Do you know people who pray in tongues?

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And again. One of the students on that retreat in 1967 that started the Charismatic Movement is or was a member of CAF and wrote about the experience.

Do a search and read it.
 
I must say that, of the great variety of charisms, explaining this particular charism is akin to what Saint Thomas Aquinas stated regarding faith:
"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible. - Thomas Aquinas
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Substitute “tongues” for “faith” and it fits exactly.

An open letter to those who doubt the charism of tongues: Fine. But, it seems that we had better know what our particular charisms are and put them to use, as we will soon be called to account for what we did with the single Talent, or the five Talents or the ten Talents (charisms). Matthew 25:14-30.
 
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PLeeD said:
Again, how can he pray in a language that he doesn’t understand? Was he supernaturally speaking modern French, or Klingon, but couldn’t understand it? No.
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The answer is yes he was speaking a real foreign language that he had not learned but was given that ability by the Holy Spirit. It was not some gibberish talk.
 
Thistle, what makes you think we , who pray or sing in tongues, are gibberish speaking.

When I hear people singing in tongues together, it’s amazing how in tune and melodic they are.
 
I think he is saying that the speaking in tongues part is contrived or made up… which matches my experience
 
well it doesnt match mine , or that of many here on CAF.

it surprises me how closed Catholics can be to their own Charisms.

but then I used to be like that. Until I opened my heart to God much more.
 
its not speaking gibberish. thats a popular misconception. does it come from non catholic experiences of pentacostal organisations?
 
The biblical understanding of speaking in tongues at the Pentecost is that the apostles began speaking coherently in foreign languages.

Is that what happens when charismatics speak in tongues or is it incoherent?

The question I’d really like answered is this: What food comes from speaking incoherently? Or is it simply passing the time in a way that is pleasing to the speaker?
 
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The claim was made about St Francis Xavier. The reliable biographical information does not support that St Francis Xavier spoke in an unknown, unearthly manner. That would mean the prior claimant owes a substantiated source for the claim or they can say “I was repeating what someone told me and it may not be documented”.
 
It is a natural human thing to follow along with the tune someone else is singing. I’ve been to more Charismatic gatherings than I can count, hundreds of them before I became Catholic and dozens on the Catholic side of the world. The singing is always the same sort of tune, something similar to the intoning of the Gospel Acclimation sort of scale. It is learned behavior.
 
No. They are well intentioned Christians who desire to love, serve and know God. They were introduced to something that hit an emotional chord with them. The feelings that came from the initial experience, the power of a persuasive, Charismatic leader, brought joy and elation and a feeling of comfort to the person. They like those feelings, so, they continue to seek them out in their day-to-day lives.

They are not fakes, at least 99% are not. They tend to be emotional people, they tend not to engage in scholarly research or critical thinking. Every Charismatic I know is a lovely person who adores Christ.
 
TheLittleLady said:
They tend to be emotional people, they tend not to engage in scholarly research or critical thinking.
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I guess it depends who you know. I know charismatic Catholics that have PhDs and wouldn’t be the type of person I would categorize as “emotional”.
 
Reuben J –

… in groan that we cannot understand. ‘Groan’ is something audible …from our mouth but by the ‘assistance’ of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, it’s audible, but it’s not language. That Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians associate this passage (and hence “groanings”) with tongues. Again, an example of how the concept of ‘tongues’ is read into a given text. Romans 8:26 is not in reference to any spiritual gift, ‘tongues’ included.

It can be just a word or a sentence or two - a prophecy to encourage the listener concerned.

It’s more reasonable to postulate that person living in a community that does not speak his/her native language, who is fully immersed in the language is going to, either consciously or subconsciously, pick up some of the language – it’s inevitable; one of the reasons why full-emersion language teaching is so effective. I just don’t buy that in a scenario like this, it’s come by supernaturally.

Po18guy –

Substitute “tongues” for “faith” and it fits exactly.

That’s not a good analogy – there are indeed things which must be taken on faith; they can neither be proven, nor disproven. Modern tongues however, are not one of these things – they are something very tangible and can be (and have been) studied and analyzed.

Roseeurekacross –
Thistle, what makes you think we , who pray or sing in tongues, are gibberish speaking.
When I hear people singing in tongues together, it’s amazing how in tune and melodic they are.

I do not presume to answer for anyone else, but my thoughts on it – first, as far as singing goes, random sounds sung at various pitches can create natural harmonics; it’s actually kind of cool the way it works and it does sound very melodic.

If they are singing in tongues, the only way they can be ‘in tune’ (at least from a musical point of view) is to all be singing the same melody/tune, i.e. the melody/tune needs to be “pre-determined”, as it were.

Modern tongues are non-cognitive non-language utterance. Some would call it “gibberish”, but it actually does have a “rhyme and reason”, of sorts, from a linguistic point of view.

its not speaking gibberish

Most speakers perceive their tongues to be “language”; it is not and there are a slew of reasons why that is to lengthy to get into here.

Next time you speak in tongues, record yourself and listen, really listen, to what it is you are actually producing.
 
godisgood77 said:
The biblical understanding of speaking in tongues at the Pentecost is that the apostles began speaking coherently in foreign languages.
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That’s the usual general understanding (i.e. what happened was an example of xenoglossy), but there’s actually another way (some refer to it as a “third way”) these “tongues” at Pentecost can be explained. I’ll try and post something as time allows - it’s quite lengthy and it’s a matter of trying to condense it without leaving out too much. I wish the allowable text on posts was much longer!
 
godisgood77 said:
The biblical understanding of speaking in tongues at the Pentecost is that the apostles began speaking coherentlybin foreign languages.
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Let’s try to understand Pentecost first. Let’s see its sequences.
  1. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit – the Paraclete, Advocate, Counselor, Comforter.
  2. Before ascension, Jesus asked – wait for the Spirit, the power on high, to come and you will be given power.
  3. The disciples with Mother Mary prayed in the upper room.
  4. Pentecost – the Holy Spirit came like tongue of fire and roaring wind.
  5. Apostles spoke in languages understood by listeners.
  6. Apostles got Charismatic gifts – healing, miracle, preaching, prophecy, discernment, praying, etc.
Fast forward two thousand years later.
  1. 1893? -Some nun from Italy petitioned for the Pope to release of the Holy Spirit in the Church.
  2. 1959 - Pope John XXIII called to pray for a new Pentecost.
  3. 1967 – some Catholics experienced the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
See the sequence – promise, pray, Holy Spirit comes, Charismatic gifts. Why? To renew, to strengthen the Church especially when she is in an adverse situation. The Gate of Hell will not prevail against her.

The question is: Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is not be with us when we pray to ask Him to come?

In Lk 11:13 – the only thing that the Father in heaven will surely give us is the Holy Spirit, if we ask.

Tongue is just one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and it is the least among the gifts.

The disciples at Pentecost spoke in their languages but understood by the listeners who did not speak the languages. Edit (sentence structure). This happened in a state of prayer and gathering. They did not speak in tongue at will any time.

But it is more than that. The power of the Holy Spirit actually transformed them. They had the gifts of the Holy Spirit in order to be tangible witnesses of Jesus (remember – you will be my witnesses, not just in Jerusalem but to the end of the earth).

If the Church prays, if we pray and ask for the Holy Spirit, would God not hear us?

Those are the background.

If you do not believe that God will not give the Holy Spirit, then of course, there would be no gifts of the Holy Spirit, include tongue.

It is quite frightening to think about the gifts. Supernatural things happened as in Pentecost. Impossible? But Jesus said, “you can even do greater things than me, that’s why I have to go, so that the Holy Spirit comes.” (paraphrase)

The Church prayed for a new Pentecost to renew her, and God granted that. To disbelieve that is to disbelieve that God would not do that, right?
 
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godisgood77 said:
Is that what happens when charismatics speak in tongues or is it incoherent?
The question I’d really like answered is this: What food comes from speaking incoherently? Or is it simply passing the time in a way that is pleasing to the speaker?
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Two type of tongues: Speaking in tongue as in Pentecost and praying in tongue as in Romans 8;26 and in 1 Cor as Paul speak about.

The Pentecost tongue is rare. There were incidents but it is rare.
You can always find some reason for it but if we do not want to attribute it to the Holy Spirit, especially since we asked, then it is like not wanting to give glory to God.

It is for a purpose – to edify, to up-build, to encourage, the body of Christ, not for oneself. There are many people who do not want this gift because to have it is to exercise it to serve. The reason is always to serve. If you serve the Lord, the Lord would empower you, otherwise how could you do it on your own strength?

For example, in ministry, when you are asked to pray over someone who is sick, and do not know what the cause is. There was an incident when a person spoke in tongue, and the sick girl (they ministered to) knew a single word he said. It was the nick-name of her brother-in-law, which only the family knew. Through discernment, it was found out that the brother-in-law sexually abused her as a little girl, which nobody else knew. With that, she was led into a prayer of forgiveness, and later miraculously her sickness was gone.

Do you doubt the Holy Spirit can empower us? Are you unable to accept that Christians can be given the Charismatic gifts? Is it spiritual pride? Is it lack of humility? Is it the difficulty to accept that this can happen (to Christians)?

Think about it.

The praying in tongue is more common. Not all Charismatics pray in tongue though. It is the sound that comes from our mouth that we cannot understand because the Holy Spirit prays through us – a perfect prayer to God.

Many people cannot pray or know what to pray. If someone asks you to pray over him and you are shy and do not know to pray, what would you do? Nothing, right? It is different if you have the gift of tongue, you can minster to that person or you use it to pray on your own.

God bless.
 
godisgood77 said:
I would like to understand how speaking jibberish is a gift of the Holy Spirit… can some one explain what positives come from it?
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Actually I think @Medawlinno has done a fine job of explaining this, but I was not referring to “jibberish”.
godisgood77 said:
I think he is saying that the speaking in tongues part is contrived or made up… which matches my experience
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It appears that you have made a judgment, based on your own experience, that one of the true gifts of the HS does not exist - that Scripture is wrong, the Catechism is wrong, and the Magesterium is wrong. I think that means you have covered all the bases with regard to rejecting Holy Mother Church, based upon your own experiences.
 
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