Do you know people who pray in tongues?

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I was there for something else, but the group I was with, we were joined by the charismatic Catholics, and we prayed the rosary together. They seemed like faithful Catholics to me.
 
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I find the Catholic Church is the most easy to defend and if any spirituality is approved by the Church, I can be sure it is easy to defend as well. But then that’s just me - life is rather simple.
 
But people never speak in tongues as a spontaneous work of the spirit. They always plan ahead, as it were, and go to prayer groups and churches to do it. This is not how the holy spirit works.

John 3:8 - The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

If what St Paul meant by speaking in tongues is what charismatics interpret to mean, then it is not something you can do by an act of the will. It will come spontaneously by the holy spirit.
 
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Thistle - Personally I think that anyone who claims to talk in tongues (the gibberish) is a fake. There is no evidence that these people are genuine. None of them have submitted themselves to the Church to discern if their claim is true or not and none of them will submit to the Church. We are all supposed to take them at their word.

We know them by their fruits.

Priests and religious that have experienced this gift are automatically submitted to the Church for discernment, by virtue of their vows of obedience and community oversight.
Any priest or bishop can, at any time, call upon an investigation of the authenticity of the gift.
Basically I think you are saying that what is written in the bible is false._

I doubt they would be automatically subjected to discernment if speaking modern “tongues-speech”. What would be the criteria for discernment? There is no such thing as “satanic” or “demon” tongues – it’s all the same thing produced the exact same way.

If, on the other hand, they were exhibiting what seemed like true xenoglossy, I can see them being subjugated to some sort of discernment; however, there are no reported true cases of xenoglossy.

I know it seems reasonable to make 21st century demands of historical writings. Protestants do it here every day! I just read a post where a Reformed Christian was making this same argument about infant baptism. Stating that this was not the purpose of the wriitng (to be a complete doctrinal compendium or instruction book) avails one nothing. Demands are still made upon the authors based on the current want/need.

People back then, as they do now, just wrote about their experiences as best they could and sometimes used whatever ‘science’ or scripture had to back it up. These early descriptions however all seem to point to what we today know as glossolalia.

I think this question is based upon a couple erroneous assumptions.

And those would be?

I am sure this can be concluded, especially if one rejects some of the supportive evidence.

Such as?

Since the Catechism translates this as charismatic gifts, it would seem essential to make the writers of this “sure norm” of the faith to correct this mistake!

I didn’t write the original – in Corinthians, Paul wrote “moreover, concerning spiritual things/matters” I can see why it was translated to ‘gifts’, but unfortunately this translation has led to a slew of false assumptions.
 
@ Deacon Jeff –

Re. “praying in the spirit” -

The Greek word translated “pray in” can have several different meanings/nuances. It can mean “by means of,” “with the help of,” “in the sphere of,” and “in connection to.” Praying in the Spirit does not refer to the words we are saying. Rather, it refers to how we are praying.

In the three places the phrase is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely no reference to ‘languages’ in connection with the phrase. Therefore, “praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with ‘pray in tongues’. A reading into Scripture of something that was just never there.

This is one of two of the perhaps best examples of classic re-definition of scripture by Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians (the other being the word “tongue(s)” itself).

As mentioned in an earlier post, early Pentecostal/Charismatic ‘tongues-speakers’ looked for Scriptural references for what they were doing, since their original supposition (xenoglossy) definitely wasn’t it; however, Scriptural references were simply not there. The resulting implicit theology was not a synthesis of revelation and philosophy, but rather a synthesis of trying to make sense of the “tongues experience” in light of the narrative of Scripture.

In other words, a way to legitimize the modern phenomenon by ‘proofing‘ it in the Bible, despite the obvious overwhelming absence therein of anything resembling modern tongues – call it what you will, but the result was a virtual re-definition of Scripture with respect to the understanding/justification of modern “tongues” for this group of Christians.

@Joe 5859 –

Some is definitely just copying the “main speaker” in a group (frequently the pastor). It’s been demonstrated that in some cases, a given church will have speakers who all use the same few phrases to start their glossolalia; almost like a phrase some people are given to “instruct them” on how to speak in tongues (e.g. “gottabuyahonda”, “shouldaboughtahonda” are some of the classic examples). The rest of is all self-created. You will never use a phoneme (sound) in your glossolalia that does not exist in your native language or any other language you have been exposed to. So, a monoglot English speaker who has never been exposed to any other language will never exhibit glossolalia containing say the Welsh ‘ll’, or the Zulu ‘hl’ or ‘dl’, or even the German ‘ö’.

The practice itself is not “phony” per se – see my comments above on glossolalia/tongues as a tool.
 
The Pope himself has said, “Pray any way you like, so long as you PRAY!” Good enough for me. Personally, I never heard it done.
 
Good to hear from you. I cannot get on the new CAF because my computer is too
old.

e-mail me – grannymh@ureach.com and I will do my best to explain any issues.
In any case, let me know if you got this.

Blessings,
granny
 
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So, if I understand correctly, the CC term “praying in the spirit” does not equate to “praying in tongues”?

Or can it sometimes refer to it, or does it never refer to it, or does it depend on the person? Not trying to be smart, just trying to get a better idea of how the term is defined for CC’s. I’ve never heard it used without essentially meaning the same as “praying in tongues”.
 
Thanks - but whether praying or speaking, there’s no difference in what’s being produced or how it’s being produced; it’s all the same. From a religious perspective though, as I understand it, ‘praying in tongues’ does not require ‘interpretation’, whilst ‘speaking’ does.
 
whyeyeman said:
But people never speak in tongues as a spontaneous work of the spirit. They always plan ahead, as it were, and go to prayer groups and churches to do it. This is not how the holy spirit works.

John 3:8 - The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

If what St Paul meant by speaking in tongues is what charismatics interpret to mean, then it is not something you can do by an act of the will. It will come spontaneously by the holy spirit.
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I don’t plan ahead for prayer in the Spirit. I just do it.
I do attend a Charismatic prayer group but I don’t go there just to pray in tongues. I go there to pray and praise God together with others.
Nor do I pray in tongues only at the meetings. I do so at home as well.

Also spontaneous does not mean random, and John 3:8 does not mean that the Spirit acts at random.

Further “the Spirit comes where it wishes”: the Spirit decides who shall receive the gift. None can receive it except by the will of the Spirit.
That does not mean those who receive it can’t exercise it once received.
 
I had trouble getting on. I got the message that my computer was too old.
Please use my e-mail address grannymh@ureach
if I disappear.

Currently, I pray in Tongues without sound. I still yield my speech mechanism
to the Holy Spirit, but I do not use the breath/sound etc. In between typing, I
am praying in tongues because I am not sure how to answer such a large
question. Praying in Tongues is one way of saying “Help me God.” We often pray
“Help me God” in the vernacular so we should not be surprised that the Catholic
Charismatic Renewal often uses help me God Tongues.

Basically, tongues is one way to connect with the Holy Spirit and then let the
Holy Spirit take over especially in prayer.

I think that praying in Tongues is great. It is especially great when I am
facing a difficult situation. The Holy Spirit lifts my prayer to God.

The word “renewal” in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal really truly means
renewal. We are renewing teachings of St. Paul.

I would be delighted to answer specific questions. Use grannymh@ureach.com when
necessary.
 
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Speaking in tongues is a gift of evangelisation, not a form of prayer.
The reason people think it does something is because they get worked up into a frenzy by the group they are in.
I ask, how is it meant to benefit someone’s relationship with God if they don’t know what they are saying? The whole idea makes no sense.
 
Because nobody did it for the first 1900 years of the church. Forgive me for being skeptical of this Protestant innovation.
 
whyeyeman said:
Speaking in tongues is a gift of evangelisation, not a form of prayer.
The reason people think it does something is because they get worked up into a frenzy by the group they are in.
I ask, how is it meant to benefit someone’s relationship with God if they don’t know what they are saying? The whole idea makes no sense.
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1 Cor 14:1-5.
Speaking in tongues to build up oneself, prophecy to build up the Church.
How so, if speaking in tongues doesn’t count as prayer?

I have never seen any prayer group I was with get worked up into any frenzies, and I’ve been praying in the Spirit since about 1996. Nor have I ever gotten into a frenzy myself.

Romans 8:26
The Spirit intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. How can this not be to our benefit?
 
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Just a general question to no one in particular -

Why do you assume “tongues” is something other than real language(s)?

(Probably will not get a chance to get back to this until Monday, so no hurry on any replies.)
 
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