Do you struggle with same-sex attraction?

[Timidity]

LCMS_No_More:

I wonder why this is all the way near the bottom of the page when all the threads that criticize anyone who has ever had the inkling of a thought of homosexuality are all at the top.

Speaks volumes to me!

The order in which threads are displayed is based on the time of the last post. The only “volume” that it speaks is that this thread is asking people to reveal deeply personal information that many would rather not.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I also find it interesting that many hereosexuals, both male and female, are fearful of people with ssa. They’re afraid that the person they know with ssa is going to make a pass at them, or try to indoctrinate them in some way, or other nonsense such as that. It’s as if every person with ssa is this evil, deviant person who’s only thoughts are about sex.

Or what’s worse, that the heterosexual may “catch the gayness” as though it’s a transmitable disease. Fact is, you don’t “catch the gayness.” A person with SSA isn’t likely to make a pass at an obviously straight person and if they do, you just tell them no and they’ll respect that. In most cases, though, you probably wouldn’t know that you are talking to a person with SSA unless they told you.

In my case, I don’t dress or act gay (generally speaking). Unless you got to know me REALLY well, you probably wouldn’t guess that I am same-sex attracted as I don’t talk like a woman, I don’t lisp, I don’t sashe, I don’t wear makeup, I don’t have long nails or paint them. I don’t make passes at straight men–unless I’m willing to pay (JUST KIDDING!). I’m rather fat, I’m terribly unattractive and I am pretty much a slob. I’m working on the fat part, but the unattractiveness is something I have to deal with. Who knows, that may be a good thing in the long run. At any rate, I don’t fit the stereotype of your typical “gay male.”

What I AM is a Christian who finds himself struggling with same-sex attractions and has begun a voyage of discovery into why and how this came to be in my own life. I can tell you that I didn’t actively choose to be attracted to men and that if I could flip a switch and become “straight,” I’d do it in a heartbeat. Some people here seem to think that’s all it takes. Sorry, you’re wrong.

Since I’ve started on this little journey, I’ve tried to look at my thought processes from without myself (not easy to do but it’s doable). If I see an “attractive guy,” I ask myself, okay, what is it about him that I am attracted to. It’s NOT his “package” that is drawing me. In most cases, I find that my thoughts don’t even GO there. I find myself studying certain attributes of what makes him masculine. In some cases, it’s his demeanor or his appearance. In others, it’s an attribute of his stature (the masculine attributes) that draw one to him (things above the waist–get your mind out of the gutter!)…again NOT SEXUALLY, but in a way of “wow, I wish I knew what it was like to have that or be that.” The other man becomes, not an object of lust, but an object of desire to possess the attributes of comfort in one’s one masculinity that he possesses. In my case, I know that I don’t IDENTIFY with my own masculinity. Sometimes, I find myself TERRIFIED of it. I’ve discussed why I think this is so in this thread already.

It’s hard to describe to a person who developed properly and is straight without making you think that I’m some sort of sicko pervert because it’s not sexual. For a homosexual person, sex is usually NOT about “getting off,” but about trying to take the masculinity (or femininity) of another man (or woman) into yourself because you feel that you lack it. It’s ALWAYS futile, but it’s like a band-aid over the psychic wounds of a same-sex attracted person. That’s what I’ve discovered about myself.

THIS PART ISN’T ADDRESSED TO SCOUT BUT TO OTHERS:
I’m sure that those who are “repulsed” by people who are same-sex attracted are already praying for my demise to go to hell for all eternity. Those who are revolted by the fact that I didn’t develop properly and would if I could wish that I would die right now so I could begin my eternal torment. I give thanks to God that He isn’t YOU and that He loves me, in spite of my sin and temptations. I also thank God that people like YOU aren’t in charge of the Church but that the Holy Spirit has led people like JP2 and Benedict XVI to take an approach that is based on the Gospel and not on one’s “revulsion.”

Let’s not forget one of the acts of St. Francis, who, when confronted by a leper on the way, got off his horse and embraced that leper, in spite of his revulsion towards leprosy. WOULD that more Christians, would do the same for a person with SSA.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

The order in which threads are displayed is based on the time of the last post. The only “volume” that it speaks is that this thread is asking people to reveal deeply personal information that many would rather not.

There’s more to it than that. Some people are also trying to encourage people who struggle in this thread. What I see in other threads could be summed up as “GOD HATES YOU IF YOU’RE SSA! ALLELUIA! SO DO I!” “SSA PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BURN IN HELL! PRAISE GOD!” or “THERE IS NO HOPE FOR A PERSON WITH SSA. THEY ARE INCAPABLE OF SALVATION! GLORY TO GOD FOR THAT!”

 

[Timidity]

LCMS_No_More:

There’s more to it than that. Some people are also trying to encourage people who struggle in this thread.

I disagree. I think many see the thread title and think “there’s a question I don’t want to address in public”, so they don’t even enter the thread.

Of course, I might be self-projecting, but I don’t think so.

 

[contemplative]

LCMS_No_More:

Those who are revolted by the fact that I didn’t develop properly

Let’s not forget one of the acts of St. Francis, who, when confronted by a leper on the way, got off his horse and embraced that leper, in spite of his revulsion towards leprosy. WOULD that more Christians, would do the same for a person with SSA.

This story about St. Fancis is a good one to remember when anyone is tempted to show revulsion to someone who is obviously struggling with being a better person or with sickness or handicap.

This reminds me of when my kids were really little. I used a public bathroom which was occupied with many women. In the midst of all these females was a male obviously in drag as a female. This alarmed me more than repulsed me. I think sometimes feelings of defensiveness and alarm are mistakenly labeled revulsion or distaste and repugnence.
My reaction of defensiveness and alarm were justified as I stood with my young daughters in the women’s bathroom. Those same feelings wouldn’t be justified outside on a public sidewalk.

 

[felra]

Scout:

I think most Christians are homophobic, whether they admit it or not. When one uses words like “revulsion”, “prey” and “repulsive”, it doesn’t seem to send up signals of love and compassion for the individuals struggling with SSA.

Scout :tiphat:

Uhmmmm, just exactly what adjectives would you use to supercoat/sterilize your gut reaction to the reality of [deviant, unnatural, aberrant, perverted, disordered] gay sexual expression? (Note: discussing the behavior is entirely different and has nothing to do with the person afflicted with and struggling with SSA, so please do try to merge the two and accuse me/others of being judgment, unloving, un-Christian, hateful, condemning the person).

It sounds like you have slipped into the current politically correct camp of nomenclature. And guess who is driving the politically correct language used to discuss such “rev______” and “rep______” behavior? The same tactics are used by the proponents of abortion. Control the language to influence the perception of reality and to shape the debate.

 

[Scout]

felra:

Uhmmmm, just exactly what adjectives would you use to supercoat/sterilize your gut reaction to the reality of [deviant, unnatural, aberrant, perverted, disordered] gay sexual expression? (Note: discussing the behavior is entirely different and has nothing to do with the person afflicted with and struggling with SSA, so please do try to merge the two and accuse me/others of being judgment, unloving, un-Christian, hateful, condemning the person).

It sounds like you have slipped into the current politically correct camp of nomenclature. And guess who is driving the politically correct language used to discuss such “rev______” and “rep______” behavior? The same tactics are used by the proponents of abortion. Control the language to influence the perception of reality and to shape the debate.

Ummm-how about not using the words at all? When you describe a disease as repulsive and perverted, whether you like it or not, you’re affecting the person with the disease. And SSA is a disease.

You speak of “sterilizing” your reaction. How about just changing your heart towards people who struggle with this. You’re not going to change anybody’s heart or lead anyone to Christ by describing their actions as “repulsive” and “deviant”. If you really weren’t judgemental and really loved these people who struggle with this, then I don’t think you’d be using these words. If a friend of yours had cancer, you wouldn’t describe the disease he had as “deviant and unnatural” to them, would you? No, you’d put your arms around them, love them and try to help them in any way that you can. You wouldn’t run away, repulsed from them, afraid you might catch it.

And I don’t believe I’m being politically correct. I have a view of this situation that you do not. I can see both sides of the question. I know what it’s like to struggle with SSA and feel like everyone around you is judging you for a disease that you are fighting hard against, and yet no one will come and fight with you.

Scout :tiphat:

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I agree with you, Scout. I think the Church sets a great standard when it comes to what kind of language we should use in this area. The HARSHEST thing said is in the CCC at paragraph 2357:

“Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’ They are contrary to the natural law.”

The acts are intrinsically disordered and contrary to the natural law. That’s as harsh as the Church gets.

In 2358, it says that the INCLINATION is objectively disordered. I absolutely AGREE with that…especially when understand that the Catechism is coming from two approaches: philosophical and theological. The Church is not making a psychological diagnosis as she says this in the previous paragraph: " Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained." There are theories about how SSA comes about in a person. I find that my experience makes me partial to Moberly’s theory. There are others, too (van Aardweg (sp?) has another interesting theory). I would tend to think that there are a variety of factors involved, which is why it’s so difficult to pin down.

Let’s stick to the standard of the Church and I think we’ll stay out of all kinds of trouble that people, acting out of their own concupiscence, tend to get into.

 

[felra]

Scout:

Ummm-how about not using the words at all? When you describe a disease as repulsive and perverted, whether you like it or not, you’re affecting the person with the disease. And SSA is a disease.

You speak of “sterilizing” your reaction. How about just changing your heart towards people who struggle with this. You’re not going to change anybody’s heart or lead anyone to Christ by describing their actions as “repulsive” and “deviant”. If you really weren’t judgemental and really loved these people who struggle with this, then I don’t think you’d be using these words. If a friend of yours had cancer, you wouldn’t describe the disease he had as “deviant and unnatural” to them, would you? No, you’d put your arms around them, love them and try to help them in any way that you can. You wouldn’t run away, repulsed from them, afraid you might catch it.

And I don’t believe I’m being politically correct. I have a view of this situation that you do not. I can see both sides of the question. I know what it’s like to struggle with SSA and feel like everyone around you is judging you for a disease that you are fighting hard against, and yet no one will come and fight with you.

Scout :tiphat:

Thanks for reading into my heart. But really, if a person is struggling with a disorder, which entails not to act out on this disorder, would they not agree that giving into and giving expression to this disorder (disordered desire) is discusting and repulsive? I would hope that they are not shielding themselves from the full reality of such a depressing lifestyle. This is why folks wishing to refrain from relapsing into a former undesireable behavior (driven by addition, disordered desire, psychological disorder, etc) do themselves a favor to recall (keep insight, in mind) the dark and depressing and repulsive aspects to act as a deterrent and reinforcer to prevent a relapse.

The reason I originally responded to your post was to offer my experience and observation to explain why folks react to the lifestyle and phenomenon of SSA. But, now I am being mischaracterized and categorized (demonized?). Talk about shutting down an honest and gut level exchange.

However, I see that I do need to exercise consideration that this may be counterproductive to some CA folks and where they are at in their journey to wholeness in Christ. I apologize to those folks, and I did not mean to offend. I will unplug myself from this thread.

 

[contemplative]

When I was a kid there was a family I knew from my church community. I LOVED the children in that family…they were my friends! When it became public knowledge that the ‘dad’ in the family took off with another woman ( from the parish no less) I was initially angery and then I was repulsed by the ‘dad’ and his deviant behaviour. My childhood friends moved away but he ‘dad’ was left in the parish with is new lover. Still to this day I am repulsed by this man and the memory of his deviant action of abandoning his children.

I think it is normal to categorize feelings and apply them to various sins.

Often times I have strong feelings associated with sins. Those feelings are most productive when I identify my own sinfulness. Feelings of repulsion or revulsion help prevent me from sinning. If feelings of repulsion keeps me from loving someone then that is wrong…love the sinner not the sin.

 

[contemplative]

felra:

However, I see that I do need to exercise consideration that this may be counterproductive to some CA folks and where they are at in their journey to wholeness in Christ. I apologize to those folks, and I did not mean to offend. I will unplug myself from this thread.

I don’t see any need to unplug yourself. Your discussion has been profitable. There is no need to apologize.
The term ‘homophobic Christian’ has always been rather offensive to me but somehow this thread is changing that.
I believe some people’s gut reaction to homosexuality in general is repulsion. Overall I believe we are all called to show mercy for the afflicted. Mercy is the greatest task Christians are called to. Generally Christians are called to be merciful to all sinners as Jesus is merciful to all.
The name homophobic may be a blanket term for all those who are simply repulsed by homosexuality rather than merciful.
Merciful Christian is what I would rather be. I like that name - Merciful Christian.
But can I live up to it? Tough one.

 

[Viajero]

Yeah, I’m Catholic, and I struggle with same-sex attraction. I’m in my late 30s and had lived completely in the “gay lifestyle” during my late 20s and early 30s, while still considering myself a “devout” Catholic. Although I’m now dismayed by what I consider a lack of proper catechesis on sexual ethics in some parishes, I can definitely see how God can still use them in calling sinners to conversion. I now seek “orthodox” priests and parishes, because I do want to know the complete truth of what the Church (and hence, God) teaches. And sure enough, God has blessed me with such priests and Catholic friends to help guide me further along in my spiritual journey.

I’m not sure it would’ve worked out as well if the priests at my parish, when I was in my 20s, used words like “repulsive” and “disgusting” back then. I definitely needed to hear that God loved me, despite my having this disorder. Now, however, I have no problem admitting that the things I’ve done WERE repulsive and disgusting. Now, however, I no longer identify myself by the sins I commit. Jesus has freed me, and all of us, from the bondage of sin. I still sin (not in the same manner, though) because I’m weak, but weakness can be overcome, by God’s grace. And through the Church, graces abound.

 

[PureGrace]

Viajero:

Yeah, I’m Catholic, and I struggle with same-sex attraction. I’m in my late 30s and had lived completely in the “gay lifestyle” during my late 20s and early 30s, while still considering myself a “devout” Catholic. Although I’m now dismayed by what I consider a lack of proper catechesis on sexual ethics in some parishes, I can definitely see how God can still use them in calling sinners to conversion. I now seek “orthodox” priests and parishes, because I do want to know the complete truth of what the Church (and hence, God) teaches. And sure enough, God has blessed me with such priests and Catholic friends to help guide me further along in my spiritual journey.

I love your story. Why did you decide to make turn towards chastity?

And to everyone else who is discussing the “feelings” staright people may have when encountering homosexual activity…

The word homophobia, as we all know, mean to be fearful of homosexuals. I am certainly not afraid of my friend who has SSA. If I was, why on earth would he be my best friend?You cannot apply a word that means “Fear of a homosexual person” to describe digust of homosexual acts-to do so would be illogical.

Despite my love for my friend, I do become uncomfortable when I encounter my friend’s boyfriend. I hurt when I think of the sin he may be involved in…It really hurts…

I would think that it is only natural that we may experince a type of repulsion to homosexual acts…Since God gave us the gift of our sexuality, it is only natural that we are disturbed by uses of the sexual faculty that contradict God’s divine purpose…And if we feel hurt by this abuse, imagine how God must feel…Are we not admonished to reject sin? Yes, we are, but we are also instructed to love the sinner.

The feelings I most often get when I encounter homosexuality, especially in respect to my friend’s actions are not so much disgust (I do agree that homosexual acts are disgusting and repulsive, but this does not make me homophobic!!!!) as uncomfort, hurt, and sorrow. Because he means so much to me, I care and hurt as any person would when they see their friend in a spiritually, emotionally, and physically unhealthy situation.

Let us all remeber that we are all guilty in some way of abusing God’s great gift of sexuality. Who here has not lusted? How many of us have used artificial birth control, looked at pornogarphy, engaged in an unappropriate relationship with a person of the opposite sex…the list goes on…I do understand that there are certain sins that “cry out to Heaven” (Sodomy being one of them), but as Jesus said to those who were accusing the woman caught in adultery, “Let those among you who have not sinned cast the first stone.” We need to work with one another to overcome which ever sexual sin(s) holds us captive…

We truly can learn from one another…We know that we need Jesus to overcome all sin, but I think that the involvment of other human beings in overcoming sin, especially sexual sins, is very important. CAF itself attests to this…so many of us post threads that concern some aspect of a sexual struggle or address a sexual question. I know that my friend’s presence has taught me many things about my own sexuality…It is through my relationship with him that I have recently begun to comprehend how we must look at one another not as an object of sexual desire, but as a child of God…I am seeing how a pure, platonic freindship can lead me closer to Christ…Only a few nights ago, I was graced with an insight into how imporatant it is for a man and a woman to love God above one another.

You know, I think that that this the answer to all of our sexual problems…“straight” or “gay”, we need to remeber to love God before any human being…if we do, we will learn to appreciate our sexuality and use it to glorify God’s purpose…We are all still learning and struggling in our own ways. Those with SSA may have a greater struggle than most of us, but where suffering and sin abounds (I am not meaning to imply that all who suffer with SSA are sexually sinning…as we can see from this thread, many are choosing to live a life of chastity ), God’s grace abounds even more…Homosexual persons have the priveledge of becoming very close to God in a very special way…We all have vocations, but theirs is quite unique…and is most certainly a very very difficult calling.

Please refrain from calling people homophobic. Please continue to be kind and caring on this thread.

I love you all,
Katherine

 

[Scout]

I wasn’t calling anyone specific homophobic, it’s just my experience that most Christians are homophobic to some degree, whether they think they are or not. And believe me, I have had a ton of experience in this.
Scout :tiphat:

 

[contemplative]

PureGrace:

Please refrain from calling people homophobic. Please continue to be kind and caring on this thread.

Among the attributes of God, although they are all equal,mercy shines with even more brilliance than justice.
Miguel de Cervantes 17th century writer

 

[PureGrace]

Scout:

I wasn’t calling anyone specific homophobic, it’s just my experience that most Christians are homophobic to some degree, whether they think they are or not. And believe me, I have had a ton of experience in this.
Scout :tiphat:

If that is your experience (Your expereice is about eleven years more than my own… ), perhaps you are correct…but with all due respect, have you met enough Christains to deduce that most are indeed homophobic? I just point out that any one person’s experience with a group of people and their views does not necessarily mean that most among all existing persons in that group share those views…It simply means that in your experience most do.

I may not be correct in this suggestion, but it may be that what some people perceive of as homophobia is actually some person’s uncertainty or discomfort in the presense of a homosexual person. Often times, the way we actaully feel inside and what we project to the world to not often jive. It is important to remember that discomfort and uncertainty do not equate fear or hate. People express confusion, doubt, uncertainty, and hurt in many different ways - Have any one of you ever had someone ask you if you were ill because you displayed such and such a symptom when in reality your were only tired or stressed?. I guess what I am trying to say is that unless a person says directly that they fear homosexual persons, we should not assume by their behavior that they do.

Once again, I am not accusing you of making any assumptions like the ones as I have suggested…It could very well be that the majority of Christains you are aquainted with are indeed fearful of homosexuals.

But guys, is this thread really about definig homophobia or accusing any person of it? If I recall correctly, Contemplative requested that all who particpate in this thread should be sensitive and considerate to persons who are struggling with SSA. This thread is about a place to discuss SSA with love and concern. Let us not turn this thread into a debate on who is, who may be, and who is not homophobic. If anyone would like to discuss homophobia, it is my humble opinion that this thread is not the appropriate place.

You know, I very much dislike the term “homophobic”. It is overused and misused so often and flung around this way and that like a feather in a turbulent wind tunnel.

So let us keep this thread on task…

Peace to you all,
Katherine Anne

 

[contemplative]

PureGrace:

You know, I very much dislike the term “homophobic”. It is overused and misused so often and flung around this way and that like a feather in a turbulent wind tunnel.

So let us keep this thread on task…

Peace to you all,
Katherine Anne

Thank you Katherine Anne

I was thinking how much more difficult it must be for someone who is in a long-time SS relationship to change. How much do some have to give up? A shared home? Shared income? Financial security? Emotional security of someone familiar? Maybe even shared children? Making a change must seem like a difficult task.
Giving up everything for All…The Pearl of Great Worth.
All week the Gospel readings have been about finding The Great Treasure.

 

[Pug]

I think some people would be chicken to post on a thread asking if you suffer from SSA.

Okay, so here is a question for you SSA folks: what exactly does it mean to be SSA. I know this sounds dumb! No one has to tell me this. I’m not asking what it means to act on any of the SSA. I’m just asking what must go through one’s head to qualify. I mean, does it mean you spend time looking at the same sex or admiring their various qualities or does it only mean that you look at them and simultaneously want them in some way? By want I mean any type of wanting, not only that kind of want.

If you have SSA, does this mean you never look at the opposite sex for any non-practical reason? Is there some type of analysis that is in your head for the one and not for the other?

 

[contemplative]

Pug:

I think some people would be chicken to post on a thread asking if you suffer from SSA.

I mean, does it mean you spend time looking at the same sex or admiring their various qualities or does it only mean that you look at them and simultaneously want them in some way? By want I mean any type of wanting, not only that kind of want.

If you have SSA, does this mean you never look at the opposite sex for any non-practical reason? Is there some type of analysis that is in your head for the one and not for the other?

Actually this thread is about the struggles of those who are Catholic and struggle with SSA. Some have answered this question with great depth and sincerity already.

 

[alterserver_07]

I have never had these troubles, but I know some people that do. They cannot act on them at all, they have to live a chaste life. It is a huge sacrifice, but it is all for God and the reward will be great.