both ways, and it usually ends the conversation. But, if they persist, then I tell them. “Now is not the time.” Or, “I’m not comfortable answering that.” And mean it.

God bless,
jd

 

[waanju]

Actual commandment is not to “bear false witness against your neighbor.” not “lie”. A lie is only a sin if it hurts someone (either directly or by depriving them of the truth). The easter bunny ect are just stories, “white lies” are lies that do not harm others in any way, and withholding information to protect others is a moral good!

 

[RHC]

Hmm we taught them about Saint Nicholas, not Santa. Told them the Easter Bunny was a fun game. We didn’t lie to our kids. I reserved the right not to answer if necessary. I never wanted to lie, and then have them think Jesus was just a made up story, or thing you out grow in adulthood. We taught them babies grew in a special place disigned by God. It’s like a water balloon they swim around in, and breath & eat through the embilical cord. Kids can grasp & learn almost anything presented to them with care. There isn’t any need to lie.

We also do the St. Nicholas thing. And we explain that it was his love of God that led him to be so generous. It also brings in a little bit of the communion of saints. My kids simply see “Santa Claus” as another name for St. Nicholas. They are the same - which is also in keeping with our cultural tradition as well.

The Easter bunny? I don’t really think our kids believe in a true Easter bunny. We focus far more on the Holy Week activities. I think our daughter just likes the idea of a fluffy, cute bunny more than she actually believes it has magical powers.

As for sex. Kids are not courts of law. They are not entitled to “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” all the time. I am pregnant with our third child. Our 7-year-old and almost 5-year-old obviously had questions. We explained that God sends children (true), that you must be married to have them (true per Church teaching), and they grow inside Mommy’s “tummy” (also true…“the uterus located in the abdominal/pelvic area” would be more precise, but what kid would get that at age 5?). Our son (the 7-year-old) had more questions. We answered what we could, but we finally told him that he would learn more as he got older. But we also assured him that we would be honest with him. He was satisfied with this answer.

It is a fallacy to assert that the truth is an all-or-nothing proposition. I do not tell everyone the details of my bank account or pay stub, for example. Am I lying? No. Do I have to tell a random stranger what the contents of my bank account are, if he or she asks? No. Most rational people would agree that intimate details like that are divulged on a need-to-know basis only. Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor.

 

[JDaniel]

Actual commandment is not to “bear false witness against your neighbor.” not “lie”. A lie is only a sin if it hurts someone (either directly or by depriving them of the truth). The easter bunny ect are just stories, “white lies” are lies that do not harm others in any way, and withholding information to protect others is a moral good!

Waanju:

Question: Do you think that when parents tell lies to their children, that their children’s spirituality is enhanced, or worsened?

I believe that a culture of lying will result in a culture that is not Holy. When parents lie to their children, they are creating a sinful culture, and their children will, more than likely, become relativistic in their own approaches to morality. When our young are persuaded into a culture of moral relativism, there is no one responsible for their failure to attain Heaven other than themselves and their parents, the people who created the culture in the first place. Wouldn’t you agree?

Not lying to our children takes effort and creativity. Once achieved, you’ll find that a child will willingly desist from pushing the envelope.

God bless,
jd

 

[dshix]

We also do the St. Nicholas thing. And we explain that it was his love of God that led him to be so generous. It also brings in a little bit of the communion of saints. My kids simply see “Santa Claus” as another name for St. Nicholas. They are the same - which is also in keeping with our cultural tradition as well.

The Easter bunny? I don’t really think our kids believe in a true Easter bunny. We focus far more on the Holy Week activities. I think our daughter just likes the idea of a fluffy, cute bunny more than she actually believes it has magical powers.

As for sex. Kids are not courts of law. They are not entitled to “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” all the time. I am pregnant with our third child. Our 7-year-old and almost 5-year-old obviously had questions. We explained that God sends children (true), that you must be married to have them (true per Church teaching), and they grow inside Mommy’s “tummy” (also true…“the uterus located in the abdominal/pelvic area” would be more precise, but what kid would get that at age 5?). Our son (the 7-year-old) had more questions. We answered what we could, but we finally told him that he would learn more as he got older. But we also assured him that we would be honest with him. He was satisfied with this answer.

It is a fallacy to assert that the truth is an all-or-nothing proposition. I do not tell everyone the details of my bank account or pay stub, for example. Am I lying? No. Do I have to tell a random stranger what the contents of my bank account are, if he or she asks? No. Most rational people would agree that intimate details like that are divulged on a need-to-know basis only. Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor.

Your post is an embodiment of how my parents did it. For my growing up: St. Nicholas = Santa Claus (the presents had both names, randomly) Easter Bunny = a weird… thing other kids believed in, and sex = (your age-appropriate explanations over time were exactly what they did! With a few more stages…)

Very funny.

 

[dshix]

Actual commandment is not to “bear false witness against your neighbor.” not “lie”. A lie is only a sin if it hurts someone (either directly or by depriving them of the truth). The easter bunny ect are just stories, “white lies” are lies that do not harm others in any way, and withholding information to protect others is a moral good!

Even “white” lies are still slightly disordered, because they disturb the natural order of truth.

Hiding information which the other party has no right to is neither of a white lie or a false witness; it is a discretion.

 

[Trurl]

I’m pleased to meet you. You look great! I’m sure you mean well. You made a very impressive presentation, and I look forward to hearing from you again.

Excellent examples.

But as to your post, the sin is in misrepresenting the truth to the harm of another, not some notion of being painstakingly literal about every word uttered.

Ahhh… so the redefinition is in full swing again. A lie is to distort something you believe is true.

BTW it is “thou shalt not bear false witness”, in other words, when asked by an authority to bear witness to an occurance or circumstance, tell the truth and nothing but the truth.

And that would be perjury… very different from a “lie”.

Permitting or fostering a child’s belief in Santa is not a sin. It is very important to develop a child’s belief in the supernatural and helps a child develop a belief and in God and a relationship with God.

Does the end now justify the means??? Very un-catholic… Of course what you say is most enlightning: “it is OK to lie to child, so he will more likely to swallow another lie…” Well said, buddy!

 

[dshix]

Trurul,

Please don’t post like a troll, even if you aren’t one.

You took snippets out of various people’s posts and refuted them with petty arguments that were out of context; please respond directly and at length to someone who gave an entire, solid argument.

Did you open this thread to ask a genuine question or rile people up?

 

[fred_conty]

This is an interesting subject because parents are running into this every Christmas.

The little child asks, “Is there a santa claus?”.

I believe in truth a parent can say “yes”, and leave it go at that not saying anything else.
Besides that is all the child wants to know, not the details.

Why can the answer be “yes”?

Because Santa means saint. Saint Clause had its origins in Saint Nicholaus whose feast we hold in the first part of December. He was a bishop in Germany who gave gifts to the poor. And from this developed the custom of giving children gifts on his name’s day. Eventually the gift giving day was changed to the day of Christmas.

So yes, there is a santa claus, and that is the truth if you understand the story behind it which need not be explained.

And a merry christmas to all (Christ = Christ’s, mas = Mass, or Christmas means Christ’s Mass), HO, HO, HO…

 

[Chris_Etzel]

I bet you do… all the time. When your child asks about the Christmas presents, you tell them that they were delivered by Santa Claus - and you know that it is a shameless LIE. When the kid asks how the babies are born, you probably say something about the “cabbage patch” and do not tell about the clinical detail of intra-vaginal intercourse. In other words, you LIE. Do you enlighten your kids that the Easter Bunny is not real, that it is just another LIE. When your kid is due to have a vaccine-shot, do you tell them: “yes, honey, it will hurt”… or do you LIE to them?

But LIES are a sin.You are not supposed to lie, at all… ever. Do you go and confess that you lied to your children? Do you make a solemn promise not to do it again? There is no such thing as an “innocent, white lie”? Or is there? Or are the children not “entitled” to the truth, just like the Nazi interrogators, who asked about the Jews’ hiding place?

How do you reconcile your frequent lies with your professed “thou shalt not lie” commandment?

Very trollish, but I’ll bite.

Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Great Pumpkin, etc… are folk lore. They are not lies. They are stories traditionally told to little children to excite their imaginations. Children grow up to pass on this traditional folklore to their children, although there are some that choose not to.

Shielding a child from the reality of sexual reproduction is not lying. A child of 4-6 years old has no concept of intercourse and their minds can’t handle the complex issues emotionally and mentally that revolve around the reproductive act. To imply that shielding them from this by presenting a version of it suitable for their minds, even if the version is an elaborate embellishment, is prudence, not lying.