if not taught by Christ. That is the question- what is the totality …
Understand. Yet the bible warns of false teachers arising from the real church. Indeed the church has done well to excise falsehood.However, many think the reformation is part of that historical process in a positive way (excising falsehoods), and others in a negative way
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REALLY? I missed that. Can you tell me where it is? The Bible is a Catholic Book; written for Catholics; whose authors did not foresee the Reformation. as for the legitimacy of the revolution;** Mt. 16:18-19; Jn 17:16-20; & Mt 28:18-20 **precisely deny that possibility. Historically Yahweh and Jesus Both choice for reasons we will only uncover in our eternal-life; choose One People [Exo 6:7 & and ditto for Chirst 'MY Church" singular…There exist to my limited knowledge not a single instance of God permitting, tollerateing, or accepting ANY competing faiths or faith beliefs:shrug:.
{Quote]Again, the reformation was partly fueled by the hermeneutics you suggest (historical/traditional). That is,‘my father believed this and so his father, down thru the ages, and so it must be true and Catholic true’. That is OK on some things but not on all things. Christ had the same problem for Judaism had some things wrong (and crucified the Truth), and some things right (Israel fulfilled the Protoevangelium-brought forth the Messiah). So again just what is the true totality of being in, and understanding the Covenant, even the New one?
Let’s assume for a minute that your right. It would require either that the bible is is GRAVE error; or that God led. Which in you’re opinion is it?
Again, to general of a statement giving improper slant to true history. Did teaching/practices of 15th C church really exist for “1500 years”, was there no evolving, and did any reformation teaching/views really not exist for those same 1500 years ?
Of course. Totality;QUOTE]
I’m sure its because I’m only on my second cup of coffee, BUT I see your question as being irreverent.
Certainly the Church evolved; BUT “truth” remains whether its defined or not. Both Catholic Doctrine and Dogma traditionally steemed and flowed through prior existing beliefs and practices; which were guided by the Holy Spirit as Promised. THEE Church dealt quickly and most often precisely with the emerging heresies. .
As to reformation views existing before the reformation: Certainly they did and they were called and addressed as Heresies. Something does not become true; simply because many accepted the most often EASIER teaching. A Heresy remains a heresy [Look at the bottom under by signature
And former Pope Benedict taught this truism:
**“There cannot be your truth AND my truth or their would be NO truth.”…
Why not ? Such a type of forgiveness of sins is mentioned 17 times in NT. Your position is crystal clear .Thank you. Of the 26 NT verses dealing with sin forgiveness, one or possibly two can be used for your position (John 20 :23, and James 5;15) .The rest deal with the "gospel message, faith in Christ and His blood(19 times) and 4 times amongst each other. Of your two, James in the very next verse says “confess’ one to another”. So now we are left with John 20 . You say it is separate from all other verses instituting a new sacrament. I say it is another way of looking at the great commission and ties in with the other 19 verses
My friend are you a pastor? You’re well informed.
Here’s what your missing:
Just a few post ago I supplied the two Infallible rules for right understanding of the Bible.
Never can one part of the bible invalidate; void or override another part. Such would render the entire bible useless. Your culling passages that REQUIRE personal interpretation while OVER-LOOKING a teaching that is so precise that it does not.
“Truth is the condition of grace; it is the source of grace; it is the channel of grace; it is the divinely ordained requirement of grace.”
Fr. John A. Hardon S. J.
John.20 Verses 20 to 23"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again,** “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”** And when he had said this,
he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
**
2nd. Peter 3: 14-17 **“Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters.
There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability
**2nd. Peter 1: 16-21 **“You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. First of all you must understand this,
that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
THIS wll because of lenght be in two parts
End of pt 1 of 2
some 1,500 YEARS Later.
Rita
ear friend do you mean precisely by this comment?