Do you feel anxiety about the decline of religion?

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Please do not lump Catholicism with your above opinion of Christianity dying out.

Whyever not ? It’s a form of society, just like any other: some of which have been very extensive geographically, or very long-lived. If the Egyptian & Mesopotamian civilisations could come to an end after thousands of years, & if the Roman, Persian, & British Empires, all of them colossal in their day, could come to an end, it’s not clear why Christianity should be any different, big and long-lived as it is.​

One day, the Church - Catholic or not - will be a mere footnote, if that; it’s big, it’s powerful, but it isn’t eternal. It will go the same way as every other “super-power”; just as the USSR has done. What is said of the Church doctrinally is no reason to think otherwise; for if what is said about God doctrinally is compatible with the fact that this Almighty Saviour gives every appearance of being neither mighty nor a Saviour, there can equally well be a gap between what is said of the Church, & what is experienced in and by it. That being so, the promises of Christ to the Church are perfectly compatible with its passing away like every other society on earth. Those promises do not guarantee anything; they do not exempt the Church from the usual pressures and forces & influences that come with living within time and space. So why should those promises be thought to exempt it from dying out ?

No analogy suggests that it will get special treatment, and never die out. The Bible is full of unbreakable promises that were falsified by the event - the “eternal” Jewish priesthood turned out not to be anything of the kind, for instance; so why should the Church be any different ? Once facts give the lie to these promises, they can always be rationalised. because those who want to believe that black is white can always find reasons to believe it is. God is as reliable as our ingenuity allows Him to be.

If OSAS isn’t valid for individuals - as people insist it is not, time and again - it follows that it it is not valid for the Church either: because the Church is made up of individuals.

Because the Lord promsed this when he Built his church on Peter (the Rock), That even the Gates of Hell will not withstand The Church of G-D. Evil wins when Good lies DOrmant, thats my signature. 80% of so called “catholics don’t go to Mass on sundays” only 20% take it seriously. The Church is going through a time of heavy “Sleep” but it will Never die.

However, Divine promises do not exempt the Church from dying out. Theology & dogma can’t do duty for historical realities, & are no protection against them. Unfortunately.​

Actually there is a difference between a low tide and a dried up ocean. We are merely looking at a religion during one of those many tidal changes, since the person who it’s about has guaranteed it’s ultimate success, in spite of the temporary glee of those who have cheered its demise over the last two milleninia.

See above ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Because the Lord promsed this when he Built his church on Peter (the Rock), That even the Gates of Hell will not withstand The Church of G-D. Evil wins when Good lies DOrmant, thats my signature. 80% of so called “catholics don’t go to Mass on sundays” only 20% take it seriously. The Church is going through a time of heavy “Sleep” but it will Never die.

That idea is dealt with in post 41. Divine promises do not exempt the Church from dying out. Theology & dogma can’t do duty for historical realities, & are no protection against them. Unfortunately.​

 

[Don_L]

Whyever not ? It’s a form of society, just like any other: some of which have been very extensive geographically, or very long-lived. If the Egyptian & Mesopotamian civilisations could come to an end after thousands of years, & if the Roman, Persian, & British Empires, all of them colossal in their day, could come to an end, it’s not clear why Christianity should be any different, big and long-lived as it is.​

One day, the Church - Catholic or not - will be a mere footnote, if that; it’s big, it’s powerful, but it isn’t eternal. It will go the same way as every other “super-power”; just as the USSR has done. What is said of the Church doctrinally is no reason to think otherwise; for if what is said about God doctrinally is compatible with the fact that this Almighty Saviour gives every appearance of being neither mighty nor a Saviour, there can equally well be a gap between what is said of the Church, & what is experienced in and by it. That being so, the promises of Christ to the Church are perfectly compatible with its passing away like every other society on earth. Those promises do not guarantee anything; they do not exempt the Church from the usual pressures and forces & influences that come with living within time and space. So why should those promises be thought to exempt it from dying out ?

No analogy suggests that it will get special treatment, and never die out. The Bible is full of unbreakable promises that were falsified by the event - the “eternal” Jewish priesthood turned out not to be anything of the kind, for instance; so why should the Church be any different ? Once facts give the lie to these promises, they can always be rationalised. because those who want to believe that black is white can always find reasons to believe it is. God is as reliable as our ingenuity allows Him to be.

If OSAS isn’t valid for individuals - as people insist it is not, time and again - it follows that it it is not valid for the Church either: because the Church is made up of individuals.

However, Divine promises do not exempt the Church from dying out. Theology & dogma can’t do duty for historical realities, & are no protection against them. Unfortunately.​

See above ​

As Christ said, all the miracles in the world won’t convince some people -wipe the dust off your sandals folks, this one just seeks to attack God, not find truth.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

One day, the Church - Catholic or not - will be a mere footnote, if that; it’s big, it’s powerful, but it isn’t eternal. It will go the same way as every other “super-power”; just as the USSR has done. What is said of the Church doctrinally is no reason to think otherwise; for if what is said about God doctrinally is compatible with the fact that this Almighty Saviour gives every appearance of being neither mighty nor a Saviour, there can equally well be a gap between what is said of the Church, & what is experienced in and by it. That being so, the promises of Christ to the Church are perfectly compatible with its passing away like every other society on earth. Those promises do not guarantee anything; they do not exempt the Church from the usual pressures and forces & influences that come with living within time and space. So why should those promises be thought to exempt it from dying out ?

No analogy suggests that it will get special treatment, and never die out. The Bible is full of unbreakable promises that were falsified by the event - the “eternal” Jewish priesthood turned out not to be anything of the kind, for instance; so why should the Church be any different ? Once facts give the lie to these promises, they can always be rationalised. because those who want to believe that black is white can always find reasons to believe it is. God is as reliable as our ingenuity allows Him to be.

What happened, Gottle of Geer, your profile used to say “Catholic” and you used to stand up for Catholic teaching… what happened?

 

[paul_c]

you know, I read this entire thread and I think that we are missing several key points:

1. there is a very strong undercurrent of the faith. In my parish approximately 200 people go to daily mass and are active in parish sponsored devotions. We had 4 men enter the seminary this year
2. There are many, many people spreading the faith on websites like this.
3. EWTN and other Catholic media outlets are spreading the faith.
4. The number of priests world wide is actually rising.

Yes, there are a growing number of athiests, but there are also a growing number of the devout who are answering God’s call. And just look at this blog to see how many converts and reverts there are witnessing to God’s call.

Trust in God, His love will triumph. Do your part to spread the Faith to those you come into contact with. And don’t let the cynics bother you. They crucified Jesus. That didn’t stop anything.

 

[Luke65]

As Christ said, all the miracles in the world won’t convince some people -wipe the dust off your sandals folks, this one just seeks to attack God, not find truth.

No, our brother is lost. He’s found out, the hard way, what our Lord meant in the quote in my signature. Or, as William Provine noted, “Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented.”

No, not in the least. I think it’s to be expected. 2,000 years is a good innings for a religion, so it’s not surprising if Christianity dies out. There may be groups of Christians here or there in time to come, but one can hardly expect Christianity not to die out: everything else in the world does, so why should that be exempt ?​

Actually, Michael, our Lord is right on time!

“He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, that we may live before Him.” (Hosea 6:2 NASB)

“But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:8-9)

“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.” (Matthew 24:32-35)

Now, our Lord is referring to the fig tree He had just cursed (Matt. 21:19), which of course is symbolic of Israel (Hosea 9:10). So, when you see the fig tree come back to life, know that He is “right at the door.” And “this generation” - the generation that witnesses the fig tree come back to life, which happened in 1948 - “will not pass away until all these things take place.” Like I said, He’s right on time!

Because the Lord promsed this when he Built his church on Peter (the Rock), That even the Gates of Hell will not withstand The Church of G-D. Evil wins when Good lies DOrmant, thats my signature. 80% of so called “catholics don’t go to Mass on sundays” only 20% take it seriously. The Church is going through a time of heavy “Sleep” but it will Never die.

Our Lord is reviving us!

you know, I read this entire thread and I think that we are missing several key points:

1. there is a very strong undercurrent of the faith. In my parish approximately 200 people go to daily mass and are active in parish sponsored devotions. We had 4 men enter the seminary this year
2. There are many, many people spreading the faith on websites like this.
3. EWTN and other Catholic media outlets are spreading the faith.
4. The number of priests world wide is actually rising.

See what I mean! The Springtime for the Church comes before the summer harvest.

 

[paulonei]

1. If you read, in the Old Testament, the Prophetic Books and Historical Books you will see on what is occurring today that “… what has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes, a Sapiential Book)
2. For an analysis of the Catholic Faith today I recommend reading the “old” book “Introduction to Christianity” by Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI).
3. I think the better I can do about “my anxiety” is worry about being a good Catholic and do not worry so much on that other people are not being good Christians, i.e.:

“Look well unto thyself, and beware that thou judge not the doings of others. In judging others a man laboureth in vain; he often erreth, and easily falleth into sin; but in judging and examining himself he always laboureth to good purpose. According as a matter toucheth our fancy, so oftentimes do we judge of it; for easily do we fail of true judgment because of our own personal feeling. If God were always the sole object of our desire, we should the less easily be troubled by the erring judgment of our fancy.”
(The Imitation of Christ, Chapter XIV)

 

[Dameedna]

The future seems bleak, for the reason that religion has come to be associated with superstition rather than science or philosophy. This is one of the most insulting ironies I have ever encountered. It was the Catholics who brought the western world out of superstitious darkness. We were the first major religion to advocate a regular systematic view of the universe. The spread of Christianity led to the rise of the empirical method in the western world, but now scientists have turned their back on us.

You do realize, that evolution was proposed over 1000 years before Darwin by Islamic Scholars? And that the human body was being studied in the middle east, while christians refused to cut open a human body to discover it’s contents because it would be an attempt to divine God’s secrets?

In fact, the Islamic culture thrived, while christian culture was greatly behind, as a result of the church.

Time to read up on some history. The Catholic church did not “pull” humanity out of the dark ages. Many other cultures, were already beyond it. It is Catholic arrogance to suggest as much and one of the MANY reasons, people are becomeing more secular.

You tell lies, you will lose people’s trust.

Better a secular world based on imperical evidence, than a collection of believers, who re-write world history, to support their chosen views.

If you want to know why the world is becoming secular? Look toward yourselves.

Cheers

 

[Don_L]

You do realize, that evolution was proposed over 1000 years before Darwin by Islamic Scholars? And that the human body was being studied in the middle east, while christians refused to cut open a human body to discover it’s contents because it would be an attempt to divine God’s secrets?

In fact, the Islamic culture thrived, while christian culture was greatly behind, as a result of the church.

Time to read up on some history. The Catholic church did not “pull” humanity out of the dark ages. Many other cultures, were already beyond it. It is Catholic arrogance to suggest as much and one of the MANY reasons, people are becomeing more secular.

You tell lies, you will lose people’s trust.

Better a secular world based on imperical evidence, than a collection of believers, who re-write world history, to support their chosen views.

If you want to know why the world is becoming secular? Look toward yourselves.

Cheers

No one has more faith than a non-believer! How long have you been fighting this God that you don’t believe in?

 

[Crumpy]

I have anxiety about the people who are not being saved.

The only reason that David Letterman, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Stephen Black, and other personalities and even characters like House, MD are atheistic, among other reasons, is that they make jokes and money ridiculing religion.

They might say that religion ridicules itself, and that is a danger. A priest on EWTN said that the scandals in the Church are a big reason that people are falling away from the Church. I still don’t think that the problem of the scandals is over. We just found out about six weeks ago about the enormous scandal in Ireland. How much damage are clergy and consecrated religious doing to the Church!

The “faithful” are called that in the Catholic Church because of the many problems that the clergy itself has caused over the centuries.

Fr. Pacwa was talking the other night about active priests who have lost their faith, lost their faith but still continue to hold a position in the church and take money for their own support. That goes on right here in my own diocese. I think these are priests who are disillusioned or something.

but, I worry about the people who are not being saved.

I look at my own parish and worry about it. If the entire Catholic Church depended on the activism of my parish, I’d not expect the Church to survive. The local parish doesn’t act like a fired-up post-Pentecostal church, it’s more like a religious service station, part of an international conglomerate.

 

[grannymh]

You do realize, that evolution was proposed over 1000 years before Darwin by Islamic Scholars?

I’m interested in that. Is there a link somewhere?

And that the human body was being studied in the middle east, while christians refused to cut open a human body to discover it’s contents because it would be an attempt to divine God’s secrets?

Interesting. Not sure about “God’s secrets”. Do know that Christians respected the human body. Also know a bit about Egyptian beliefs regarding the human body after death. Of course, you could add the artistic cutting open of the dead which was allegedly employed in Italy. Not sure what all that has to do with the decline of religion. Sounds more like advancement in science and the arts.

In fact, the Islamic culture thrived, while christian culture was greatly behind, as a result of the church.

Don’t believe that both cultures existed in the same place at the same time with the exception of colonization. So am not sure how to compare them especially when one considers other cultures.

One of the greatest cultural exhibits ever to travel the U.S. was early China. Amazing.

Plus, what is your point? Are you saying that culture accounts for the decline or the rise of religion or that culture accounts for both the rise and decline of religion.

Time to read up on some history. The Catholic church did not “pull” humanity out of the dark ages. Many other cultures, were already beyond it.

What are you implying about the dark ages? Did they exist at a specific time in a specific place? History does not say that the dark ages covered the entire world.
And where do you consider the location of the Renaissance? Where did the Industrial Revolution take place. What two parts of the world were the first to travel into outer space?

Better a secular world based on imperical evidence, than a collection of believers, who re-write world history, to support their chosen views.

Is there anything wrong with the comments presented above – with the exception of mind reading regarding cutting open the human body. I’m always open for further discussion.

If you want to know why the world is becoming secular? Look toward yourselves.

That is an extremely good point. Thank you.

 

[paul_c]

You do realize, that evolution was proposed over 1000 years before Darwin by Islamic Scholars? And that the human body was being studied in the middle east, while christians refused to cut open a human body to discover it’s contents because it would be an attempt to divine God’s secrets?

In fact, the Islamic culture thrived, while christian culture was greatly behind, as a result of the church.

Time to read up on some history. The Catholic church did not “pull” humanity out of the dark ages. Many other cultures, were already beyond it. It is Catholic arrogance to suggest as much and one of the MANY reasons, people are becomeing more secular.

You tell lies, you will lose people’s trust.

Better a secular world based on imperical evidence, than a collection of believers, who re-write world history, to support their chosen views.

If you want to know why the world is becoming secular? Look toward yourselves.

Cheers

Dame Edna,
You claim that the Church held back civilization, but you know you can’t prove this. Nor can you prove your statement that the church is lying about history. These are simply hateful, unprovoked anti-Catholic statements.

Why do you have such hatred for the church, anyway?

And why do you spend so much time on religious forums, not only this one but ON FAITH as well? You don’t ask any questions of us, which is the true point of Catholic Answers, to answer moral and theological questions from a Catholic perspective. So why are you here? To try to pry people away from the faith with provocative, unsubstantiated, hateful statements? It might do you good to explore your motives. It might tell you something about yourself.

 

[Charlotte408]

You tell lies, you will lose people’s trust.

Better a secular world based on imperical evidence, than a collection of believers, who re-write world history, to support their chosen views.

If you want to know why the world is becoming secular? Look toward yourselves.

how funny i read this just after the thread i posted…humms merrily to herself

compliments of ms. salty sirena…

"
Just in the high school history books used in the United States, there are hundreds of documented errors. Either the teachers and administrators don’t care because it fits their agenda, or they are so ignorant that they don’t know the things in the book are wrong! They keep right on using them! The writers and their publishers should be ashamed of themselves.

textbookreviews.org/index…t=nl_11_02.htm
textbookreviews.org/index…t=nl_11_02.htm

There is nothing at all “scholarly” about many educational textbooks and resources."

-end quote…

the secular world is FULL of lies…they re-write history to support their choosen views…
its them, after all that write the history books right?? and its them i’ve lost my trust in…

 

[Detales]

Most of you would do well to take points concerning history advanced by Gottle and Dameedna far more seriously. There is such naivety and ignorance on this thread as makes me more convinced than ever that leaving the church was wisdom, let alone that I am thankful and joyful about it. If there is a sacrament of confirmation, you all have bestowed it on me and I am deeply grateful.

It is true that in the middle East and India, and in China progress was being made in fields clamped down on by the church in Europe. Zero was invented, the circumference of the Earth calculated, movable type used, metallurgy and the sciences advanced, gender equality, astounding architecture, canal systems and dams, all these things happened centuries earlier there than in Europe because of the brakes put on thought by the church. And that is the least of it. In those areas the philosophy of understanding the actual relationship of God and Man were advanced and incorporated while the church was promoting a guilt ridden duality that enhanced the feeling of separation of Man from his God. Go and read some history that isn’t polluted by piety! Go love yourself enough to THINK!!! In the name of the God you ignorantly worship, please do so!

Things I have read on here make me wonder if anyone, save a few, even opens a newspaper or watches the news with other than the kind of polarized lens that only allows you to project on to the world your habitual primitive notions about the world and yourselves. For instance, heres’s a good one: "*… the growing open hostility toward religion (the closer to Catholicism, the worse the hostility) constitutes a great trial of faith, and, ultimately (perhaps I am being paranoid!), I fear an old-timey persecution is a’comin’. And that - despite all the saints that get made during persecutions - would suck. I don’t want to be a martyr! * Where in this person’s mind are the current religious genocides being carried out, not to mention those throughout history???

What I have read on here is more of an indictment of the American people than anything else. These posts are proof positive of the “Dumbing down of America.” The lack of critical thinking, even according to Catholic dogma, the ignorance, and bigotry is astonishing! How can allegedly mature people hold to the drivel put forth on these posts??? How is it different from the geocentricism that the church held to for so long? Instead of the Earth, you have put Rome there, mistaking it for your precious selves. Wake up and prove for yourselves the God of Love!

 

[Angel7]

No one has more faith than a non-believer! How long have you been fighting this God that you don’t believe in?

This is so obviously true, if Athiests really believed there wasn’t a G-d, they wouldn’t spend time fighting something that doesn’t exist. They are fighting what they Refuse to acknowledge.
Also the Dark Ages was a result of the Collapse of West Rome, when Pagan Barbarians attacked Pagan west Rome (Christianity was a seed in the west, in the east it was Blooming) I think it would have been worse if the Church did not gain influence in the Dark ages. A united Christian Europe would prevent more wars and in-fighting. The Pope’s Authoritty gave order to the New Kingdoms that emerged. :knight1::knight1::knight1::knight1::knight1::knight1::knight1:

 

[Contarini]

You do realize, that evolution was proposed over 1000 years before Darwin by Islamic Scholars?

Can you document this?

And that the human body was being studied in the middle east, while christians refused to cut open a human body to discover it’s contents because it would be an attempt to divine God’s secrets?

No, because human beings are made in God’s image and you shouldn’t desecrate God’s image and treat it as just another object. The same mentality that led to the development of democracy and human rights.

In fact, the Islamic culture thrived, while christian culture was greatly behind, as a result of the church.

That’s a stereotype and not borne out by what I know. If you have some actual evidence for this–some real scholars of medieval Europe who argue this–then present it and cite them! Of course when we’re talking about generalizations like this there is going to be quite a bit of evidence on both sides.

Time to read up on some history.

Indeed.

The Catholic church did not “pull” humanity out of the dark ages.

I agree that that’s a simplistic metaphor. It is certainly true, however, that monasteries preserved learning and fostered technological growth; that legal and political sophistication tended to begin with the Church hierarchy and spread to civil governments; that universities began under the auspices of the Church; and so on.

Many other cultures, were already beyond it.

Or rather, they didn’t fall into it (insofar as “dark ages” is an accurate term at all).

Islam took over a much more sophisticated part of the Roman Empire in the first place. And Western Europe might not have had as much trouble “pulling out of the dark ages” if it hadn’t been for the continual raiding by the Norse, the Magyars, and yes, by those glorious Muslims.

It is Catholic arrogance to suggest as much and one of the MANY reasons, people are becomeing more secular.

You tell lies, you will lose people’s trust.

No. You tell lies that are found out, you will lose people’s trust. That’s not a justification for telling lies. Rather, my point is that the secular “Whig narrative” most people are taught in school is false on a lot of important points. But people trust what they are taught in school, and they interpret everything they learn later through that lens.

Christians generally can’t get away with their “lies” (a kinder term might be their biased and selective narratives) any more. That’s a very good thing, not least for Christianity! But a lot of secular “lies” (or biased and selective narratives) are floating around unchallenged. One of them is the idea you have suggested, that Western Europe and the Islamic world started from about the same point but that Europe was held back intellectually and technologically by Christianity. That’s pretty obviously a distortion and oversimplification of the historical record. Another is the idea that Europeans were ignorant and miserable throughout the Middle Ages until a magical awakening called the “Renaissance” broke the hold of religion over them and led to a flowering of art, literature, science, and political freedom. (In fact the real “Renaissance” arguably happened in the 12th century and went along with the growth in Church power–and intolerance–and the “Renaissance” of the 15-16th centuries actually went along with a growth in tyranny and intolerance, including the beginning of widespread hysteria about witchcraft, about which medieval Church leaders had generally been skeptical.)

Again, the fact that lots of people believe these kinds of distortions and half-truths doesn’t justify Christians in sticking to their own. Rather, let’s all embrace the messy reality of history and stop trying to make it serve our ideological purposes (of whatever kind) in a straightforward way.

Edwin

Better a secular world based on imperical evidence, than a collection of believers, who re-write world history, to support their chosen views.

If you want to know why the world is becoming secular? Look toward yourselves.

Cheers

 

[Contarini]

It is true that in the middle East and India, and in China progress was being made in fields clamped down on by the church in Europe. Zero was invented, the circumference of the Earth calculated, movable type used, metallurgy and the sciences advanced, gender equality, astounding architecture, canal systems and dams, all these things happened centuries earlier there than in Europe because of the brakes put on thought by the church.

Gender equality in the Middle East, India, and China? Can you document this astounding claim?
The European Middle Ages are now recognized by historians as a time of huge technological progress. In fact, you’re making the wrong accusation. Lynn White has made a famous argument that Christianity has contributed to environmental pollution because of the Biblical mandate to “subdue” the earth. But where did White get this from? From the study of medieval technology, which was White’s field. I think White was wrong about the way Genesis 1 was understood in both Jewish and Christian circles. But you’d have much firmer scholarly backing for a claim that the Church promoted the despoliation of the environment than for a claim that it held back technological progress.

And the thing is, this isn’t even new. White died in 1987 and made his famous critique of Christianity in the 60s. And yet forty years later here you are, claiming something exactly the opposite as if it were obviously the truth to anyone not “polluted by piety.” It is no doubt the fault of historians to a great extent that ideas take so long to get out of specialist circles–although White is surely one of the more effective historians in terms of communicating with the broader educated world, given the huge impact of his article. It’s almost as if the secular world took the bit that was critical of Christianity, and ignored the fact that this criticism overturns stereotypes about the “stagnant” and “ignorant” Middle Ages!

And that is the least of it. In those areas the philosophy of understanding the actual relationship of God and Man were advanced and incorporated while the church was promoting a guilt ridden duality that enhanced the feeling of separation of Man from his God.

This is pretty vague and seems to rest on your own strongly held religious beliefs. I respect those beliefs, but it’s only fair to point out that you are hardly approaching this from a neutral point of view.

Go and read some history that isn’t polluted by piety!

Impiety can “pollute” history too. People have all different sorts of axes to grind. The best approach is to read as widely as possible and incorporate all different sorts of perspectives–pious and impious alike!

Edwin

 

[Angel7]

Note also: Monks (especially those in Ireland) Kept many manuscripts. In fact:irish2::irish3: if IRISH MONKS had not spread writings (Mostly christian writings) throughout Europe, we would hace been in the Dark ages for another 100 or so years.

Ya, Christian Monks spread Literature during the dark ages, your counter arguement?

 

[Angel7]

The Church in General Spread Literature as well, The Catholic Church used Latin, from the Dead Roman Empire, the Germanic Kingdoms Adopted Vernacular (similar to Romance languages, Medievalish) If The Church didn’t use Latin, then many Latin Works, such as The Epic Poems. Would Never have been copied, the Catholic Church did much to revive Literature.

Now Science, such as Galileo’s discovery of us revolving around the sun. Was dismissed by the Church (but note the Church did give a some-what Recent Apology). Do you think the Church is impervious to our own lack of knowledge? The Holy Spirit guides us away from Doctrinal Error. Not Scientific Theories. That was our Own fault, we’re all Human as are you, Agreed?

 

[Detales]

" but it’s only fair to point out that you are hardly approaching this from a neutral point of view." I appologize, Contarini, I should follow your sterling example of that. My "Go and read some history that isn’t polluted by piety! " still stands.