Do You Know How Bad the Dechristianization of Europe Really Is?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JamalChristophr
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Big difference between nominally Catholic and practicing Catholic though. As the OP said, 12% of people in Rome go to mass. Not good.

Now, the situation is better in Poland, Malta, and a few other select countries in Europe. But the situation does look quite ugly overall.
 
Not only liberals. Conservatives have their own political obligations that demand correctness.
 
Last edited:
Somewhere I read that France is not decreasing in population like most European countries, because Catholics are still having children. I do not know if that is an indicator or not. I cannot help but think that back when the English were about to take France in the 100 years war, Joan of Arc entered the stage and changed history. Without her France would have become ‘Anglican’. So God does not leave the world without some help.
 
As an American of Irish descent, I weep for my homeland. Where is de Valera when you need him? I am afraid that the eighth amendment will be repealed and the island will be lost. But at least the Church will survive because Christ promised in Matthew 16:18.
 
Where do these numbers come from that you are citing, please?
 
Fewer than 1 in 10 in France attend Mass. Say what??? Is this the same France that produced such great Saints as Bernadette Soubirous, Therese Martin, Louis Martin and Marie-Azélie Guérin Martin, Louis de Montfort, Isaac Jogues, Catherine Labouré, Francis de Sales, John Vianney, Bernard of Clairvaux, Joan of Arc, Élisabeth Catez, Vincent de Paul, Margaret Mary Alacoque and on and on and on and on?

Houston…we’ve got a problem!!!
 
Is there a link to an article on the Internet about fertility dynamics in France?
 
jackfitz316 said:
Yeah. I think that Christianity as a whole is in a nosedive. But to be honest, I’m not scared. Remember Matthew 16:18. Christ promises that the church will not fall.
Click to expand...
Its not about being scared. Its about having sorrow for the great amount of shallow, vain Christians. Its about suffering more because many members are doing great damage to the body!
 
Europe is really diverse, most Americans have a hard time grasping just how much differences there are. Overall population size is comparable to the U.S., but we have about 1500 years more in terms of history which complicates things. I can only talk about Germany, more specifically southern Bavaria. I must say things look awful. Coming from a very comfortable scenario with almost 100% of the people being Catholic, with each generation the pews empty more. When I went to primary school, out of twenty people twenty were RC. Note that this was a state-run school. My whole class went to first communion together. Our parish priest was responsible religious education classes in the public school. As a child, I didn’t realize for a long time that there were other churches resp. religions besides the Catholic church. They just didn’t exist in my home town in Bavaria. Now, things seem to be changing dramatically. It’s so sad to see.
 
It almost makes me think of half life, you have a group of Catholics and only some of their kids will continue to practice so then you have an even smaller number of Catholics, then that group of Catholics will only have some of their kids practicing so you get an even smaller group.
 
I hope it won’t be so grim as that. There will come a time of resurgence, but I’m not certain when.
 
I think it’s not so much about numbers as it is about personal intensity and devotion. I’d say it’s worse to have a million like-warm French going through the motions, a much more sacrilegious concern than it is to have a devout handful.

Just yesterday, I was talking with a member of our local Catholic Charismatic Covenant Community (a global organization). She was telling me that their French chapter was booming, now welcoming over 400 new seminarians. So there is always hope, there are always dormant seeds.
 
I’m English. The Catholic Church has been in steep decline since Vatican II. Churches are closing and Mosques are opening. Its the Great Apostasy mentioned in the Bible. In 50 years Europe will be Eurabia thanks to mass immigration and huge Muslim families. The native Europeans aren’t having kids and stopped going to Church in the 70s.
 
I love England and am so sad to see this decline. I follow Joanna Bogle’s blog, and she seems to be at the heart of revival groups of devout Catholics in various English communities. Her blog gives hope, but perhaps it is on such as small scale that it is not doing much good–yet, at least. I am glad that Our Lady of Walsingham has returned to a place of pilgrimage.
 
Saxum said:
I’m English. The Catholic Church has been in steep decline since Vatican II. Churches are closing and Mosques are opening. Its the Great Apostasy mentioned in the Bible. In 50 years Europe will be Eurabia thanks to mass immigration and huge Muslim families. The native Europeans aren’t having kids and stopped going to Church in the 70s.
Click to expand...
Based on family dynamics in the United States, I have to think two World Wars played out on European soil during the 20th century had much to do with this. Vatican II was not called out of thin air, but in response to dire signs in Europe, signs that Pope Bl. John XXIII was well aware of.

It isn’t as if the Lutherans or the Anglicans are exactly seeing boom times in Europe. For instance, there are currently more practicing Catholics than Anglicans in Britain. From what I gather, the Catholic Church is the most vital of the Christian denominations elsewhere in Europe, too. On that account, I have to think that Vatican II was not a cause but truly was a response to what was happening in European Christendom in the last half of the 20th century.

Islam is not on track to become the most prevalent religious affiliation in Europe or the United States, but it is certainly gaining ground on Christianity worldwide.
 
Last edited:
PetraG said:
From what I gather, the Catholic Church is the most vital of the Christian denominations elsewhere in Europe, too. On that account, I have to think that Vatican II was not a cause but truly was a response to what was happening in European Christendom in the last half of the 20th century.
Click to expand...
This gave me pause for thought. I’ve never placed the post-Vatican II Church in context with the wider culture. My analysis was based on comparing Church statistics from before and after Vatican II. I did not think of comparing the Church with the other dominations over time.

Our Lord knew the bad stuff that would happen in 20th century. Maybe that’s why John XXIII felt called to initiate an ecumenical council. Maybe Vatican II actually prevented something worse from happening.
 
PetraG said:
Islam is not on track to become the most prevalent religious affiliation in Europe or the United States, but it is certainly gaining ground on Christianity worldwide.
Click to expand...
By affiliation, Islam won’t be #1 in either one. In terms of practice/observance, it may be possible in Europe though.
 
Last edited:
ATraveller said:
By affiliation, Islam won’t be #1 in either one. In terms of practice/observance, it may be possible in Europe though.
Click to expand...
Good point. Hatch-match-dispatch adherence is not what is intended by our baptism.
 
From my point of view, the situation only applies to Europe and first world countries as these continents have become economically rich and so people tend to view themselves as self-sufficient individuals without having a room for God. It is apparent that religiousness is closely related to the well-being of people.

On the other hand, there is Russia which had a boom of Orthodox Christians after the collapse of the atheist Soviet Union. According to the nationwide survey in 2010, 75% of Russians regarded themselves to be Orthodox, wherein about 73% of Orthodox respondents practice religious rites and holidays.

Russia is a poor country compared to the west countries, and there is lots of corruption, dishonest politicians and many other issues that take place over there, however people hold true to the Church as they haven’t witnessed such an unprecedented prosperity of it in many decades.
 
Last edited:
The SSPX and other traditional groups are thriving because they’ve kept the Faith. They didn’t mess things up with a bunch of untested novelties. Therefore, if the French Bishops want to fill their churches and rejuvenate their dioceses, they should return to Tradition. The solution to the problem is obvious.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top