Do you struggle with same-sex attraction?

[PureGrace]

contemplative:

Thank you Katherine Anne

I was thinking how much more difficult it must be for someone who is in a long-time SS relationship to change. How much do some have to give up? A shared home? Shared income? Financial security? Emotional security of someone familiar? Maybe even shared children? Making a change must seem like a difficult task.
Giving up everything for All…The Pearl of Great Worth.
All week the Gospel readings have been about finding The Great Treasure.

Interesting that you should mention that about the Gospel readings…I have noticed the very same thing over the past two weeks…but it makes me feel very unworthy of heaven…

Peace,
Katherine

 

[Pug]

contemplative:

Actually this thread is about the struggles of those who are Catholic and struggle with SSA. Some have answered this question with great depth and sincerity already.

Yes, I know! If I have offended, I apologize! I heard what LCMS_No_More said, for example:

I ask myself, okay, what is it about him that I am attracted to. It’s NOT his “package” that is drawing me. In most cases, I find that my thoughts don’t even GO there. I find myself studying certain attributes of what makes him masculine.

I was merely trying to verbalize what sort of questions about the issue that come up for me. I do not label myself SSA, but I do not really understand how their thoughts differ from mine, so that they are SSA and I am not. I could have written the last sentence that is in that quote above. I guess the question that I most wonder is the last one I asked:

Is there some type of analysis that is in your head for the same sex person and not for the opposite sex person? I have difficulty seeing much difference between my own analysis of each sex in my head. I can’t pin this thing down.

I meant no offense. It is for me I asked. And I was chicken to post on the thread. Who wants to admit they are too stupid to understand why they themselves are not called SSA? (I don’t want to admit that, anyway).

 

[Struggling]

" I mean, does it mean you spend time looking at the same sex or admiring their various qualities or does it only mean that you look at them and simultaneously want them in some way? By want I mean any type of wanting, not only that kind of want."

Yes, it must include wanting, and indeed that type of wanting.

There is a difference between having a weak-masculine-identity and same sex attraction…though often the first leads to the latter.

Bluntly put, it means that men give me an erection and women don’t. They are sexually exciting to think about or look at erotically, and is romantically exciting to look at non-erotically.

I can get major crushes on guys, and find my eyes and my thoughts drawn to them more.

If you have SSA, does this mean you never look at the opposite sex for any non-practical reason? Is there some type of analysis that is in your head for the one and not for the other?

Well, I think what LCMS was talking about, please correct me if I’m wrong, is that he realizes that the ROOT of his sexual attraction is not actually sexual in the end. It doesn’t mean that he isn’t, in fact, aroused by men or that he doesn’t fall in love with them…but he realizes that his ulimate longing is not for this…but for masculine affirmation.

As for women, I definitely look at women and analyze their attractiveness, I can even have a hypothetical “crush” on a girl…but there is no passion behind it. No rush of excitement-fear-obsessive-desire…its more of a cold, rational thought…like “Yeah, she’s very pretty…so what?”…but that is slowly changing.

 

[World_Citizen]

Hello people! I thought it nicest to introduce myself to you all and hopefully be a informative part of this discussion. I am a 46 year old Gay male that has been in a wonderful 11 year relationship . I am a spiritual citizen of this world but not one that feels the need to join in the concept of “orgainized” religious groups. I respect the “orgainized” groups that have been thoughout our history and only have hope that the same respect is given to me. I often marvel at the discussion of sexuality and the views that others have of what they are not familiar with. Frankly, I have not had this same curiosity of those that might be of a different sexual birth but am happy to enlighten these people and hopefully educate them concerning something they seem to need answers to. So that said, I would love to be able to converse with those here who have questions of me and I only ask that folks here try to not preach to me as I promise not to try to convert anyone to my sexual birth. Wishing all a fabulous day!

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Is there some type of analysis that is in your head for the same sex person and not for the opposite sex person? I have difficulty seeing much difference between my own analysis of each sex in my head. I can’t pin this thing down.

It’s a fair question but not one that I’m sure any honest person with SSA can answer with any certainty. Why? Simply because a person with SSA doesn’t know how you, an OSA person, thinks. I can only speak to what goes through my own mind when I see a man with certain attributes.

I meant no offense. It is for me I asked. And I was chicken to post on the thread. Who wants to admit they are too stupid to understand why they themselves are not called SSA? (I don’t want to admit that, anyway).

No, but you took a moment to try and see things from the point of view from another. That’s more than I can say for a lot of people (especially the ones who are just so happy that they aren’t so they can pridefully and piously throw stones at those who are–you know who you are ).

 

[contemplative]

World Citizen:

I am a spiritual citizen of this world !

Welcome World Citizen!

Thank you for chiming into this discussion. You say this about yourself “I am a spiritual citizen of this world”. The question I pose at the top of the thread is Are you Catholic and struggle with same-sex attraction? Can you share your struggles and difficulties in your life because of SSA?

Supposing you are a Baptized Catholic then you couldn’t possibly be a spiritual citizen of this world. Jesus says this in John 17:13-14

But now I am coming to you. I speak this in the world so that they may share my joy completely.

I gave them your word, and the world hated them, because they do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.

Catholics try to imitate Jesus in all ways. More than once in the Gospels Jesus states that he is not of this world.

"When we are baptized, we are enlightened. Being enlightened, we are adopted as sons. Adopted as sons, we are made perfect. Made perfect, we become immortal . . . ‘and sons of the Most High’ [Ps. 82:6] Clement of Alexandria

Again, supposing you are a Baptized Catholic then you are an adopted son of Jesus. Jesus was not of this world and neither are His adopted sons and daughters.

So on that note, welcome again and although your screen name is World Citizen and you state that you are a spiritual citizen of this world please remember this thread was started for Catholics struggling or perhaps not struggling with SSA.

I would like to add that in recent years I have celebrated the day of my Baptism with greater joy and enthusiasm than the day of my birth into this world. I delight most in the day of my Baptism. On that day I became a daughter of the Most High.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

If you have SSA, does this mean you never look at the opposite sex for any non-practical reason? Is there some type of analysis that is in your head for the one and not for the other?

Well, I think what LCMS was talking about, please correct me if I’m wrong, is that he realizes that the ROOT of his sexual attraction is not actually sexual in the end. It doesn’t mean that he isn’t, in fact, aroused by men or that he doesn’t fall in love with them…but he realizes that his ulimate longing is not for this…but for masculine affirmation.

At first, the initial reaction can be sexual, but I almost always pull myself out of that and analyze the situation so I can figure out what is drawing me to him. It’s usually someTHING that I sense about the guy (sometimes it’s not even something I can SEE, just the demeanor) that draws me towards him. I’m getting better about pulling myself out and analyzing the situation.

Of course, some would say that that “drawing” is itself a sin. It’s not. It’s actually the good that is perverted by the sexual aspects of homosexuality. It’s a good thing for men to associate with and relate to other men, but it’s perverted when it becomes eroticized.

God didn’t make us to be solitary creatures. A man needs the company and acceptance of other men in order to feel affirmed in their manhood. That’s what has been blocking me from developing that into what I should have been. That fear of being ridiculed or mocked, due to several traumas of my youth, is what keeps me on the outside.

There’s so much I could say about this, but I’m not sure what I’d get from some people…especially the stone throwers who’d love nothing more than to see people like me tossed head-first into the Lake of Fire. It’s so discouraging sometimes when I read some of the posts by people around here about the topic of SSA.

 

[contemplative]

LCMS_No_More:

God didn’t make us to be solitary creatures. A man needs the company and acceptance of other men in order to feel affirmed in their manhood. That’s what has been blocking me from developing that into what I should have been. That fear of being ridiculed or mocked, due to several traumas of my youth, is what keeps me on the outside.

I can’t help but think of this particular clipart and Psalm 132 when I read this paragraph of yours.

Behold how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity:
Like the precious ointment on the head, that ran down upon the beard, the beard of Aaron, Which ran down to the skirt of his garment:
As the dew of Hermon, which descendeth upon mount Sion. For there the Lord hath commanded blessing, and life for evermore.

 

[World_Citizen]

To clear the question of my spirituality vs. affiliation to an orgainized religion I in honesty must say that I was baptized and raised Roman Catholic. Rather than choosing to be an alacarte Catholic I at an adult age chose to follow my heart.
I thought that this discussion was concerning Catholics that may be having a struggle with their sexuality, namely the question of Same Sex attraction? Is this discussion open only to Catholics? Only Roman Catholic? I also may be so humble as to ask why the question is “stuggle”? Has anyone looked at the root of this struggle and the actual origins of the historic condemnation of same-sex “attraction” aside from Old Testament laws that many learned people know to actally be reminants of ancient tribal laws.
I have always been amazed that modern Church has placed itself into the middle what should be a private and personal matter. I have never seen a rally held or one papal message sent out to the world that raises the question over wheather all married men and women are indulging in only the “missionary” position when having sexual intercourse . And that is saying without a doubt that this sexual activity is being performed with the desire and hope only of producing a baby.
So with the question of my religious affiliation answered I still hope to be able to take part in this discussion. Although I do not “struggle” with my sexuality and my relationship to God I may be a source of answers to people here who want to truly and fully discuss this question.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

World Citizen, in order to give you a good education on what the Church ACTUALLY has to say about sexuality as a whole, I recommend you read the following part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I know that many people have misunderstandings about what the Church says about these topics and why, so this might be a good read for you.

The Church’s teaching on homosexuality can be found in that link at paragraphs 2357-2359 (don’t worry, the link I gave you starts at paragraph 2331, so it’s not THAT long of a section. Read it as a whole (the whole section, not just the part on homosexuality) and you’ll hopefully see the beauty and harmony that the teaching, as a whole, truly has.

 

[Pug]

Struggling:

There is a difference between having a weak-masculine-identity and same sex attraction…though often the first leads to the latter.

Hmm. Okay, I needed to hear this.

No rush of excitement-fear-obsessive-desire…its more of a cold, rational thought…like “Yeah, she’s very pretty…so what?”…but that is slowly changing.

I haven’t felt that “rush of excitement” thing in so long that I think that is partly why I find it (SSA) puzzling. Currently both women and men get a blah reaction from me, whether for good or ill, I have no idea.

 

[World_Citizen]

Again I say that I was raised Catholic. The key work being WAS.
I know that the Church of Rome has plenty to say about sexuality as well as many other teachings concerning the daily lives of Catholics.I am not questioning the beliefs of Catholic or any other religious group. I only wanted to state that I am #1 a spiritual person, #2 a “not-struggling” Gay man and #3 a God loving citizen of this world, by the way a world of the Almighty’s creation.
Within many religions one can find all sorts of rules and regulations that over the centries have dissolved and have been found to be "misintepreded from their original sources. A recent example being the southern American’s use of Old Testiment to justify the rights to own slaves. Even then there were many who were able to “use” the Holy Bible to justify their needs and bigotry. Gladly there have always been those that are enlightened and these terrible misinterpretations have gone away.
Again, I am here only to be part in the question of “struggle” not to be “taught” or coverted to a idiology.I happily would answer questions concerning my lack of “struggle” . Question concerning how and why I am Happy and at peace with our God.I can say that most my happinesss in my life is because I most focus on what God made “whole and complete” about me and not what others claim to be my faults.I would hope that this discussion was to be just that, a discussion. A discussion with not just preaching and high browed attitude. I wish all a fabulous day!

 

[contemplative]

World Citizen, in order to give you a good education on what the Church ACTUALLY has to say about sexuality as a whole, I recommend you read the following part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I know that many people have misunderstandings about what the Church says about these topics and why, so this might be a good read for you.

World Citizen,
Did you read what LCMS_No_More suggested? Is there something in this suggested chapter of Catechism of the Catholic Church. that you would like to remark or ask questions about? This might be helpful and useful to our discussion. Or perhaps you could site some of your comments so that we could review them better and discuss.

 

[World_Citizen]

Contemplative, Did you read what I posted? I think I made it clear that I was able and intersted in answering questions as to why I do not “struggle” and am happy with my sexuality. I think if you were reading my posting with an open mind you might have noticed that I am not interested in taking apart or reviewing the Catholic church or any other church for that matter. I see as usual and expected that this is not really an honest or open discussion of one’s struggles with Gay sexuality but rather just one of many methods of trying to covert or “change” Gay people.Sadly places like this often pry on the confused and the misinformed, the methods of CULTS. Again I still wish all here a fabulous day.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

How in the world can you come to that conclusion when all that is being asked of you is to look at what the Church actually has to say on the topic so we can discuss the issue from a common frame of reference.

If you disagree with it, fine, that’s your choice and most of us will respect your choice. We will tell you why we disagree with you and engage you in a debate.

That’s what people do here…discuss and throw ideas back and forth, but you need to realize that his is a Catholic board.

 

[contemplative]

World Citizen:

Contemplative, Did you read what I posted? I think I made it clear that I was able and intersted in answering questions as to why I do not “struggle” and am happy with my sexuality. I think if you were reading my posting with an open mind you might have noticed that I am not interested in taking apart or reviewing the Catholic church or any other church for that matter. I see as usual and expected that this is not really an honest or open discussion of one’s struggles with Gay sexuality but rather just one of many methods of trying to covert or “change” Gay people.Sadly places like this often pry on the confused and the misinformed, the methods of CULTS. Again I still wish all here a fabulous day.

Ok,
You are a gay spiritual citizen of this world who WAS a Catholic.
Who doesn’t believe in the perspective of sexuality of the Catholic Church and some other organized religions.
You actually think this thread is to pry on confused and mininformed
You think the ‘method’ is cult like
and you are open to honest discussion about how you are comfortable with your sexuality.
Is there anything else you can share on this forum that might be helpful?
Again I ask you to please site some of your claims further up in the thread. That would be helpful.
So far the discussion is open and honest.

 

[World_Citizen]

Thank you both for your honest responses to my posting. I understand now that #1This is really a Catholic discusion. #2opposing views will always be countered with MAN written doctorine.
#3This is NOT really a discussion about Catholics struggling with Same Sex Attraction rather this is supposed to be a source of lessons on Why being born Gay is in opposision to Gods creation and therefore sinnful.
I am sure that many will say"hate the sin…not the sinner’ and once again I say where is there sin in one’s love for another person? I question the motive of anyone here on Earth or any Church that claims the right to define sin. These are my TRUTHS. I would place a bet to anyone that most here should run fast if Stone throwing were to start concerning their own hidden and past “sins”. Christ himself spoke on just that subject. I guess that I really am not welcomed here and that this continual preaching will not be of any use to me since I AM A CONTENT,HAPPY AND LOVING GAY MAN.
By the way, I did not think this was a “debate” Debates end with one party being a winner? That does not seem to be a discussion. I again say that I wanted to share my abilty to happy and not "struggling.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I am sure that many will say"hate the sin…not the sinner’ and once again I say where is there sin in one’s love for another person?

Let’s get a something straight before we continue in this area love has more than one meaning and when discussing the topic in a religious context, it is helpful to understand that there are four kinds of love that we talk about:

1. eros, or erotic love
2. storge, or family love
3. phileo, or brotherly/friendship love
4. agape, or divine/perfect love

Sharing phileo with a member of the same sex is not a sin and, in fact, is a VERY GOOD thing. It can be perverted from the intent that God has for it when it morphs into eros.

I question the motive of anyone here on Earth or any Church that claims the right to define sin. These are my THRUTHS.

In other words, there are absolutely no absolutes.

I would place a bet to anyone that most here should run fast if Stone throwing were to start concerning their own hidden and past “sins”.

Agreed. I’m the first one to bring that up. You think this topic is “anti-gay?” This thread is downright FRIENDLY compared to some I’ve read around here.

Christ himself spoke on just that subject. I guess that I really am not welcomed here and that this continual preaching will not be of any use to me since I AM A CONTENT,HAPPY AND LOVING GAY MAN.

Your choice. I respect that. But telling you what we believe and why is not preaching. If you came to an orthodox Catholic board expecting to be affirmed in what we believe is a sin, then you’ve come to the wrong place. If you want to discuss these things in an open and fair discussion, the feel free. I, for one, welcome the opportunity to discuss the issues with you.

However, as a person who IS same-sex attracted, I can tell you that I was not “born this way.” Yes, I have been SSA since I can remember. That doesn’t mean that I was “born this way.” Does the Church demand that I change my orientation? Nope. Not at all (regardless of what some people think, the Catholic Church has NO requirement for homosexual persons to undergo “reparative therapy”). What the Church requires is that I conform my life to that of Christ and live a chaste life. That’s it. That’s not complicated. It’s difficult, but not complicated.

Now, since I’ve stopped expressing my SSA in through my genitals, I’ve discovered a LOT of things about myself that I need to know. I bet if you did the same and prayerfully asked God for guidance, He’d also show you a LOT about yourself that you need to know, too.

Pax Christi

 

[contemplative]

I guess that I really am not welcomed here

No one has not welcomed you.

It would be nice though if you could read this suggested chapter of Catechism of the Catholic Church
or at least site the accusations you are flinging all over here.
Maybe you could site some of the information you have shared. CAforums strongly suggests using good sources to backup information.
You just seem to be scraping through this thread without really listening or truly responding to anyone else.

 

[World_Citizen]

LCMS NO MORE, I truly wish you the best in your "choice " to be chaste. I disagree about the “not born” that way but you are entitled to your beliefs. I believe that I was born whole , perfect and complete in Gods plan for me and my life. I do not believe the Churchs that say otherwise. I guess I was under the wrong impression when I filled out my membership to this site. I saw that there was a place for “others” under the "your religion spot and wrongly that that this was a place for open honest discussion from any person, not just Roman Catholics. My mistake! I wish all here the best in their lives and I hope that your days are filled with love and contentment.For those who are struggling with their sexuality you must know that there are options in your life. God only will judge us all, not any one man sitting on a throne in Rome or any one writer of what he decided to interpret of old scrolls